Inexpensive Wart Chiller Pump Idea to Share

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I dump the ice bin into bags until I have a shelf full of ice at the ready. When it comes time to chill I drop the pot into a sink full of ice/water then cycle ice water through the chiller. Cools things down in no time with little more than a sink full of water wasted. Usually the same water I did the starsan treatment with so call it recycling. :p
 
Buchenstrasse_Brewer said:
Sure isn't that the point though pre-pitch?

When the wort is cool eniugh, yes.

What he's referring to is hot-side aeration, the idea being that when wort is above a certain temperature (about 80 degrees), oxygen introduced into it will undergo reactions and bind to compounds in the wort that will eventually lead to long-term flavor stability/oxidative problems.

Some (many) brewers see it as little more than a myth/brewing boogeyman, but there is definite merit to the idea, and the arguments this group of brewers put forth tend to always be based on wild conjecture, logical fallacies, and serious misunderstandings of the concept and/or the science itself. So I ultimately view it as something that should definitely be taken fairly seriously, and avoided when possible.
 
But doesn't that introduce oxygen if the temp is > 80F?

Another "hot side aeration" comment from the peanut gallery. "Food safe", "introduce infection", and "liquid is better than dry yeast" can't be far behind.

HSA fact or fiction aside, I didn't say to agitate the wort with a 2000psi stream of 500F oxygen. A common method is to stir the wort occasionally, or, if you are pump enabled, recirc the wort while chilling. The increase in heat transfer is very substantial.
 
Some (many) brewers see it as little more than a myth/brewing boogeyman, but there is definite merit to the idea, and the arguments this group of brewers put forth tend to always be based on wild conjecture, logical fallacies, and serious misunderstandings of the concept and/or the science itself. So I ultimately view it as something that should definitely be taken fairly seriously, and avoided when possible.

I think a big source of the HSA myth was one of the brew webcast shows that had a scientist on talking about HSA. He downplayed HSA saying that many other things, like storage temps, have a much greater impact and should be corrected first. Many in the listening audience took this to mean HSA was a myth, even though he stated it was real, just less important than other things for long term stability.

Another source of the HSA myth is a practice that a major European brewer of American pilsner (Budweiser) uses where they blast air through a cascading wall of hot wort, or something of that sort.
 
I fill the excess space in my chest freezer with old half gallon milk jugs filled with water. I plan to use those to chill the water I circulate through my future wort chiller, when I can't cycle my pool water. This thread has been great it encouraged me to pursue this idea.
 
I fill the excess space in my chest freezer with old half gallon milk jugs filled with water. I plan to use those to chill the water I circulate through my future wort chiller, when I can't cycle my pool water. This thread has been great it encouraged me to pursue this idea.

Chilled water has much less thermal potential than ice. It is probably on the order of 5-10 times as much (without consulting any real info). As long as your pool is the same or colder than tap, there is no reason not to use it until a recirc ice bath is needed for the latter portion of the chill.

Filling extra space with jugs will help a keezer stabilize temps, though.
 
And the jugs become reusable ice for my icebath and chilled water

My bad. When you said you were putting the jugs in your "chest freezer", I assumed it was a keezer and they would only be chilled water.
If left sealed up, the frozen jugs won't work well for chilling due to heat transfer issues. The ice has to melt to do its job. 2 liter soda bottles with the top cut off make decent reuseable ice molds.

Using tap (or pool) water for the initial part of the chill works best, since the added temp differential provided by ice water doesn't do much when the wort is above 100F. After that, recircing into an ice bath is beneficial. To use the ice most effeciently, the ice bath chiller exhaust should not be recirc'd until it is colder than tap. Until that point, it is best to recharge the ice bath with tap water if needed.
 
Um...... why? Is there really a reason to sanitize the inside of the chiller?

Sanitize was perhaps the incorrect term. But, lets be reasonable. Its darn near impossible to clean the inside of the chiller. On brew day I always mix up 2.5 gals of starsan to sanitize my parts. It goes down the sink after the fermenter is in the chamber. No harm in sending it into the sink via the chiller, since the pump is already hooked up and all...
 
Sanitize was perhaps the incorrect term. But, lets be reasonable. Its darn near impossible to clean the inside of the chiller. On brew day I always mix up 2.5 gals of starsan to sanitize my parts. It goes down the sink after the fermenter is in the chamber. No harm in sending it into the sink via the chiller, since the pump is already hooked up and all...

I think he was wondering why bother to clean the inside of an immersion chiller at all.
Plain water and draining it is probably best. Starsan doesn't permanently sanitize. After it is neutralized, I believe it becomes a nutrient of sorts for some critters. If any pools inside the chiller and can't evaporate, Starsan may promote funky growth inside the chiller more than plain water would.
 
Sanitize was perhaps the incorrect term. But, lets be reasonable. Its darn near impossible to clean the inside of the chiller. On brew day I always mix up 2.5 gals of starsan to sanitize my parts. It goes down the sink after the fermenter is in the chamber. No harm in sending it into the sink via the chiller, since the pump is already hooked up and all...

Not sure I agree. Star-San is super acidic and would love to chew on your delightfully copper IC from the inside out. This sounds like a recipe for disaster, or at the least, some pinholes or bad corrosion.
 
Not sure I agree. Star-San is super acidic and would love to chew on your delightfully copper IC from the inside out. This sounds like a recipe for disaster, or at the least, some pinholes or bad corrosion.

Thats kind of what I was thinking, now an immersion chiller is a dif story from what ive read, but I have never used either so I have no credit here lol.
 
Not sure I agree. Star-San is super acidic and would love to chew on your delightfully copper IC from the inside out. This sounds like a recipe for disaster, or at the least, some pinholes or bad corrosion.

Can't remember whether it was Starsan or PBW, or both, that are bad for copper. I don't really care to find out either, since I don't own any copper. I don't understand why anyone buys new copper IC or CFC either, since stainless is now cheaper than copper, and the thin walled SS is as good or better than thick walled copper at heat transfer.
 
Here's a 10 gallon chill using an immersion chiller, garden hose, and circulating ice. 22 minutes in, I switched to the ice and pump, as described in this thread. Works like a charm.


My pump:


In the pail:
 
Question on hose attachments for some of these pumps without screw hose attachments - if the outlet is just a plastic tube, say 1/2 inch, how do you attach it to teh pump, and to the chiller?

Do you just by some 1/2 tubing and force it on the pump outlet tube, and then use a 1/2 barb - garden hose output?
 
I'm resurrecting an old thread but just wanted to say I'm glad I found it. I've been looking all over for a cheap 120v submersion pump and this looks promising. That pump is now $14.99 but Harbor Freight has a 20% off coupon this month. Going to swing over to HF on my lunch break and grab one.
 
I think you just built yourself a hopback without the hop portion. This setup is also used to circulate beer around in the mash tun if you worry about such things (which you shouldn't IMHO).

Alot of ideas can spawn from this little setup. I dont waste alot of water at my home- ie: I dont run any water on the lawn all summer long- because its a waste. My kids and wife dont care that its not tropical green- and I dont because its such a waste. So I dont mind wasting a little water when brewing.

I will however take this idea and add it into my project bank. I do want to recirculate wort eventually on the cheap scale.
 
Can you post the link to where you bought this? cant read the image.

Here you go. I just picked one up and it's a large sucker. I like that it has interchangeable hose barbs though. I could use it for stuff other than my immersion chiller. It was hard to find in the store, they had it on a shelf under their large air compressor display, easy to miss.

They make one that has a 620gph flow rate as well but it is a bit expensive. Print yourself one of their 20% off coupons too.

http://www.harborfreight.com/264-gph-submersible-fountain-pump-68395.html
 
I think you just built yourself a hopback without the hop portion. This setup is also used to circulate beer around in the mash tun if you worry about such things (which you shouldn't IMHO).

I will however take this idea and add it into my project bank. I do want to recirculate wort eventually on the cheap scale.
This set up in no way resembles a hop back, and these pumps are not suitable for handling wort. I doubt it will handle even mash temps without damage, and even if it could, it just isn't a good idea. Post boil chilled wort is definitely out of the question.

If you don't care about any of the reasons not to use these pumps for wort, you might as well use a washing machine for your mash tun. There is a video of a guy who converted one. Nice piece of redneck engineering.
 
Sure isn't that the point though pre-pitch?

It's a reference to HSA I believe. (edit) Which I don't believe in. ;)

I put my IC in 10-15minutes before flameout along with with my whirfloc and yeast nutrient to sanitize it. At the same time I recirc the wort with my pump and place the hose so that the wort is recirculated in the opposite direction as the IC water flows. Voila, counterflow chiller.

Also, I use a prechiller setup with a 2nd IC in a bucket filled with ice water. When I'm trying to get those last stubborn 25 degrees to come off I dial the flow back so the prechiller can do it's thing creating a greater delta between the wort and the cooling water.

All in all I chill down to 80f in SoCal summer weather in about 20-25 minutes, then down to about 70f in another 15 minutes. When it's time to transfer, I just move the recirc tube from the kettle to the fermenter.
 
It's a reference to HSA I believe. (edit) Which I don't believe in. ;)
Both sides of the HSA issue were already discussed. It is real, whether you believe in it, or not.

At the same time I recirc the wort with my pump and place the hose so that the wort is recirculated in the opposite direction as the IC water flows. Voila, counterflow chiller.
Closer to a 'shell and tube' than a CFC, but a tradeoff I am also willing to make to not have to worry about the insides of a 50ft tube, or 20+ stacked plates.

Also, I use a prechiller setup with a 2nd IC in a bucket filled with ice water. When I'm trying to get those last stubborn 25 degrees to come off I dial the flow back so the prechiller can do it's thing creating a greater delta between the wort and the cooling water.
You have missed the whole point of this thread. You will get much better performance from chilling with straight tap to ~20F of tap water, then switch to an open ice bath recirc using a pump at as fast a flow as you can afford. Waiting to recirc the ice bath (replenish with tap water instead) until the outflow is colder than tap will save on ice usage.

All in all I chill down to 80f in SoCal summer weather in about 20-25 minutes, then down to about 70f in another 15 minutes. When it's time to transfer, I just move the recirc tube from the kettle to the fermenter.
Mr. Malty has had a 'how to' on his whirlpool chiller out for some time. It brings up another topic some consider a myth- product shear. I have plans to make a mechanical agitator to avoid 30 min of running my wort through a 3500rpm blender. Mainly to get a better whirlpool post chill, but if I can eliminate shear at the same time, why not.
 
Nice build. I've been holding back on a plate chiller because of the cost and they seem like they can be a pain. I'll do this instead with my IC.
 
So, I hooked up the pump last night to my 25ft copper immersion chiller and I'm a little disappointed with the flow rate. Disconnected from the chiller the pump puts out a pretty impressive amount of water, but after going through all that tubing it loses quite a bit of it's oomph. If circulating ice water it may still be acceptable.


I imagine the larger 600+ gph unit would work quite a bit better.
 
I just bought the same pump and a stainless steel immersion chiller. Can't wait to brew my next batch!
 
Edit, fuggetaboutit. I need to get used to people picking apart everything a stranger says on the internet, I think that's why Al Gore invented it.

Well, when you come busting into a thread specifically about using pumps for open bath recirculation, and then brag about your chill times using a second IC as a pre-chiller when presumably using a garden hose as the input, what did you expect?

You could get even better performance by applying some of the techniques in this thread. It would require another pump like those discussed here, though.

Without adding a pump, your way is the preferred method. However, the pre-chiller doesn't increase performance much until the wort temp is within ~30F of tap temps. Up to that point when flow rates are high, it just uses up ice without really making any meaningful change to the water temps. If ice usage matters, leaving the pre-chiller out of the ice bath until needed will save your ice for when it is needed.

Here is a post with pictures and graphs-
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/in...ump-idea-share-267132/index3.html#post3344808
 
Well, when you come busting into a thread specifically about using pumps for open bath recirculation, and then brag about your chill times using a second IC as a pre-chiller when presumably using a garden hose as the input, what did you expect?

You could get even better performance by applying some of the techniques in this thread. It would require another pump like those discussed here, though.

Without adding a pump, your way is the preferred method. However, the pre-chiller doesn't increase performance much until the wort temp is within ~30F of tap temps. Up to that point when flow rates are high, it just uses up ice without really making any meaningful change to the water temps. If ice usage matters, leaving the pre-chiller out of the ice bath until needed will save your ice for when it is needed.

Here is a post with pictures and graphs-
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/in...ump-idea-share-267132/index3.html#post3344808

LOL @ "busting into a thread....bragging about chill times" I actually was thinking that my chill times were slow compared to some of the ones I've read on this thread.

Appreciate the tip on leaving the prechiller out until the temp drops somewhat. I do think you read into my post a bit too much though, as it was merely intended to share my method in case others had an extra IC and no sump pump to try this idea.

A thread is just a public discussion about a general topic. I shouldn't have to approach it like a native american burial ground IMHO. Trying my best to contribute around here, that's all. :mug:
 
A thread is just a public discussion about a general topic. I shouldn't have to approach it like a native american burial ground IMHO.
You are right, you shouldn't. I assume the same goes for others?
There are some general guidelines, though. Like trying to stay on topic.
If you aren't happy with your chill times and have warm tap water, the open ice bath really helps. The pump needs to be strong/fast enough to get a reasonable flow through your chiller. Some have found the cheaper pumps have insufficient flow at the head pressures required to push through even a 25ft IC.
 
You are right, you shouldn't. I assume the same goes for others?
There are some general guidelines, though. Like trying to stay on topic.
If you aren't happy with your chill times and have warm tap water, the open ice bath really helps. The pump needs to be strong/fast enough to get a reasonable flow through your chiller. Some have found the cheaper pumps have insufficient flow at the head pressures required to push through even a 25ft IC.

Of course it does. Forgive me for straying. There are an awful lot of chilling discussions on this beginner forum, and they tend to bleed into each others' domains. Apologies to the OP if I've been unhelpful.

I have every intention of buying a sump pump today though and trying this when I brew on sunday. Much of what you've said has been helpful to that end, so :mug:
 
I have every intention of buying a sump pump today though and trying this when I brew on sunday.
Straying a bit, but some pumps can be repurposed for use in a keg/carboy washer. The pump is about 90% of the cost of a DIY keg washer. This might help when trying to rationalize buying a bigger pump. Something that can produce around 3 gal/min at 10psi (25' head) is in the ballpark. A keg washer thread will have better info. Careful with pump specs, most list max flow at 0' head, and max head at 0 gal/min.
 
Hey everyone I figured I'd post back and let everyone know that I tried this about 2 weeks ago using my 25ft copper chiller. This pump doesn't have a crazy amount of flow after going through all that tubing and copper, but it's enough. In retrospect a higher capacity pump would work even better.

Anyway, we had 3 kettles going that day so I couldn't use the garden hose to draw off some of the initial heat because someone else needed it. What I did was fill a cooler with about 5 frozen 2 liter bottles and a bunch of ice about 20 minutes before flame out. I connected the outlet tube of the wort chiller to the discharge side of the pump and stuck the inlet side of the chiller in the cooler.

I didn't time it but this method worked MUCH faster than just using water from the faucet. Unfortunately though, the amount of ice I had only lasted long enough for a single wort cool down because I was dumping that super hot initial water back into the cooler at the opposite side of the pump.

But this worked really well and I will probably do this from now on. Next time I will time it.
 
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