Lager Diacetyl Rest

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brewski65

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I'm brewing my first lager. Northern Brewer Bavarian Helles, 5 gallon brew, extract kit. I used WYEAST 2352 Munich Lager II. My question is how long should I do a diacetyl rest and at what temperature?

I brewed 8 days ago. OG 1.042. I did a yeast starter. Pitched at 72 degrees (room temp) then put the carboy in a temp controlled chest freezer and cooled to 62 degrees for 8 days now. Active fermentation stopped at about 3 days, visible fermentation slowed by day 4 and stopped soon after.

After D-rest am planning to slowly cool to 40 degrees and lager for one month before bottling.

Any thoughts on d-rest temp and how long to do it for is much appreciated!



Primary: Bavarian Helles, Belgian Dubbel
Secondary: Dry Irish Stout
Bottled: Belgian Tripel, Belgian Dubbel; Belgian Strong Golden Ale, Bavarian Hefe, California Common
On Deck: German Ale, Belgian Tripel
 
I'm brewing my first lager. Northern Brewer Bavarian Helles, 5 gallon brew, extract kit. My question is how long should I do a diacetyl rest and at what temperature?

I brewed 8 days ago. OG 1.042. I did a yeast starter. Pitched at 72 degrees (room temp) then put the carboy in a temp controlled chest freezer and cooled to 62 degrees for 8 days now. Active fermentation stopped at about 3 days, visible fermentation slowed by day 4 and stopped soon after. I used WYEAST 2352 Munich Lager II.

After D-rest am planning to slowly cool to 40 degrees and lager for one month before bottling.

Any thoughts on d-rest temp and how long to do it for is much appreciated!



Primary: Bavarian Helles, Belgian Dubbel
Secondary: Dry Irish Stout
Bottled: Belgian Tripel, Belgian Dubbel; Belgian Strong Golden Ale, Bavarian Hefe, California Common
On Deck: German Ale, Belgian Tripel

Do I understand you right? You've been fermenting at 62 degrees with Munich lager II?
 
correct, fermenting at 62 degrees with Munich lager II. The extract kit instructions say the optimum temp range is 52-62.
 
I would have pitched that yeast closer to 50 and fermented at 52-53. At 62 you did not make a lager and at 8 days the ferment is long finished, missing the window for drest.
 
If they sugested the upper range of 62 degrees, and your at within that your flavor profile might be different then what was intended. The yeast used was what determined what was put on the kit interms of ferment temps. I'm a lager brewer, and I've done primary ferments at 59 before for a certain profile I was looking for. Just keep it there for 20 days or so and crash it to 39-35 for Lagering for a month, and you'll have great beer Im sure. Normally I would do a diacetyl rest, after that period, at 65-68 for two days, but since your primary was warmer you might not need to. Sometimes, IMHO, the best beers come from either accidents, or brewing outside the norms. :)
 
It will still be beer, it wont be a helles though. if you adjust your expectations and not try to sell the beer as a helles or a lager it may be fine.
 
Lager yeast differs from ale yeast, It's bottom fermenting. Also the process of secondary conditioning at really cold temp for longer periods of time is called Lagering(between 1-6months) and it's where the style got it's name. I'm thinking the OP new this when he bought the kit, and has a place to "Lager" at colder temps;).

Also just checked the profile of wyeast 2352...states that it's a low sulfur, and low diacetyl producer so you should be good. Also will still be nice and malty:D
 
thanks all, appreciate the guidance and words of encouragement. I now get why so many brewers say lagering is more labor intensive and requires attention to detail compared to brewing ales!

@ patthebrewer, I was incorrect, the yeast used was Wyeast 2308 Munich Lager. Does this change anything in your recommendations for how best to proceed from here? Still do the drest after I lager for a month?

Primary: Bavarian Helles, Belgian Dubbel
Secondary: Dry Irish Stout
Bottled: Belgian Tripel, Belgian Dubbel; Belgian Strong Golden Ale, Bavarian Hefe, California Common
On Deck: German Ale, Belgian Tripel
 
Well, you fermented way too warm for that yeast strain. Here's the info:

This is a unique strain, capable of producing fine lagers. It is very smooth, well-rounded and full-bodied. A thorough diacetyl rest is recommended after fermentation is complete.

Origin:
Flocculation: medium
Attenuation: 70-74%
Temperature Range: 48-56° F (9-13° C)
Alcohol Tolerance: approximately 9% ABV

Go ahead and do a diacetyl rest now (even though you've sort of been doing one all along) and taste for diacetyl. If you have ANY slickness on the tongue or teeth, do NOT lower the temperature for the lagering phase yet. Keep the beer warm until the diacetyl is gone.

If there is absolutely no hint of any slickness or oilyness or butter flavor, you can rack and begin lagering. This won't really be a "lager" but instead what we call "steam beer"- an ale fermented with lager yeast at ale temperatures, like a California common.
 
No, forget the d-rest. You've missed the window. The standard protocol for a lager is:

1) Measure O.G. of wort and determine expected F.G.
2) Primary ferment at 45-55 F for 3-5 days, then take an S.G. sample
3) Once your S.G. is 75% of the way to your expected F.G., THAT is when you do your d-rest.
4) Slowly (over 2-3 days) raise the temperature up to a normal ale fermentation temperature (65-70 F) and let fermentation finish.
5) Check S.G. again. Once you have 2 identical readings 3 days apart, fermentation is done. Now it's time to lager.
6) Lager beer at 35 F for a couple of months.

Your problem was you did your primary fermentation way too hot, and as a result, the yeast completely fermented out much more quickly than it otherwise would have. This no doubt produced a few off flavors, and you've missed your window for the d-rest, so I'd advise lagering for at least 2 months to try and let some of those off-flavors mellow and settle out.
 
that yeast has a max ferm temp of 56....so you probably will be smelling fruity esters comming out of the airlock (Hopefully not too much). Fruity esters are generally undesirable in lagers, so it might not be what you were shooting for interms of a Munich Lager. Try a longer diacetyl rest maybe 3-4 days at 65-68, then crash to 38 for longer say 3-4months. Maybe you can nock some of that fruit, and sulfur aroma out of there during lagering. In any case don't expect every brew session to go exactly as planned, and with every new brew session you will learn......who knows it could be delicious, motivating you to try it again...in other words "Relax. Don't worry! Have a Homebrew!"
 
Ok, I tasted: no butter or butterscotch flavors but it did leave an oily slick feeling on the tongue. It smells like a lager, no fruity esters. So now will drest (@ 68 degrees) for a couple of days (until slickness is gone) followed by cold crash and lagering and then look forward with crossed fingers to a drinkable steam brew in a couple of months.

MANY thanks to everyone for your help. Will let you know how it turns out - cheers.
 
I did a partial mash version of Northerns Helles and used the 2308 Munich yeast. My gravity sample fermented on my work bench (70F) and cleared within a week, I tried it and didn't notice any really strong esters or off flavors. You might be in the clear at 62F
 
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