Lets talk Stouts/Nitro

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

mdf191

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Messages
165
Reaction score
0
Location
State College Pa
I had a Youngs Double Choc Stout in a can today. I have had and really enjoyed draft versions of Young Dc before. What suprised me was that the can version had a the same qualities as most stouts carbed with nitrogen like the tap versions of guiness, and youngs DC. The caned version did have some sort of pressurized widget that was obviously helping the pour situation, but are these beers as well as guiness bottles carbed with nitrogen and then bottled?
Pretty much what I am getting at is... I have a desperate desire to pour a homebrewed kegged stout that is thick and creamy like these nitrogen infused bad boys, but I dont want to shell out the mulla for a n2 tank! IS THERE ANY OTHER WAY. I know malto dex and lactose may help a bit, but does anyone have any other suggestions. I have a pretty good feeling feeling that I already know the answer you guys are going to give...and that is ..no nitrogen = no thick and creamy stout. But despite this ....maybe .....just maybe....someone knows something about this i dont!?
 
I hear you brother. I have a choc mint stout about to go into secondary. It's one of the best crazy concoctions I've ever come up with, and yet fails to get the same creamy, frothy pour Young's and Guinness have. I have a special stout tap on order, but I think it's only a waste of money at this point. I'll keep my fingers crossed with you.
 
Can you post the recipe for that Chocolate Mint Stout? That sounds REALLY Tasty!!!!!
 
Unfortunately, I don't know of anything other than nitrogen which will give you that result. And nitrogen is distressingly difficult to introduce into finished beer, because of the pressures required. You can't just put on top-pressure, chill it, and wait - like CO2 - you really need a carbonization (nitrogenation?) stone. Frankly, I was never able to get it to work to my satisfaction as a professional brewer, much less at home.

BadKarmaa - the stout tap will look cool, but it really isn't going to help, I'm afraid. In fact, you'd better disassemble it and remove the sparkler; it's going to foam your carbonated beer all over the place. ;) Unless, of course, you undercarbonate and serve your stout like a real ale.

Sometimes I really hate nitrogen beers. :) We all love them and want to make our own, and get disheartened when we can't.

Of course, I might be unaware of some widget (pardon the pun) now available in the homebrew market which permits nitrogenation. I certainly hope so!
 
While not perfect, if you pour a glass of stout gently( very little head) then use a meat injector to draw off a little and keeping the tip submerged in the beer quickly push the plunger of the injector. It will give you a nice thick creamy head on your beer.
 
mikeyc said:
Can you post the recipe for that Chocolate Mint Stout? That sounds REALLY Tasty!!!!!
It's still a work in progress.....The finishing hops can probably go, and I think it could use a bit more chocolatie goodness. Also might modify the grain bill just to get a higher potential gravity for alcohol content. My OG have been around 1.050 and finish at 1.016. Feel free to scrutinize and/or make suggestions.

Winter Wonderland Chocolate Mint Stout

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

13-B Stout, Sweet Stout

Min OG: 1.042 Max OG: 1.056
Min IBU: 25 Max IBU: 48
Min Clr: 30 Max Clr: 60 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.00 Wort Size (Gal): 5.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 11.50
Anticipated OG: 1.059 Plato: 14.51
Anticipated SRM: 61.2
Anticipated IBU: 46.9
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes



Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
73.9 8.50 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) America 1.036 2
8.7 1.00 lbs. Roasted Barley America 1.028 450
8.7 1.00 lbs. Chocolate Malt America 1.029 350
4.3 0.50 lbs. Crystal 90L America 1.033 90
4.3 0.50 lbs. Black Patent Malt America 1.028 525

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
2.00 oz. Fuggle Plug 5.00 43.7 60 min.
0.25 oz. Cascade Plug 5.75 2.1 20 min.
0.25 oz. Cascade Plug 5.75 1.0 5 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.75 Cup(s) cocoa Powder Spice 30 Min.(mash)


Yeast
-----

WYeast 1056 Amercan Ale/Chico



Notes
-----

3/4 cup cocoa powder - last 30 min of boil

1 oz dried spearmint leaves in
secondary

condition 14 days
 
mikeyc said:
Can you post the recipe for that Chocolate Mint Stout? That sounds REALLY Tasty!!!!!
So now my joke about priming a holiday ale with candy canes doesn't sound so funny.:drunk:
 
i really think guinness has moved stout away from what it was traditionally. try the export at the very least. these over pressuriezed kegs and widgets cans served at cold temps are not really what stout was about, at least imho.
 
What makes a stout taste like a stout is the fact that the CO2 has been knocked down to negligible levels during the pour.

The simple “more head = flatter beer” equation can work with the syringe method, or doing what I do…simply double pouring the beer.

I have an oatmeal on tap that is fully carb’d and unless I pour a pint, let rest for 1 minute and re-pour into another glass, it’s way too over carbonated. Otherwise, that “flattening” really smoothes out the beer and the flavor comes through.

Do a taste comparison. One glass freshly drawn from the tap (or bottle) and another that has been “at rest” after a double pour. You’ll taste the difference.
 
Damn I love Youngs Double Chocolate.. Can't wait till I can brew proper. Kind of saw though, the head/creamy body is the best part really. I had no clue it was No2 specific..

BM, what about a single pour but leaving the glass still for 5-10 minutes? That's what I do with all my beers now, taste great!
 
El_Borracho said:
Damn I love Youngs Double Chocolate.. Can't wait till I can brew proper. Kind of saw though, the head/creamy body is the best part really. I had no clue it was No2 specific..

BM, what about a single pour but leaving the glass still for 5-10 minutes? That's what I do with all my beers now, taste great!
That works for me too...depending on the starting CO2 levels. The double pour just speeds things up a bit and allows you to sip with a frothy head.
 
That's a killer way to do it BM. I was just pouring in with very high pressure and splashing as much as possible... I like the double pour, gonna have to do that from now on.
 
maybe a little off topic, but would someone care to explain what exactly the N2 does that makes the head so thick and creamy? what affect does it have that the CO2 can't do?
 
the N2 does nothing....NOTHING!!! In fact thats the reason why they use it. What makes the beer different than pouring out of a normal tap is the restrictor plate in the tap. This little plate has a bunch of tiny holes in it. This forces the CO2 out of suspention in about the size of the holes so tiny bubbles. This is what makes the head last for so long along with the protein added by the raw barley in the recipe. The N2 doesn't get into the beer comma all it does is make the pressure higher in the keg and not over carb the beer. The beer needs to be "forced" out of the tap and if you used 30 psi of CO2 you would have nothing but foam. Using N2/CO2 lets you push the beer with about 30 psi and not have to worry about over carbing.

Let me say this again N2 does not go into the beer. It is the faucet that gives you the mouth feel.
 
sause said:
...all it does is make the pressure higher in the keg and not over carb the beer...
This is why most brew pubs that push their beer long distances will go with nitrogen to push. Imagine pushing a beer from the cellar to the second story of a micro-pub. The pressure would be enormous and that beer would quickly absorb the CO2 and over carb.

If restrictor faucets weren't some darn expensive...I'd get one.

Sounds like a DIY project for Yuri.
 
Guinnes recently introduced this vibrating plate that foams up their beer, maybe you can look into stealing, I mean getting one of those from a local bar.
 
BierMuncher said:
If restrictor faucets weren't some darn expensive...I'd get one.
I've got one that was part of a CL score, but I don't want to pop for a nitrogen tank and regulator. Nor do I have room in the kegerator for another tank.

For now, I just bottle my stout, go light on the priming sugar and pour it high above the glass to achieve a nice foamy head. As for the faucet...I took the restrictor plate out, and serve Apfelwein from it. :D
 
sause said:
the N2 does nothing....NOTHING!!! In fact thats the reason why they use it. What makes the beer different than pouring out of a normal tap is the restrictor plate in the tap. This little plate has a bunch of tiny holes in it. This forces the CO2 out of suspention in about the size of the holes so tiny bubbles. This is what makes the head last for so long along with the protein added by the raw barley in the recipe. The N2 doesn't get into the beer comma all it does is make the pressure higher in the keg and not over carb the beer. The beer needs to be "forced" out of the tap and if you used 30 psi of CO2 you would have nothing but foam. Using N2/CO2 lets you push the beer with about 30 psi and not have to worry about over carbing.

Let me say this again N2 does not go into the beer. It is the faucet that gives you the mouth feel.

YES!!!!! that was my suspicion, given what i know about gases combined with what BM said about CO2 getting knocked out of the beer. a little, timid, light bulb went off in my head. thanks for filling in the details!
 
mdf191 said:
Pretty much what I am getting at is... I have a desperate desire to pour a homebrewed kegged stout that is thick and creamy like these nitrogen infused bad boys, but I dont want to shell out the mulla for a n2 tank! IS THERE ANY OTHER WAY.!?

Check out the Tap-a-Draft system. I've only used it on an american cream ale but it was awesome. They say use one co2 and one nitrogen cartridge for a creamy stout head...

Most people seem happy with them and apparently you can use soda pop bottles with it too. Look here for a discussion.
 
BobNQ3X said:
Unfortunately, I don't know of anything other than nitrogen which will give you that result. And nitrogen is distressingly difficult to introduce into finished beer, because of the pressures required. You can't just put on top-pressure, chill it, and wait - like CO2 - you really need a carbonization (nitrogenation?) stone. Frankly, I was never able to get it to work to my satisfaction as a professional brewer, much less at home.

BadKarmaa - the stout tap will look cool, but it really isn't going to help, I'm afraid. In fact, you'd better disassemble it and remove the sparkler; it's going to foam your carbonated beer all over the place. ;) Unless, of course, you undercarbonate and serve your stout like a real ale.

Sometimes I really hate nitrogen beers. :) We all love them and want to make our own, and get disheartened when we can't.

Of course, I might be unaware of some widget (pardon the pun) now available in the homebrew market which permits nitrogenation. I certainly hope so!

We nitro almost all of our homebrew and they all turn out great... no difference between our nitros and the commercial ones. The technique we use is exactly the one you describe above... pressurize, roll it around, wait a day or two. As others have pointed out, you do need a stout faucet, the correct gas, and higher pressures.
 
I'm currently in the planning stages of building a ginormous kegerator and am thinking of adding a stout faucet. Just wondering though if you need a longer run of beer line due to the high pressure or does the restrictor plate on the stout faucet take care of that for you?
 
The tap requires you to have that high of pressure. I would put the faucet on the on position on then turn up the pressure until the beer comes put like you want it.
 
I love my nitro tap :rockin:

Homebrew stout:
5923-100_0804.JPG
 
can you run Nitro instead of Co2 for all beers? I'm a stout lover, but I would also like to brew and keg wheat beers..
 
Back
Top