Thoughts on all fuggle bipa

So my dad scored a bunch of fuggles from his work (anheuser busch) and I was wondering how an all fuggle black ipa would turn out. I see that shipyard has an all fuggles ipa and they also get used in stouts a bit so.. why not an all fuggles bipa?

something like (I'm new at making recipes, critique welcome):

Batch Size 5.500 gal
Boil Time 90.000 min Efficiency 70%
OG 1.055 FG 1.014
ABV 5.4% Bitterness 70.6 IBU
Color 35.8 srm

Fermentables

Pale Malt (2 Row) UK - 10.000 lb
Chocolate Malt - 8.000 oz
Biscuit Malt - 16.000 oz
Carafa III - 8.000 oz
Roasted Barley - 4.000 oz

Hops

Fuggles 4.25% 1.000 oz Boil 90.000 min
Fuggles 4.25% 1.000 oz Boil 60.000 min
Fuggles 4.25% 1.000 oz Boil 50.000 min
Fuggles 4.25% 1.000 oz Boil 20.000 min
Fuggles 4.25% 1.000 oz Boil 40.000 min
Fuggles 4.25% 1.000 oz Boil 30.000 min
Fuggles 4.25% 1.000 oz Boil 10.000 min
Fuggles 4.25% 1.000 oz Boil 5.000 min

Yeast

Safale S-04 Ale


Any thoughts?

I would also consider using some of the fuggles for dry hop as well

What's the worst case? Home brewers drink their mistakes.

I'm not THAT familiar with fuggle but I know someone that experimented with a fuggle IPA and it did not turn out well at all.

That strain doesn't have the flavor/aroma of the hops normally used in IPA's.

Again, I personally have not experimented with it but did toss around the idea of exactly what you're talking about. After looking into how those hops would play out, I decided to abort mission.

I may be talking out of my ass, I'm sure others will chime in but IMO, fuggle doesn't make for a good hop-forward beer.

If you're not sure, you could try a small batch and see how it turns out. Or you could try a couple of all fuggles batches with different schedules and see what happens.

LobdellBrewer said:

What's the worst case? Home brewers drink their mistakes.

Click to expand...

And this is 100% true.

If you've got the ingredients on hand, BREW IT!

I've made some good beers that were "leftovers mash" brews.

I've made some awful beers that were "leftovers mash" brews.

Either way, brew your normal rotation and when you've got enough leftovers, toss em together and see what happens!

A few things. First, while fuggles more times than not gets a bad rap for it's supposed 'poor' flavor and aroma profile, much of that is anecdotal. How many American homebrewers make all-fuggles IPA's or use them in quantity? Not that many. You can't compare apples to oranges, just as fuggles is not comparable to amarillo or citra. However, on the other side of the pond, fuggles is used in many hoppy beers - IPA's included - and is certainly enjoyed as such. If used well, fuggles can lend a pleasant floral and bright herbal quality (and some earthiness) that pairs exceptionally well with rich yeasts and biscuity malts. It is probably the best aroma/flavor hop for dark and malty beers and has been purposely used in that role for over two centuries.

With that said, use these hops in something that is going to best suit them. Find a good quality UK basemalt (maris otter, golden promise, tipple, optic) and build the recipe up from there keeping things simple as possible. The recipe you have looks 'well enough' although I would reduce the chocolate and roasted barley in favor of debittered black and carafa special malts if you want to make this a black-IPA. Biscuit malt on top of a good UK basemalt is, IMO, rather unnecessary. As for hopping, additions at 60, 30, 15, flame out are enough and a dry-hop is certainly welcome. Keeping the amount of hop matter down for the boil, in favor of late aroma additions, will help prevent a lot of those earthy-grassy flavors. Also, 70 ibu for an 1.056 beer is a bit much. Stick closer to 1:1. Lastly, do yourself the favor and choose a yeast with more character that will pair better with your hops. Wy1968/wlp002 would be a good choice, as would some of the more attenuating yeasts like wy1028... which would be a great choice.

I'm rambling... good luck with the brew.

Bierhaus gave some very good advice here as well as radegast. I think you should do a batch of fuggle Ipa, and please report your experience because many of us discount fuggle in the roll of a hop for an Ipa myself included. Fuggle however lends itself to dark beers without a doubt, and you should definitely explore that avenue also.

Maybe I'm kicking a dead horse when it comes to the definition of a 'bipa' (cda, etc...) But to me you recipe just looks like a really hoppy stout. To me, a cda doesn't need, nor want, chocolate or roasted barley in it. In fact, all the good black ipas I've made and had have basically been a good IPA or DIPA base with some special carafa added for a subtle roast, and mostly color. With the chocolate, roast, and carafa I really just see an overly hopped stout. Just my $0.02.

As for fuggles, I've only used them in English ales, cream ales, and stouts, all with good results - although they really are a subtle woodsy, almost mellow earthy/herbal hop to me which doesnt necessarily scream 'IPA' to me. Either way, good luck and keep us posted!

Here's a good comparison of different hops from an analytic and practical use perspective Hops Chart The Fuggles varieties are a low alpha acid hop. Therefore achieving IPA level bitterness will take a large quantity. It's typically used for aroma as a late addition similar to Willamete.

So, can you use it? yes. you will just blow through a lot of hops to get your bitterness profile. BTW - i like the idea of doing lots of additions, though i think you will have diminishing returns on the 90 minute addition. I know the equations/tools say you are going to get better utilization and squeeze every bit of bitterness out of that first addition, but I find that after 60 minutes the result becomes muddy flavor-wise, unless you are doing a continuous hop, which tends to mask the muddy early hop additions. Instead of doing a 90 minute addition, i would suggest thinking about a First Wort Hop addition and bumping up the 60 minute.

Whatever way you go, it should be good. Enjoy!

Thanks for all the great input/info

I think it was a good idea to switch back to a more traditional hop schedule since this is a somewhat experimental recipe. I decided to stick with boring yeast so it would be easier to compare it to other bipas i've brewed.

Here is what I changed to so far:

Batch Size 5.500 gal
Boil Time 60.000 min Efficiency 70%
OG 1.054 FG 1.014
ABV 5.3% Bitterness 59.8 IBU
Color 32.3 srm

Fermentables

Total grain: 12.000 lb

Pale Malt (2 Row) UK 10.500 lb
Chocolate Malt (US) 4.000 oz
Carafa III 8.000 oz
Roasted Barley 4.000 oz
Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L 8.000 oz

Hops

Fuggles 4.25% 1.000 oz First Wort
Fuggles 4.25% 2.000 oz Boil 60.000 min
Fuggles 4.25% 1.000 oz Boil 30.000 min
Fuggles 4.25% 1.000 oz Boil 20.000 min
Fuggles 4.25% 1.000 oz Boil 15.000 min
Fuggles 4.25% 1.000 oz Boil 10.000 min
Fuggles 4.25% 1.000 oz Boil 0.000 s
Fuggles 4.25% 1.000 oz Dry Hop 7.000 day

Yeast

Safale S-05 Ale

Thanks again for all the responses

I believe on youtube a guy named leedorham brewed a fuggles ipa. Homegrown hops. Very simple recipe but its something to kind of compare it to.

so I ended up doing this:

Batch Size 5.500 gal
Boil Time 60.000 min Efficiency 70%
OG 1.054 FG 1.014
ABV 5.3%
Bitterness 59.8 IBU
Color 32.3 srm

Fermentables

Total grain: 12.000 lb

Pale Malt (2 Row) UK 10.500 lb
Chocolate Malt (US) 4.000 oz
Carafa III 8.000 oz
Roasted Barley 4.000 oz
Crystal Malt - 60L 8.000 oz

Hops

Fuggles 4.25% 1.000 oz First Wort
Fuggles 4.25% 1.000 oz Boil 60.000 min (<- changed from 2oz)
Fuggles 4.25% 1.000 oz Boil 30.000 min
Fuggles 4.25% 1.000 oz Boil 20.000 min
Fuggles 4.25% 1.000 oz Boil 15.000 min
Fuggles 4.25% 1.000 oz Boil 10.000 min
Fuggles 4.25% 1.000 oz Boil 0.000 s
Fuggles 4.25% 1.000 oz Dry Hop 7.000 day

Yeast
Safale S-05 Ale

It was pretty good....before I dry hopped it. The woody/spicy flavor is a bit over the top now. It seemed pretty well balanced before DHing.

Next time (if I end up scoring the free fuggles again next year) I'll maybe skip the DH or use .5 oz for only a 2-3 days.