Clone Beer Founder's Breakfast Stout Clone

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jawilson20 said:
Yeah that is the gist of what I got after reading the thread.

Now for a question on aging, I really would like to have this guy drinkable by mid November. Reading the comments it sounds like the coffee needs sometime to mellow out. What do you think of skipping the second coffee addtion?
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I honestly think it's the 1st coffee addition that needed stepped back.

I did beans that were extremely roughly chopped. Just enough to bust a whole bean into 2 or 3 parts. I did those in bourbon with nibs, and barrel oak chips..

The aroma and flavor is there, the bitterness from the coffee late in the boil is what needed dropped back to make a difference.
 
If you use clean, filtered water to do the cold steep coffee, you are OK. You will be putting the coffee and water (small amount) into 7-8% alcohol solution, which should kill any small nasties.

If you are worried, you can always brew a pot of coffee with normal hot or boiling water and use this instead of cold steeped.

My personal experiment this year was to go back to my old method of "dry beaning" the beer with 4oz of whole coffee beans after 5-7 days of primary fermentation. It may add less flavor, but it will bump the aroma. You could also consider this method.

Cheers,
~Adam
 
Yesterday I made this recipe for my first all grain brew. With the classic 10 gallon Rubbermaid MLT and calculated 6.69 gallon mash water the MLT was definitely at capacity. The wort smelled/tasted great and I hit SG 1.086@76F. Yeast started happily bubbling away within a very short time in the fermentation chamber. After a couple of days in primary I am planning to add about 1.5 oz of oak chips (sanitized in vodka), move to secondary after about two weeks. Can't wait :)
 
Good luck with it!

Mine is starting to round the corner and is tasting pretty good now. Other than the chocolate I added and the bourbon and bourbon chips, mine taste pretty close to the real deal.. The coffee is a bit more out there and maybe harsher than the real thing though.

However, mine has a wonderful head and nice tight lacing on the glass as you sip it down.
 
I've been drinking about 2 of the real thing each week for the past two weeks (came out last week, so yea). I am going to cellar a couple until our batch is ready and can do a side-by-side!

Exciting stuff.
 
I kegged my "ABS" on Sunday; OG 1.097 FG 1.023. It came off the oak, coffee beans, and I added a touch more bourbon to the keg. It's young, but was very clean. I'm excited to see how it turns out after 3 months of conditioning at room temp!

Cheers!
~Adam
 
Going to brew this recipe on Friday. I scaled the recipe up for a 6 gallon batch but reduced the base malt to target an ABV around 7.5%. Sounds like I may want to scale back the 1st coffee addition a bit? I don't want it to be too overpowering?
 
jmkratt said:
Going to brew this recipe on Friday. I scaled the recipe up for a 6 gallon batch but reduced the base malt to target an ABV around 7.5%. Sounds like I may want to scale back the 1st coffee addition a bit? I don't want it to be too overpowering?
Click to expand...

I just did a side by side with mine and the original FBS. In mine the coffee was actually muted.

I did 2oz of course ground Sumatra at flameout and 2oz of cold-steeped coffee at bottling (2oz of grounds cold steeped overnight in ~1.5 cups water).

Mine finished a couple points higher than I wanted but the extra sweetness goes really well with this beer. What a great recipe! 1.080>1.024
 
pabloj13 said:
I just did a side by side with mine and the original FBS. In mine the coffee was actually muted.

I did 2oz of course ground Sumatra at flameout and 2oz of cold-steeped coffee at bottling (2oz of grounds cold steeped overnight in ~1.5 cups water).

Mine finished a couple points higher than I wanted but the extra sweetness goes really well with this beer. What a great recipe! 1.080>1.024
Click to expand...

Awesome. I will leave it be then!

I wish I could do a side by side, no Founders in Colorado and I am weak and drink all the FBS I trade for too fast!

Thank you for the response!
 
I took a SG sample today after 16 days in primary (fermentation chamber set to 68F) and it looks like fermentation has stalled at 1.040 (OG was 1.086@76F). Any suggestions on how to restart fermentation other than shaking things up. Do I need to get/pitch another packet of S-04? Hydro sample tasted good, pronounced coffee aroma and chocolate, was hoping to get more down to 1.023. I had hit my mash temperatures pretty closely, although I am still learning as this was my first AG batch.
 
the classic thing to do is raise the temp, say to 72 or 74*F, and rouse the yeast once that temp has been achieved. did you pitch sufficient yeast? did you rehydrate the s-04? how did you aerate? 1.086 is a big beer, so one has to take extra steps to ensure complete fermentation.
 
sweetcell said:
the classic thing to do is raise the temp, say to 72 or 74*F, and rouse the yeast once that temp has been achieved. did you pitch sufficient yeast? did you rehydrate the s-04? how did you aerate? 1.086 is a big beer, so one has to take extra steps to ensure complete fermentation.
Click to expand...

I changed fermentation chamber temperature to go up to 72F and shook carboy up a bit. When I had transferred the wort into the carboy I shook it up quite a bit to aerate hoping that it would have been enough. I had not rehydrated the yeast when first adding.

If raising the temperature/shaking the carboy doesn't get the existing yeast going again would you recommend adding another package of S-04? What about having enough oxygen in the carboy for it to get started again?

Thanks for your feedback!

Heiko
 
run42beer said:
I changed fermentation chamber temperature to go up to 72F and shook carboy up a bit. When I had transferred the wort into the carboy I shook it up quite a bit to aerate hoping that it would have been enough. I had not rehydrated the yeast when first adding.

If raising the temperature/shaking the carboy doesn't get the existing yeast going again would you recommend adding another package of S-04? What about having enough oxygen in the carboy for it to get started again?

Thanks for your feedback!

Heiko
Click to expand...

You do NOT want oxygen in there now, nor is an extra packet of yeast likely to help. I would raise the temp and swirl gently to rouse the yeast. Maybe if that doesn't work, I'd make a starter and pitch it at high krausen. The problem is that the environment in your carboy is pretty inhospitable to yeast at the moment. Low oxygen, alcohol present, etc. Pitching a packet of yeast into that environment will probably not do much, but if you get the yeast going ahead of time they might have a fighting chance to lower your gravity. Oxygen introduction at this point would oxidize the beer and make it taste like wet cardboard. Any chance your mash temp was jacked up?
 
in my experience, aeration by shaking only once isn't sufficient for big beers. i've recently switch to a stone + aquarium pump setup, and i'll hit the wort 2 or 3 times in the first 24 hours after pitching. pure oxygen would be best, obviously, but i haven't graduated to that yet.

as pable said, you don't want to get any air in there at this point. if you want to stick with S-04, then rehydrate it, and start adding small amounts of the beer to it so that the yeast have time to acclimatize to. after rehydration, i would add maybe a half-cup of wort per hour for 4 or 5 hours (feel free to go slower, but keep things sanitary and keep the yeast & beer covered/protected). alternately you could use something like WLP099 which is alcohol tolerant. make a starter with it and pitch at high krausen.

in the future, you should consider rehydrating your dry yeast before pitching it. that helps ensure that the most yeasties survive re-animation and make it into your wort. also, check out mrmalty (http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html) to determine how much yeast to pitch. for your 1.086, a 5 gallon batch required 1.5 packs. so if you pitched only one, that might also explain why you didn't go as low as expected.
 
Thanks pabloj13 & sweetcell for your advice!

Looking at my brew notes I think I hit the mash temps but may have kept the wort in the MLT for 70 instead of 60 minutes before the sparge water was ready.

I moved the carboy out of the fermentation chamber into my living room where it may get up to 77-78F during the day and swirled it around a bit. Took another SG measure which came out at 1.036@76F thus decided to let it sit and see what happens (even saw a bubble make it through the air lock). I've picked up another package of S-04 but will hold off dehydrating/adding it until a couple more days in case FG doesn't go down. I suppose RDWHAHB is in order.

Thanks again for the valuable advice!

Heiko - still learning :)
 
spending extra time in the mash isn't going to hurt, in fact it can only help. so your 70 vs 60 isn't an issue.

once your carboy has a day or two to warm up to the mid-70's, give it another swirl. right now, the wort is still cool so anything that you kicked up might settle out before things get warm. and if you're using a clear fermenter (glass or better bottle), be sure to keep your brew out of the sun. drapping a thick t-shirt over it, with the neck poking out a sleeve, is a good way of keeping the contents of your FV in the dark.
 
Yeah, like sweetcell said, a longer mash might make the wort MORE fermentable if anything. What kind of thermometer do you use? Is it calibrated? It's still dropping so that's a good sign!
 
@sweetcell & @pabloj13, thanks again.

The better bottle is well covered with a towel to keep the light out, so that the yeast can do it's thing in the dark & hops don't get affected (not bothering to do that with two carboys of Ed Wort's Apfelwein/Drunken Emu cider sitting next to it). Tomorrow or day after I'll give it another swirl to get the yeast roused after temperature has climbed a little. The hydro sample smelled/tasted good, a bit less body than I hope to end up at the end with.

I am using a standard bi-metal dial thermometer which I'd initially calibrated with ice water a while ago, will do another calibration to make sure it's still set correctly.

Heiko - trying hard to be patient on this one :)
 
Give it some time. I felt that mine had less body than I had hoped for, but to be honest... Compared to the real deal FBS, mines relatively close.. Not the milkshake I had hoped for, but hey..
 
FATC1TY said:
Give it some time. I felt that mine had less body than I had hoped for, but to be honest... Compared to the real deal FBS, mines relatively close.. Not the milkshake I had hoped for, but hey..
Click to expand...

This.

Mine tastes remarkably close to the real Breakfast Stout. GREAT recipe. I do wish it had more body, though. I'm wondering if the chocolate that I used had too much oil in it. I thought I got the kind with hardly any in it, but there is a very small oily film at the top. about half a mm on the top. Hmm...

Then again, ours is only 3 and a half weeks old.
 
So I’m going to finally brew this recipe this weekend. :mug: Any Words of advice? Besides don’t screw up. :)
 
FATC1TY said:
Give it some time. I felt that mine had less body than I had hoped for, but to be honest... Compared to the real deal FBS, mines relatively close.. Not the milkshake I had hoped for, but hey..
Click to expand...
you could add some maltodextrine at bottling (or into secondary, or at any point really) to add back some body. don't over-do it, but it could get you part of the way back to where you want to be.

Irish13 said:
So I’m going to finally brew this recipe this weekend. :mug: Any Words of advice? Besides don’t screw up. :)
Click to expand...
nothing out of the ordinary. have fun :mug:
 
^Oxygenate your wort well...pitch enough yeast....be very clean! That's my advice.

When I had transferred the wort into the carboy I shook it up quite a bit to aerate hoping that it would have been enough.
Click to expand...

I agree, shaking is not enough, especially for high gravity beers. You can only get 8ppm MAX of Oxygen into the beer by shaking, and yeast likes 8-12ppm; so you're at the bottom of the desired range if you are VERY good at shaking wort.

As advised by the other guys here, you should consider giving it time; I'd say wait until 28 days minimum at this point and hope the yeast keeps working. Your best bet is to go to get a smack pack of WLP001 or make a starter of yeast and pitch it into the fermenter at high activity. This active yeast will try to eat some more sugars.

Good luck and buy an Oxygen Stone! I recommend Williams Brewing Stainless Rod / Stone setup. $50 WELL SPENT.

~Adam
 
sweetcell said:
you could add some maltodextrine at bottling (or into secondary, or at any point really) to add back some body. don't over-do it, but it could get you part of the way back to where you want to be.


nothing out of the ordinary. have fun :mug:
Click to expand...

I thought about it, but decided to leave it be. It's around 3 months old now I think... Not sure I want to mess with it for a while and see how it turns out. It's off line right now aging in the house at 70, versus the 37 in the keezer. Plus I needed some room in there and this wasn't getting drank yet.
 
Has anyone put this recipe into Beer Calculus? I did to see how much water to use and it is saying that with the grain bill it will come in 1.107 OG(vs the 1.086 in the recipe). This is my first all grain attempt so I dont want to screw anything up. Any reason why it would show such a high OG? Also it is saying 6.7gal of water for the mash. Anyone have any issues fitting all the grain and water into a 10 gal rubbermaid cooler mash tun?
 
zeprock2 said:
Has anyone put this recipe into Beer Calculus? I did to see how much water to use and it is saying that with the grain bill it will come in 1.107 OG(vs the 1.086 in the recipe). This is my first all grain attempt so I dont want to screw anything up. Any reason why it would show such a high OG? Also it is saying 6.7gal of water for the mash. Anyone have any issues fitting all the grain and water into a 10 gal rubbermaid cooler mash tun?
Click to expand...

I didn't have any trouble in my 10 gallon cooler, but it WAS funny to do BierMuncher's Centennial Blonde after, because it was about HALF full in comparison. The Breakfast Stout definitely gets close to maxing it out. You should be good though!

Regarding beer calculus, that sounds weird that it would come out at 1.107. Is that with efficiency calculation? Seems like that might be 100% efficiency gravity. Check that I suppose.
 
Looking to make an extract version of this on Friday. I know tons of advice has been given but I had some specific questions and was hoping to get input from others who have made it, maybe even multiple times. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

1. Does coffee style really matter for primary addition. I love the smell of a vanilla creme brule and was going to use that. What type of affect would not using Sumatran mean to the beer?

2. Should I use less than the 2oz recommended? Alot of people have said that 2oz leads to a very bitter taste. Would 1 or 1.5 oz impart any flavor?

3. Should I use 2 packs of 11g s-04 or will one suffice.

4. Thinking about doing some bourbon soaked oak chips. Was thinking of soaking 2oz in 5oz of bourbon. Should I add the bourbon as well as the chips to secondary.

5. If I do the bourbon would it be prudent to skip the coffee addition to secondary.

6. If I do the coffee in secondary and don't have access to a cold press how should I put it in?

7. How long is too long for oak chips and/or coffee grounds in the secondary?

I know I've asked a bunch but any help would be invaluable.

Gerard
 
Projectfdw said:
Looking to make an extract version of this on Friday. I know tons of advice has been given but I had some specific questions and was hoping to get input from others who have made it, maybe even multiple times. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

1. Does coffee style really matter for primary addition. I love the smell of a vanilla creme brule and was going to use that. What type of affect would not using Sumatran mean to the beer?

2. Should I use less than the 2oz recommended? Alot of people have said that 2oz leads to a very bitter taste. Would 1 or 1.5 oz impart any flavor?

3. Should I use 2 packs of 11g s-04 or will one suffice.

4. Thinking about doing some bourbon soaked oak chips. Was thinking of soaking 2oz in 5oz of bourbon. Should I add the bourbon as well as the chips to secondary.

5. If I do the bourbon would it be prudent to skip the coffee addition to secondary.

6. If I do the coffee in secondary and don't have access to a cold press how should I put it in?

7. How long is too long for oak chips and/or coffee grounds in the secondary?

I know I've asked a bunch but any help would be invaluable.

Gerard
Click to expand...
1. not really, no. use whatever coffee you like, and one that will work with the oatmeal, chocolate and dark malts.
2. yes, the lower amount will impart flavor - just less of it. i'd go with 1.5. i went with the full amount and haven't noticed too much bitterness.
3. what does mrmalty tell you? i suspect that it'll be closer to 2 packs, but check with the pitching calculator first.
4. i added the bourbon too and i think it tastes great, although 5 oz is on the high side. maybe only add 2/3 or 3/4 of it?
5. entirely up to you. coffee + bourbon is a good combo to my palette, but maybe you want to highlight the bourbon more. if so, skip or cut back on coffee in secondary.
6. "cold pressed coffee" doesn't require any special equipment. it's just coffee that has been left to soak in cold (or room temp) water. after a few days, filter out the spent coffee grounds and pitch only the liquid, which will now be dark and contain all the coffee aroma and taste.
7. i've never used oak so no idea. i don't add coffee grounds to secondary, instead i used the cold steeping method (see #6). no grounds make it into secondary.
 
Thanks for the info. Hopefully I wont run into any space issues.
I checked my efficiency in Beer Calculus and it is set to 75%, so I dont know what I am doing wrong....Oh well.
 
JordanThomas said:
I didn't have any trouble in my 10 gallon cooler, but it WAS funny to do BierMuncher's Centennial Blonde after, because it was about HALF full in comparison. The Breakfast Stout definitely gets close to maxing it out. You should be good though!

Regarding beer calculus, that sounds weird that it would come out at 1.107. Is that with efficiency calculation? Seems like that might be 100% efficiency gravity. Check that I suppose.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. Hopefully I wont run into any space issues.
I checked my efficiency in Beer Calculus and it is set to 75%, so I dont know what I am doing wrong....Oh well.
 
zeprock2 said:
Thanks for the info. Hopefully I wont run into any space issues.
I checked my efficiency in Beer Calculus and it is set to 75%, so I dont know what I am doing wrong....Oh well.
Click to expand...

Do you have one of the grains in lbs instead of ounces?
 

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