First All Grain with a BIAB

Check my technique below:

I have:
8 gallon kettle
2 gallon kettle
1 gallon kettle

I am brewing this recipe:

http://hopville.com/recipe/1533613/saison-recipes/sugar-snaps

With about 12 lbs of grain or less and 1 quart per lb I can do a thick mash in the bag with the 8 gallon kettle . My next thought is the best way to get good sparging. I was aiming at dunk sparging in the 2 gallon kettle then pour sparging that same bag of grains in a colander over the 8 gallon kettle making sure I hit my 6 gallon pre-boil volume. Do I check gravity by putting the hydrometer in that pre-boil volume? I'm not planning on doing an iodine test. I will be mashing at 153-155 and keeping it there via insulation and towels for about 90 minutes or 60, I'm not sure what time is right.

Thanks again!

Ps: I've pretty much re-reviewed all the partial mash and biab resources here and elsewhere by forum and vid.

I brewed BIAB for awhile...I found on smaller beers (less then 1.050) I had no issues. With a fine crush on the grain 75-80% efficiency is possible. However, I never did a sparge with I did BIAB....I would take out my bag and basket and sit it over a bucket and allow it to drain for 20-30 minutes....usuaully collecting close to a half gallon of wort. Then I would toss it into the boil....

I had good results with BIAB except when I tried a bigger beer and like a 15lb grain bill...what a nightmare...

Maybe my dunk sparge vessel will need to be 4 gallons to hold the bag so I could pick this up with a 20% off coupon : http://www.harborfreight.com/stainless-steel-4-piece-stock-pot-set-94829.html

70-80% ? Thats awesome! Yea I would never try anything with more that 13 lbs of grain. All my favorites will need to be extract with specialty grains, too high a gravity for BIAB. I've always sparged my specialty grains with great results so the technique is very familiar to me. It's amazing how much more "tea" I extract that way actually.

djbradle said:

Maybe my dunk sparge vessel will need to be 4 gallons to hold the bag so I could pick this up with a 20% off coupon : http://www.harborfreight.com/stainless-steel-4-piece-stock-pot-set-94829.html

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I've dunk sparged in a fermenting bucket before. Just boiled up some water to 170° and poured it over my grain bag in the bucket. Then I put the lid on it and let it sit for 15 minutes. Worked fine.

I have a 9 gallon pot and have done 15.5 lbs for a 1.077 beer. Wasn't easy but I did do a mini sparge with about half the grains. My biggest problem is pulling the bag out.......gotta use a collander and remove a little at a time into another bag. Luckily, most of the beers I brew (IPA) are 13 or under and work out very well.
I have a Barley Crusher and set on factory default, it crushes awesome. I average about 80% efficiency with no sparging but I do let me grains drip for a long while as the boil gets going and that seems to work well.

So what are your thoughts on what the volume will be if I stick with 1.25 quarts per lb? Close to the top of the 8 gallon kettle?



13 lbs of grain x 1.25 quarts per lb will be 15 quarts so a 4 gallon strike water volume will cut it well. Surely that bag will swell to an enormous weight which I'm fully capable of lifting. I have no trouble carrying the 8 gallon pot with 6 plus gallons of wort up and down the stairs.

LLBeanJ said:

I've dunk sparged in a fermenting bucket before. Just boiled up some water to 170° and poured it over my grain bag in the bucket. Then I put the lid on it and let it sit for 15 minutes. Worked fine.

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Excellent idea!

This link will tell you what you want to know:
http://www.buildabeer.org/beerquickcalc.php

At 1.25 Q/LB you can use the 8 gallon pot.

I wonder if your mashing will be less efficient at 1.0 Qt/LB compared to 1.25? Will it be harder to gelatinize the sugars? (I read that in a paper on HBT somewhere). Or maybe its a positive , as the enzymes are concentrated.

I do BIAB, but since my stove burners are weak, I use two 5 gallon pots.
I am soon going to brew a Bourbon Barrel Old Ale with a 16.5 lb grain bill.

This is my question as well in terms of efficiency with water volume to grain weight. With 1.25 quarts it will be thick and with just 1 quart the mash will be very thick but it's all in a bag and with two sparges I expect to pull almost all the sugars out as long as my volumes are correct. With 4 gallons of strike water and 2.5 gallons of sparge water for dunk and pour I expect to come up with very close to 6.5 gallons to start the boil. Some water will be kept by the spent grains but how much I don't know.

I think, in your case, using 2 pots is your best bet. I can barely do the 15 in my 9 gallon pot and then I do a mini sparge. I don't do this with 13 lbs or less and have done well. I don't see the need to spend money on another larger pot but what you want to do with 2 is what many others do as well.

Sounds good. I'll try the bucket trick since that holds 6.5 gallons and sparge with the 2 gallon pot.

djbradle said:

Check my technique below:

I have:
8 gallon kettle
2 gallon kettle
1 gallon kettle

I am brewing this recipe:

http://hopville.com/recipe/1533613/saison-recipes/sugar-snaps

With about 12 lbs of grain or less and 1 quart per lb I can do a thick mash in the bag with the 8 gallon kettle . My next thought is the best way to get good sparging. I was aiming at dunk sparging in the 2 gallon kettle then pour sparging that same bag of grains in a colander over the 8 gallon kettle making sure I hit my 6 gallon pre-boil volume. Do I check gravity by putting the hydrometer in that pre-boil volume? I'm not planning on doing an iodine test. I will be mashing at 153-155 and keeping it there via insulation and towels for about 90 minutes or 60, I'm not sure what time is right.

Thanks again!

Ps: I've pretty much re-reviewed all the partial mash and biab resources here and elsewhere by forum and vid.

Click to expand...

I do pretty much that when I BIAB. I mash in either my 5 or 7 gal boil kettle, depending on batch size. I then heat sparge water in a 3 gal kettle. After the mash, I 'dunk' sparge and then rinse the grains in a colander over the boil kettle with the sparge water/wort.
To take my pre boil reading, after I fill the kettle to the pre boil volume I pull a hydrometer sample and correct it for temperature.
Mash time and temp will be dependent on recipe. Wrapping the kettle/mashtun in a towel is a good idea. Doing that, I can hold temps within a couple degrees for 60-90 mins. It also helps to have a pot of hot water and some cool water on hand in case you need to adjust temps.

So should I do a 30, 60, or 90 minute mash? Is the temp the deciding factor?

>>So should I do a 30, 60, or 90 minute mash? Is the temp the deciding factor?

I suggest start with a 60 minute mash your first time.
In theory, most of the conversion is done in the first 15 minutes, but you will get a bit more conversion going to 60 minutes.
Higher temperature results in faster conversion, but also denatures Beta Amylase resulting in a ticker but less fermentable wort.

I'm not understanding the mash volume problem, with an 8 gallon kettle you should be able to mash way more grain. Check out the "can I mash it" calculator at green bay rackers: http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml/

12lbs at 1.5 qts/lb should only take up 5.5 gallons of space. I'm mashing 24lbs @ 1qt/lb in my 8 gallon kettle this weekend (BIAB also).

Really? 24 lbs? I'm interjecting mostly in that I think that when the grain is added the volume will increase from swelling grain. I'll be doing 1.25 quarts with 4.71 gallons of strike water in the 8 gallon kettle.

I've got the kettle marked inside and outside for gallons. Maybe the grain taking up water and swelling by this method doesn't add much of a increase in volume as I previously thought. Anyway to calculate the volume increase?

From your 24 lbs of grain greenbay rackers calls for 7.92 gallons of strike water for 1.0 quarts/lb. How full does your kettle get?

ArcLight said:

>>So should I do a 30, 60, or 90 minute mash? Is the temp the deciding factor?

I suggest start with a 60 minute mash your first time.
In theory, most of the conversion is done in the first 15 minutes, but you will get a bit more conversion going to 60 minutes.
Higher temperature results in faster conversion, but also denatures Beta Amylase resulting in a ticker but less fermentable wort.

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Good to know. I'm doing this to get away from thick dextrinous extract brewing anyways and go for a fresher more commercial taste (if I can even get there my first time). Even with extract I was able to get nice low FG's but with this biab method it really doesn't add much more time and saves a little bit of money. I was already steeping for at least 30 minutes anyways and then bringing to boil a 5-6 gallon batch for 60 more minutes.

Anyone know how I can tell how much sparge water to heat in the second vessel? If 4.71 gallons are in the strike and the full grain bag drains over that for a bit and then is transferred to the second sparge vessel for dunking, how much "dunk" water will I need? I would rather under shoot the dunk volume and then pour sparge to finish up the pre-boil volume. Not sure how . . .Does it depend solely on how much water is retained by the grains?

I should note that total pre-boil volume for my 5-5.75 gallon batches with extract were respectively 5.5-6.25 gallons for a 60 minute boil. This is my total loss for that 60 minutes, about .5 gallons. Maybe my sparge water should be 6.25 ga - 4.71 ga = 1.54 ga to make a 5.75 ga batch?

djbradle said:

I've got the kettle marked inside and outside for gallons. Maybe the grain taking up water and swelling by this method doesn't add much of a increase in volume as I previously thought. Anyway to calculate the volume increase?

From your 24 lbs of grain greenbay rackers calls for 7.92 gallons of strike water for 1.0 quarts/lb. How full does your kettle get?

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100% full. That's the absolute max and you have to be super careful pulling the bag out or you're losing wort all over the ground, plus it's damn heavy. Certainly a two-person BIAB, but I do 15 pounders all the time by myself.

Nice. I'll try myself one day if I can get another body to help. Any idea on my sparge question ?

daksin said:

100% full. That's the absolute max and you have to be super careful pulling the bag out or you're losing wort all over the ground, plus it's damn heavy. Certainly a two-person BIAB, but I do 15 pounders all the time by myself.

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When mashing in the kettle I believe its a good idea to use as much water as you can initially. The more water you have the easier it is to hold mash temp. I use the "can I mash it" calculator posted above get within a couple of inches to the top.

Last brew I tried something different. I "sparged" with a couple of gallons of cold water in a bucket. I had already mashed out the bag 10 minutes at 170. The 2 gallons cooled the bag to the point that I could squeeze it better than before. The cold water seemed to rinse more sugar out of the grain.

djbradle said:

Nice. I'll try myself one day if I can get another body to help. Any idea on my sparge question ?

Click to expand...

I would start with 6 gallons and sparge with 2. With grain absorption and boil off that should net around 5.5 gallons of Wort.

So 6 gallons of strike and 2 gallons of sparge? My boil off is only about .25-.5 gallons an hour boil. I boil on two gas burners on my kitchen stove. I'm afraid that would have to be a very long boil to get to 5.5, ya think?

>>Anyone know how I can tell how much sparge water to heat in the second vessel? If 4.71 gallons are in the strike and the full grain bag drains over that for a bit and then is transferred to the second sparge vessel for dunking, how much "dunk" water will I need? I would rather under shoot the dunk volume and then pour sparge to finish up the pre-boil volume. Not sure how . . .Does it depend solely on how much water is retained by the grains?

>>I should note that total pre-boil volume for my 5-5.75 gallon batches with extract were respectively 5.5-6.25 gallons for a 60 minute boil. This is my total loss for that 60 minutes, about .5 gallons. Maybe my sparge water should be 6.25 ga - 4.71 ga = 1.54 ga to make a 5.75 ga batch?

1. expect to lose at least 0.06 gallons per pound of grain - but only if you let the bag drip and squeeze, else extra water is trapped. That .06 is a minimum, and it can be more.
With 12 pounds of grain, you will lose at least 3 quarts, let call it a gallon.

2. You want to mash with 15 quarts (1.25Q/lb), losing 4 = 9 quarts of wort. Plus what ever you get from your sparge. If its in 2 pots and each has 5 quarts, thats another 10 quarts more or less. Thats 15 quarts of mash and 10 quarts of sparge water. You will end up with close to 21 quarts, and need a little more for boil off.

3. Boil of is per pot, not total. I would expect you to lose at least .75gals if you boil in 2 pots. The good news is if you end up with less than 5 gallons, just pour in some cold water after chilling.


>>Last brew I tried something different. I "sparged" with a couple of gallons of cold water in a bucket. I had already mashed out the bag 10 minutes at 170. The 2 gallons cooled the bag to the point that I could squeeze it better than before. The cold water seemed to rinse more sugar out of the grain.

How water will get more sugar out than cold. What you need are some heat resistant gloves. Dish washing gloves are not good enough. Home Depot sells a pair for $6
like these:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/cat...=None&Ntpr=1&Ntpc=1&selectedCatgry=SEARCH+ALL


I do stove top BIAB with two bags and 5 gallon pots. A bit of a hassle, but it works.

Thanks for all the help everyone and for the pm Arclight. This is exciting to start and I'm getting a good headstart from you all.

I'll be only using my 8 gallon kettle for the boil so my water loss will be different.

I am new to all grain and I'm using the BIABG method, do I have to add more grain to my grain bill? I have read that because of the low efficiency that you must add 1/3 more of each grain. Is that true?

coonz said:

I am new to all grain and I'm using the BIABG method, do I have to add more grain to my grain bill? I have read that because of the low efficiency that you must add 1/3 more of each grain. Is that true?

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Not sure where you've heard that BIAB efficiency is inherently low, but that's just not true, IME. If you crush the grains properly, mash at the proper temps, with the right amount of water to grain and mash at the proper pH, your efficiency should be just fine. I regularly have mash eff's in the low 80's doing BIAB batches.

NordeastBrewer77 said:

Not sure where you've heard that BIAB efficiency is inherently low, but that's just not true, IME. If you crush the grains properly, mash at the proper temps, with the right amount of water to grain and mash at the proper pH, your efficiency should be just fine. I regularly have mash eff's in the low 80's doing BIAB batches.

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+1, same here

Ok thank, so I don't don't have to add any extra grain to my bill? If I use a recipe that is made for normal mash tuns.

Thanks

coonz said:

Ok thank, so I don't don't have to add any extra grain to my bill? If I use a recipe that is made for normal mash tuns.

Thanks

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I never do, just get a really fine crush. I run mine through the blender, it comes out with a corn meal consistency.

coonz said:

Ok thank, so I don't don't have to add any extra grain to my bill? If I use a recipe that is made for normal mash tuns.

Thanks

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Most recipes are written for ~70% mash eff., so unless you're getting lower than that with BIAB, there's no real need to adjust the grain bill. Like we said, a good, fine crush will do wonders. I mill mine at home, my mill's set for ~.042.

I don't mill mine, they are milled by the shop I use. But using the blender might work. Thank you again for clearing this up for me. How much water do u normally lose during the final boil?

coonz said:

I don't mill mine, they are milled by the shop I use. But using the blender might work. Thank you again for clearing this up for me. How much water do u normally lose during the final boil?

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Just tell the shop that's milling your grains that you're a BIAB brewer and you need a very fine crush, or that they should mill the grains twice to ensure they're crushed properly for you.
Your boil off rate will vary depending on a number of factors; kettle size, boil strength, atmospheric conditions, etc. General rule of thumb is ~1 gal/hr, but that's not exact. Try a dry (wet) run by boiling water for an hour in your kettle, chill as you would wort and see what your losses are.

NordeastBrewer77 said:

Just tell the shop that's milling your grains that you're a BIAB brewer and you need a very fine crush, or that they should mill the grains twice to ensure they're crushed properly for you.
Your boil off rate will vary depending on a number of factors; kettle size, boil strength, atmospheric conditions, etc. General rule of thumb is ~1 gal/hr, but that's not exact. Try a dry (wet) run by boiling water for an hour in your kettle, chill as you would wort and see what your losses are.

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+1 this is a great idea to dial in your brew house efficiency. I lose about 1/4-1/2 gallon a hour with my setup.

djbradle said:

+1 this is a great idea to dial in your brew house efficiency. I lose about 1/4-1/2 gallon a hour with my setup.

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For me, it depends on if I'm brewing in the garage or the kitchen because of the difference in humidity, and it varies by season. In the winter, indoors, I boil off a lot compared to in the summer in or outdoors. I've only been doing AG and full boils since last summer/fall, so I'm still dialing it in. Like I said, a gal/hr is a good starting point, but on one of my last brews, on a really hot, muggy day, I boiled off significantly less than I planned on and missed my OG by a few points.

Ok this might be a dumb question but just needed to get it cleared. If I end up with losing more water than I thought can I just add the water to the fermenter and wort before pinching the yeast? I know it might water it down but just wanted some good brewers opinions.

Thanks

coonz said:

Ok this might be a dumb question but just needed to get it cleared. If I end up with losing more water than I thought can I just add the water to the fermenter and wort before pinching the yeast? I know it might water it down but just wanted some good brewers opinions.

Thanks

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Do you mean loss to grain in the mash or boil off? If I lose more than expected in the mash, I compensate by topping up the boil more to get to my pre boil volume. If I boil off too much, depending on how high I overshot the OG, I may add a bit more water to get to my fermenter volume.

Just the boil off, I only have a 5 gal pot so I can't put in 6.5 gals. So I might have to top off the fermenter to get it at 5gals total.