All Grain - Chimay Red Clone

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pompeiisneaks

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Found this recipe out there on the intarwebs, gonna try it w/ my first run of AG This Fri nite or Sat Morning. IF I can get all the ingredients at the LHBS that is. Let me know if anything seems ridiculously out of whack:

Chimay Red Clone

10lb.(4.5kg) Maris Otter 2 row pale malt (winter barley)
4 oz. (133g) Belgian aromatic malt
.5 lb. (.23kg) Belgian Cara-Munich malt
1 oz. (28g) chocolale matl
1.5 lb. (.68kg) Belgian clear candi sugar
1.5 oz. (42g) Tettnanger @ 4% AA (bittering hop)
.25 oz. ( 7g) Styrian Goldings (flavor hop)
.25 oz.( 7g) German Hallertau Hernsbrucker (flavor hop)
1 tsp. Irish moss
Mash grains for 90 min. @ 150 deg.f (65.5C)
add bittering hops and candi sugar,
boil for 90 min,
add irish moss and flavoring hops last 15 min.,
cool and pitch Wyeast 1214

OG 1.068-1.071
Yield 5 gal. (18.9L)
FG 1.012-1.015
IBU 25
SRM 18-19
7.1% ABV

~Phil
 
Oh and one question I have too, I think I also saw on this recipe thread that you can replace 1:1 ratio any cane or beet sugar w/ belgian candi sugar, true? Is it wise to still use the belgian sugar? I'm pretty sure the LHBS has it here in SLC Ut.

~Phil
 
I've read sugar makes up only 5% of the fermentables in Chimay. The rumor is they use corn sugar too.
 
Oh and one question I have too, I think I also saw on this recipe thread that you can replace 1:1 ratio any cane or beet sugar w/ belgian candi sugar, true? Is it wise to still use the belgian sugar? I'm pretty sure the LHBS has it here in SLC Ut.

~Phil
I think you have to convert the regular sugar with an acid like lemon juice to make it an invert sugar. It's a pretty simple process where you heat the sugar and add lemon juice. If you search I'm sure you will find the recipe to do it. Basically, you are making your own invert sugar and it's a hell of a lot cheaper than buying candi sugar at the beernut for six bucks a pound or whatever it is.
 
Actually, since he's doing a 90 minute boil, plain beet sugar will invert automatically in the acidic wort.
 
Things are going pretty well for my first AG tonite... the LHBS messed me up a bit, learned a lesson there, they said "OK give me the recipe, I'll make sure you have everythign you need... they didn't give me yeast, had to go back for that... they didn't give me 1.5 lbs of sugar, only 1 and didn't give me any spanish moss! Oh well. I think my mash temp was a touch low. I was at about 147ish instead of 150, but the wort looks awesome...

Excited to see how it turns out, I'll have some photos of the final product.
 
well, it went fairly well for my first AG, it definitely smelled like wort, it definitely had a much hither SG than water, but it wasn't the expected, I was supposed to get 1.072, instead I got 1.052, and I had to replace a few different hops, due to shortages at LHBS. All in all, though it was a blast, I learned how I can improve things, and it smelled yummy. I'm sure it will be awesome beer, I just don't think it will end up tasting like what I hoped for. Heres to my first ag though! All done, pitched and in the primary!

YAY
 
Oh and one question I have too, I think I also saw on this recipe thread that you can replace 1:1 ratio any cane or beet sugar w/ belgian candi sugar, true? Is it wise to still use the belgian sugar? I'm pretty sure the LHBS has it here in SLC Ut.

~Phil

Nope, not at all. Cane/corn sugar is a great sub for clear candi rocks at a fraction of the price. The rocks are a ripoff and add nothing to the beer except fermentables. Now, the dark or D2 Belgian syrups are another story and make a huge flavor difference.
 
I think you have to convert the regular sugar with an acid like lemon juice to make it an invert sugar. It's a pretty simple process where you heat the sugar and add lemon juice. If you search I'm sure you will find the recipe to do it. Basically, you are making your own invert sugar and it's a hell of a lot cheaper than buying candi sugar at the beernut for six bucks a pound or whatever it is.


The candi rocks you buy are not inverted. Inverted sugar does not solidify. Not to mention that rock sugar is a ripoff....
 
The candi rocks you buy are not inverted. Inverted sugar does not solidify. Not to mention that rock sugar is a ripoff....

I've seen that claim here a number of times but it's simply not true, as anyone who's made invert sugar knows.

No argument that the candi rocks are a "bit" over-priced though. :)
 
I've seen that claim here a number of times but it's simply not true, as anyone who's made invert sugar knows.

Have you read "On Food and Cooking" by Harold McGee? It's pretty much considered THE book on food science and in the section on invert sugar he seems to be saying that it doesn't harden.
 
Well, invert is the conversion of sucrose to dextrose and fructose. Both come in dry form so clearly it's possible. Honey is also largely invert sugar and it definitely hardens, given enough time. Invert sugar is highly hygroscopic. I can imagine in a very humid climate that perhaps it wouldn't harden.

I just know when I make it, it turns hard on the waxed paper.
 
The candi rocks you buy are not inverted. Inverted sugar does not solidify. Not to mention that rock sugar is a ripoff....
Hmmm...tell that to the rock hard inverted sugar I made yesterday. seems hard to me. I need a hammer to break it.
 
I'll take first-hand empirical evidence over your "science" by some cook named McGee in some book anyday.

Apologies to OP. Seems HBTers can never find enough stupid things to ague about...
 
let me know how it turns out.... i brewed a red clone not too long ago... definitly needs to sit in the bottles for a while... at 5 weeks in the bottle it was awesome but still tasted a bit young.
 
Well I realized I never updated this thread, but the beer was fine. It was beer, tasted fine... not great... and nothing like chimay. I'm probably going to give the recipe a go again now that I'm getting the all grain technique down, and have a HERMS to make it easier ;)
 
I've got all the ingredients together again, and this time I have everything but the irish moss because I'm not that worried about cloudiness. I'm going to make my own invert sugar this time though. I've got the wyeast smack pack in a starter and stirring now, I wasn't thinking, and started it last nite, and I'm not pitching til saturday, is that bad? Can I just let it stir for 3 days? Should I give it a second step say tomorrow? I'm still new to reusing yeast, and I know a starter is pretty much necessary for a big beer like a dubbel. Anyone? Other than that, I got pretty much every ingredient needed, and have leaf hops for a few of them.. yay :)
 
Well brew day come and gone... 75% eff 1.066 OG on the button, whoot! I hope this turns out awesome. I'm going to bulk age after 3-4 weeks in primary, I'll put in secondary for another 3-4 I think. I'll let you know how it comes out. I made my Belgian Candi Sugar from scratch too :)
 
How did this turn out? I brewed this recipe last week and will be taking a hydro reading tonight or tomorrow. Just curious how long you let it go in the primary and how long did you bottle condition it for. Did it taste close to Chimay? Thanks.
 
I replied to your PM as well Brewenstein, but here it is for mass consumption:

Yes I got a higher finishing attenuation on mine too. It stopped at 1.021. I think because I didn't get a good starter, the higher abv beers like that can kinda shock the yeast and make it stop early. my attenuation was 66.8% and expected is near 74%. The beer still tasted awesome, I did a side by side tasting of a chimay red, the flavor was almost identical except for the sweetness, I tried using my own home made belgian candi sugar and I don't think it worked as well. Next batch I try, I'll make a big starter and use the normal candi sugar.

In other words, I'm definitely going to do this one again, its great. I'll think about using my own belgian candi sugar but I want to try it again w/ the real stuff and see if I get the right amount of sweetness.
 
Thanks for the update, always nice to follow a thread completely.

What was your mash temp the second time? Did you keep it at 147 as you did the first or did you bump it up to your original target of 150? Just curious. I've mashed at 148 for my belgian beers and get great attenuation with a 2.5L starter (decant so only pitching slurry). Still don't make the best belgian beers but I've certainly had great attenuation.
 
I honestly don't recall, I usually like to do most of my beers around 149 or so, but not remembering and my notes from that batch seem to miss that... sorry. I think that's going to be my next batch is a retry at it w/ normal belgian candi sugar to see if it was that sugar that was not inverted that I home made and caused the low attenuation... I'll see if that also gives me a touch more 'sweet' I guess...
 
Has anyone brewed something like this from the last post date? I realize this thread is a bit dated but I am considering brewing a chimay red based on the following:


Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
10 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 80.8 %
4.0 oz Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 3 2.0 %
8.0 oz Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 2 4.0 %
2.1 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 5 1.1 %
1.25 oz Tettnang [4.50 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 7 18.9 IBUs
0.25 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 9 2.1 IBUs
0.25 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 1.6 IBUs
1.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 10 -
1.0 pkg Belgian Ale Yeast (Wyeast Labs #1214) [124.21 ml] Yeast 11 -
1 lbs 4.0 oz Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 6 10.1 %
4.0 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.0 %
 
Pyro, sorry for the late response..

I brewed the exact recipe originally posted on Sunday. I took it from the 200 Clone Brew book. OG was 1.080 and I pitched 2 packs of Wyeast 1762 since I did not have a chance to make a proper starter this time. The air lock smells delicious, time will tell how it taste.
 
Pyro, sorry for the late response..

I brewed the exact recipe originally posted on Sunday. I took it from the 200 Clone Brew book. OG was 1.080 and I pitched 2 packs of Wyeast 1762 since I did not have a chance to make a proper starter this time. The air lock smells delicious, time will tell how it taste.

FWIW, that's Rochefort yeast, not Chimay yeast. If you make it again, try WY1214 or an equivalent.
 
Yep, they were out of the 1214 so the 1762 was the recommended second choice. How much do you think it will affect taste?

I am pretty happy with exceeding my expected efficiency. It was my first brew breaking in the new brew stand.
 
I had a bottle of Chimay recently and put the yeast in a test tube to step up a starter. That seems like a good place to start if you want it similar. I got two very dominant malt flavors, a very distinct toasted raisin, and a very dark caramel...I assume this is Special B and probably Caramunich, although C80 or C120 would also probably work but Chimay is likely using the former. I did read on a thread a ways back that Chimay uses corn sugar and not inverted sugars....can someone point to a reliable source for this? From the color I'd imagine that some amber candi sugar is used in the boil, for the attenuation I doubt it matters as long as it's a simple sugar. The hops don't matter too much as long as they get out of the way of the esters from the yeast (got a lot of pear from what i remember) and the specialty malts, i'd say around 22-26 IBUS from a noble like Tettnang or Hallertauer or Styrian Goldings, but not Saaz and nothing inside 20 minutes.

Without having brewed it yet I would split the base malt maybe 7 lbs. Belgian Pilsener and 2 lbs. marris otter, add a lb. of amber candi, maybe a little more of any white sugar, and use maybe 8oz biscuit, 8 oz aromatic, 8 oz special b, 10 oz munich, 5 oz caramunich....boil 90, hit to about 18 ibus with Styrians, then another 6 or so ibus at 20 with tettnang. Pitch at 66 with cultured Chimay yeast, slowly ramp to 76-78, lager one week-2 weeks at 32, then bottle condition 3-4 weeks 72-76 and then age another few months in the fridge. At that point I'd re asess the temp profile of the ferment to adjust for esters (not enough apples and pears, go warmer quicker, too much bananna keep cooler longer, bubble gum? shift the whole profile down) and adjust the malts, maybe up the caramunich if you didn't get the caramel and so on.....

Just my 2 cents and it's probably not even worth one
 
enricocoron said:
I had a bottle of Chimay recently and put the yeast in a test tube to step up a starter

Far as I know Chimay uses a different yeast forma bottling so harvesting yeast from bottles wont help. Like many belgians i think they use t58 for bottling. I will go with a different yeast
 
No, Chimay uses the same yeast for fermentation and bottling. Stan makes the point in BLAM that they have so much of the fermentation strain around that it makes no sense to keep another yeast for bottling. I have cultured Chimay yeast several tines and used it with excellent results.
 
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