Why Do US Brewers Try To Replicate Branded Beers ?

It interests me that so many US homebrewers try to replicate certain beers.
Why do you do this?

Because you can usually make 5G of it for under $30-$40 where as buying 48 beers at $8 a 6 pack comes out to $64
Plus it's a test of knowledge for some to be able to drink a beer, and determine what ingredients make that flavor and be able to prove they know what they're talking about

Many do it to test their skills.

Some do it cause they have fooled themselve in to believing they can do it cheaper.

some do it because it is cheaper.

Others, just for the love of good beer.

Don't discount the challenge of it, either.

GilaMinumBeer said:

Some do it cause they have fooled themselve in to believing they can do it cheaper.

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Meh, you're brewing anyway. This one recipe would be cheaper than buying 2 cases of it.

Testing your skills I agree with.
Cost, I dont agree with.

GMB... How are you my "Hairy Axe Wound " Friend ?

Where do you get your idea that many US homebrewers do this? From the number of requests of clone recipes on here?

I, personally, have only tried one "clone" recipe for beer. I think many people who want a clone are starting out and know what beer they like but may not exactly know what about that beer that they like. For example, they may like a certain IPA and want to clone it instead of realizing it is the combination of Cascade and Centennial hops that they like ABOUT the IPA. Does that make any sense?

johnnyboy1965 said:

Testing your skills I agree with.
Cost, I dont agree with.

GMB... How are you my "Hairy Axe Wound " Friend ?

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Constantly struggling with yeast infections. How's things on your side?

johnnyboy1965 said:

Testing your skills I agree with.
Cost, I dont agree with.

GMB... How are you my "Hairy Axe Wound " Friend ?

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The fact that you can't do it for cheaper doesn't mean some of us can't.



Brewing Clones is a good way to figure out if the problem is you, or the problem is your recipes. You've got something to compare it to.

It's really simple. We know that we like a certain beer, so it goes to say when your new you want a drinkable result. So if a beer you can make will taste similar to something you already know you like then well duh.....:rockin:

Next is you like a beer but it probably has some things you don't like too it...so you get a chance to make it a few times and make it your own the way you like it....almost perfect....:rockin:

Think about it if you find a hot girl you love....but you had the opportunity to change her slightly would you give it a shot.....duh:rockin:

I'm not sure the question here really, seems like a stir things up type question and I like them. Also why do you think only US guys do this?
I'm willing to bet that the folks across the pond are doing the samething as well as our friends north the "Solid Line"....Sorry had to :rockin:

OK, Ill try and put it another way.
Why would you want to clone a beer?

GMB... Fine TX...Drinking some very nice traditional English beer

johnnyboy1965 said:

Cost, I dont agree with.

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Keep in mind the theree tier distribution. Brewing cheaper than the original brewery is unlikely but, factor in the taxation, distribution costs, and bottle shop markup and it's an easy task to brew beers less expensive than many of the small to medium volume producers.

In fact, most are cheaper so long as you don't try to brew for less than a 12 ounce macro. Even then, it is still doable.

Most of my batches run in the range of 25 to 50 cents a serving with only the really large beers running upwards of 75 cents to a dollar per serving. based on ingredient costs.

johnnyboy1965 said:

It interests me that so many US homebrewers try to replicate certain beers.
Why do you do this?

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Why do I try to clone beers that I've never even tasted before? It is a challenge but the main reason is because I think the beer sounds tasty and I'm looking for ideas on what to brew next. Not really any more to it than that. Out of 40 batches made last year I think I made the same style only 3x (intentionally that is).

Just curious but is this really something that only US homebrewers do? Or do we just do it way more?

johnnyboy1965 said:

OK, Ill try and put it another way.
Why would you want to clone a beer?

GMB... Fine TX...Drinking some very nice traditional English beer

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If I were to EVER clone a beer it'd be because of two things;

To test my prowress.

To provide myself with a product not otherwise available locally.

For some, I suppose, it's also a measure of pride to offer something to patrons that is familiar to them.

One major reason is that most craft beers in the United States aren't very widely distributed, and many foreign beers are not imported at all. If, among those beers is one you *really* like, the only way to get it is pretty much to brew it yourself.

I don't usually brew clones, but I like looking at the recipes and use them as inspiration for my own recipes. The Belgian Dark Strong that's sitting in my primary right now is my own recipe, but I consulted a St. Bernardus 12, a Rochefort 10, a Westvleteren 12 and a domestic dark strong recipe first to get a better idea of how the best examples of this style are created.

johnnyboy1965 said:

OK, Ill try and put it another way.
Why would you want to clone a beer?

GMB... Fine TX...Drinking some very nice traditional English beer

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What's brand of beer does it taste like?

GilaMinumBeer said:

Keep in mind the theree tier distribution. Brewing cheaper than the original brewery is unlikely but, factor in the taxation, distribution costs, and bottle shop markup and it's an easy task to brew beers less expensive than many of the small to medium volume producers.

In fact, most are cheaper so long as you don't try to brew for less than a 12 ounce macro. Even then, it is still doable.

Most of my batches run in the range of 25 to 50 cents a serving with only the really large beers running upwards of 75 cents to a dollar per serving. based on ingredient costs.

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So if you find a beer you like to drink (bottle/pub/whatever) is it not better to drink that beer than try to replicate it ?

johnnyboy1965 said:

So if you find a beer you like to drink (bottle/pub/whatever) is it not better to drink that beer than try to replicate it ?

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Like I said before, you may not be able to buy that beer where you live.

brewagentjay said:

What's brand of beer does it taste like?

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It doesn`t taste like any Commerialy (sp) brewed beer. Its a beer that Ive brewed myself.

ArcaneXor said:

Like I said before, you may not be able to buy that beer where you live.

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Fair comment

johnnyboy1965 said:

OK, Ill try and put it another way.
Why would you want to clone a beer?

GMB... Fine TX...Drinking some very nice traditional English beer

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johnnyboy1965 said:

So if you find a beer you like to drink (bottle/pub/whatever) is it not better to drink that beer than try to replicate it ?

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I live in an area where it's almost impossible to buy good beer, at any price. So, I could go without fine craft beer, or I can make my own. I can get Bell's beers (most of them) with only about a 45 minute drive, though.

Sometimes I make a direct clone- I've had a certain beer and I want to try to make it myself. Often, I suceed.

Sometimes, I want to make a certain style beer, but make it better. As in, "I like Fat Tire, but I'd like it better if it had more hops", so I make something that has similar qualities but with hopping more to my liking.

A big part of it is finding out what I like and tweaking a beer to be exactly what I want.

johnnyboy1965 said:

It doesn`t taste like any Commerialy (sp) brewed beer. Its a beer that Ive brewed myself.

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You can't say that unless your beer is a style of beer that hasn't ever been brewed by anyone before you....Otherwise it can be compared to a brand and style of beer. You said Classic English Beer....I'm sure there are many commerical English Beer with very similar style and taste....So really it's for lack of a better term the same as a clone beer.

A Clone will never be the orginal but will be a of a similar style and taste the only different between what I do if I brew a clone and what you do with your Classic English style beer is that I call it a clone.

We could put your recipe in a database and I bet there is at least one if not more commerical or craft beers that are very similar....

What you think?:rockin:

Like others said. I usually only brew a clone if its not really available in my area.

YooperBrew said:

I live in an area where it's almost impossible to buy good beer, at any price. So, I could go without fine craft beer, or I can make my own. I can get Bell's beers (most of them) with only about a 45 minute drive, though.

Sometimes I make a direct clone- I've had a certain beer and I want to try to make it myself. Often, I suceed.

Sometimes, I want to make a certain style beer, but make it better. As in, "I like Fat Tire, but I'd like it better if it had more hops", so I make something that has similar qualities but with hopping more to my liking.

A big part of it is finding out what I like and tweaking a beer to be exactly what I want.

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Hello YooperBrew, ...Then you are not "cloning a beer". You are taking a recipe, and adjusting it to your taste (well done). My original question was.. Why would any HB want to clone a beer.

Seems we all are being defensive about brewing a beer similar to a craft/commerical beer we enjoyed or think would be good....I can't understand why?

Clone and your own recipe are so similar to the same thing.

Unless you wildly throw your stuff in the brew pot I guess.

johnnyboy1965 said:

Hello YooperBrew, ...Then you are not "cloning a beer". You are taking a recipe, and adjusting it to your taste (well done). My original question was.. Why would any HB want to clone a beer.

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Still a clone you didn't start it from scratch you started with something you already know you like or might like....:rockin:

I do it occasionally to baseline. For example, when I got my rig built, first thing I did was brew my Guinness clone. Why? Cause I've had that at so many different places I can tell if mine is off and usually why it is off.

That and it never hurts to have some Guinness on tap...

JayInJersey said:

I do it occasionally to baseline. For example, when I got my rig built, first thing I did was brew my Guinness clone. Why? Cause I've had that at so many different places I can tell if mine is off and usually why it is off.

That and it never hurts to have some Guinness on tap...

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:rockin: Love some Guinness myself

Let me explain my point this way. I'm a technical person. So I look at the open source software as my example. GPL for instance....I can take someone's code as a baseline (aka Cloning) then modify it for my needs...As long as I give credit to the one before me then it's okay to do....

Same thing with cloning a beer...If you call it totally your own recipe if you use someother beers as a starting point and don't give credit your wrong....So nothing wrong with cloning a beer because it sounds like we all do it No Matter What Country the Homebrewer is From.....

johnnyboy1965 said:

So if you find a beer you like to drink (bottle/pub/whatever) is it not better to drink that beer than try to replicate it ?

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I never clone. If anything I may take some inspration from a bottled beer I consume (Oooh that's tasy. Oh Citra hops. Never used that one before) but I have never tried to duplicate a bought beer.

In fact, I have never brewed a beer from any ones recipe. I brew cause I like the "playtime discovery".

sort of like being a kid who decides to mush rice crispies into you balogna sammich to see what it'd taste like. To see what it lends to the party.

I brew to create. Not to duplicate. But, that does not mean I don't see the value in cloning a beer.

Im not saying that there is anything wrong with cloning a beer, and if you can do it, congratulations.
What Im saying is "why would you want to do it"
Cost ... Im still not sure
Logistics.....Yes, I agree (but it must have been an acceptional beer)
Skill/Craft... I agree

I make clone beers as I'm still trying to improve my process of making beer. Using a clone recipe tells me what to expect and, if the result is different, I can analyze the situation to determine what in my brewing process caused the difference. Improving quality is all about controlling the variables.

I've already started making SMaSH beers to learn hop flavors, and I will eventually start doing the same to learn malt flavors. At that point, I'll try making my own recipes.

EDIT: You just answered the question I had...

My aplogies, Jay, I mean no offense and you seem to be on edge with this topic but, I view a clone as an identical copy of an original. Grain for grain, freckle for freckle, flaw for flaw.

Producing something similar within the range is just that. But it is not a clone.

Granted that in the history of brewing it is doubtful that there is any combination that has not been tried. Yes, respect is politacally correct when you take a recipe, for anything, as a base but that does not constitute a clone if you change anything about that recipe. Even if it is simply the ratio.

With each recipe I brew, I take what I have on hand and my experience plus some research and devise what I think is an acceptible combination. Occasionally, the result is a product that is uncannily similar to a packaged product despite having no prior knowledge of the packaged composition. This, is not a clone. This is chance.

My two cents.

Johnny I hear you .... In your brain your thinking why bother?....In my brain I'm thinking why not?

Cloning just seems like a natural process to start.

I use commercial beers as a base line. When I start crafting a beer, I start by making a clone recipe, then change what I think I want to change about the beer. It is how my artistic mind works. I have to be grounded in reality for the changes I am making to make sense.

brewagentjay said:

Johnny I hear you .... In your brain your thinking why bother?....In my brain I'm thinking why not?

Cloning just seems like a natural process to start.

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I agree...you do have to have a base linre to start...
Malted Barley, Hops, Water , Yeast.
The combinations are endless. Now its up to you.

johnnyboy1965 said:

Why would any HB want to clone a beer.

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Because, contrary to the whole "indie-rock wanting to be different from everyone else, everything mainstream sucks" mentality, there are breweries out there that make much better beer than your or I.

Synovia said:

Because, contrary to the whole "indie-rock wanting to be different from everyone else, everything mainstream sucks" mentality, there are breweries out there that make much better beer than your or I.

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NO NO NO they dont.. They make a product that they can sell. None of my beers have ever, or will be sold

Speaking to the cost issue, if you brew the right kind of beer, it really can be more cost effective. My buddy loves Avery beers, so he and I sat down and figured out a clone of The Reverend (see my recipes). When all is said and done, it tastes pretty close and we have the pride of ownership over it, so that goes to the craft/skill aspect everyone else talked about. However, the cost savings is also just huge. Assuming $5.99 per bomber of The Rev, we made the equivalent of $190 worth of beer...all for $60.

Some might respond that you have to also consider the time and equipment costs, but (a) time spent brewing is enjoyable, so I don't view it as a "cost"; and (b) I paid back my equipment costs a few batches ago by the overall savings from brewing in large batches.

I'm not saying brewing a clone will always end up costing you less, but if it is something you really enjoy and it is an expensive style of beer, then cost comes into play.

Finally, examining cloning overall, I think you have to look at why some people brew. Many do it as a creative outlet, a way to experiment and produce never before seen beers. Others (like myself) do it in order to have a ready supply of really tasty beer that we feel proud to drink and serve. With that mindset, cloning a beer makes sense because it justifies why you do this hobby. Going with a tried and true recipe supplies you with beer you know you like and lets you experiment with the next batch.

simply put - because i want to make a beer that is close to that original beer.

of course there's a ton of reasons why any individual might want to do that. these reasons my or may not be acceptable or understood by you, but they are to that individual.

its homebrew. its my beer, my way, for my reasons.

I've only done 3 batches - my second was an Old Speckled Hen clone.
for some insight as to why.
the girlfriend likes OSH, so I thought I'd make her something she'd enjoy. I also like it.
I rarely find OSH around here, and when I do, its in clear glass and often not good b/c of it(skunked).
Now I've got a foundation to work from. If the recipe is good, I'll use it again. if it needs some tweaking, I'll change somethign and see how it works. repeat ad nauseum until I've got it nailed down where I want it.
Being new to brewing, I've got to start somewhere. clones, ingredient kits, and others recipes are the best place to start. As experience grows, I'll learn more and more about he process and ingredients and start doing my own thing, but even then, the mood will likely strike me to make a clone, and then 'improve' it, atleast in my eyes.