Go to my thread https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/apple-wine-apple-jack-200840/
and tell me if you think i should shake it or not.
and tell me if you think i should shake it or not.
To shake or not to shake
- Thread starter Brewho
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
I wrote this earlier today, you might want to take it to heart. Just change the word "beer" with "cider" or "currently fermenting beverage I am obsessing over." 
That should give you MY answer.
That should give you MY answer.
ok pitched the yeast wednesday night, and the bubbling is still very very sparse,like once every 10 15 seconds. There is a slight layer forming onthe top, but shouldnt there be more by now. it still looks like the ram grain sugar i put in is sittin at the bottum. Can someone give me some feedback without this snobby attitude of "just let it ferment" "yeastknows what its doing" blah blah blah thousands of years" I am letting it ferment. i am not staying up at night worrying. Im just asking some questions to get a better idea. isnt vigerous fermentation usually a better sign?
Be sure to shake, but it is critical you shake in a predominantly anti-clockwise fashion, otherwise the yeast get confused and produce BMC in your beer.
Brewho - you're not going to make any friends here with that attitude. Revvy was just offering some insightful advice. He has helped many, many people on this site. I can assure you nothing snobbish was meant by it. Perhaps you require a more direct response....well here goes...don't mess with it when the yeast is working!
ok let me retract the word snob if it causes discontent. but i notice this attitude here of "chill out dude stop stressing about it and drink some home made beer" and it seems to me to be either a cop out for lack of a good answer or a "hoppier than though" knee jerk attitude towards the novice" When im asking a question its because im curious and want to learn more about brewing and how to do it right. I lost dave millers home brewingbook , so i am forced to find my answers here.
thank you Beowulf for giving me the direct answer i needed.
When i poured the cider into the carboy it probably recieved some aeration but perhaps not enough. I think i will probably take beowulfs advice though and let the yeast sit. it is valuble information to know that yeast doesnt want to be shaken. because simple logic would say the more aeration the better. I am guessing however that the krausen needs to stay a cake at the top and doesnt want to get mixed into the beer. are my assumptions correct?
Thanks for your responses and happy brewing.
thank you Beowulf for giving me the direct answer i needed.
When i poured the cider into the carboy it probably recieved some aeration but perhaps not enough. I think i will probably take beowulfs advice though and let the yeast sit. it is valuble information to know that yeast doesnt want to be shaken. because simple logic would say the more aeration the better. I am guessing however that the krausen needs to stay a cake at the top and doesnt want to get mixed into the beer. are my assumptions correct?
Thanks for your responses and happy brewing.
The thing is, all of us have been exactly where you're at, not so long ago. We really do understand that you want to see a thick layer of churning kreusen, you want it now, and you want to know how to get it. Well, we can't give it to you. We can't tell you what to do, because there really is nothing to do. You're starting to see the layer form, so things are actually looking good. It might even be that while you take the time to read this, a massive blowoff is covering your ceiling with foam.
Be sure to take pictures if that happens.
Enjoy!
Be sure to take pictures if that happens.
Enjoy!
"full of.......ninjas?"
The reason you keep getting that response is that there are A LOT of posts where people tend to want to mess with the fermenting beer before it's done. I'm no exception...guilty as charged. I'm sure I've read the scientific reasons for not shaking while it's fermenting, but I can't recall the details...the net result is that yeast needs to be given time to do it's job. The only time I've heard recommendations to shake or swirl (gently) is if fermentation is not occurring at all. I'm sure if you do a quick search on the site you'll probably find hundreds of posts that address this same topic.
The reason you keep getting that response is that there are A LOT of posts where people tend to want to mess with the fermenting beer before it's done. I'm no exception...guilty as charged. I'm sure I've read the scientific reasons for not shaking while it's fermenting, but I can't recall the details...the net result is that yeast needs to be given time to do it's job. The only time I've heard recommendations to shake or swirl (gently) is if fermentation is not occurring at all. I'm sure if you do a quick search on the site you'll probably find hundreds of posts that address this same topic.
soundsandsuds
Well-Known Member
The reason you don't shake while it's fermenting is because it's too late. The oxygen helps in the yeast's reproduction, not fermentation. They've now reproduced according to the amount of sugar around them and the oxygen available to them.
+1 on the chill out. I didn't pick up any snobby or negative vibes from Revvy's posts, but pick up a lot from yours.
He was nice enough to answer your question despite the fact that you couldn't be bothered to do a search on the forum to see if it has been answered before. (It has. Pretty much daily.) Answering the same questions over and over is tiresome, but Revvy does answer nearly all of them with the most useful advice you're likely to get and he's willing to do it far after most have tired of answering the same question. If Revvy gives you advice take it and thank him.
+1 on the chill out. I didn't pick up any snobby or negative vibes from Revvy's posts, but pick up a lot from yours.
He was nice enough to answer your question despite the fact that you couldn't be bothered to do a search on the forum to see if it has been answered before. (It has. Pretty much daily.) Answering the same questions over and over is tiresome, but Revvy does answer nearly all of them with the most useful advice you're likely to get and he's willing to do it far after most have tired of answering the same question. If Revvy gives you advice take it and thank him.
dude, this forum will give you 100 times the amount of info/advice any book can give.
I thought in the northern hemisphere we had to shake it in a clockwise fashion. I think you have to shake it counterclockwise in the southern hemisphere.
Discontent? Nah, seems more like insight and comments regarding your own egotism, impatience, and apparent ignorance of the forum search feature.
Captain Damage
Well-Known Member
+1 to this! HBT is a goldmine of information and advice. You have the added advantage that if someone explains something in a way that isn't clear to you, someone else will explain it another way that's easier to understand.
Plus, I have the Miller book and frankly it's very out of date and not very good for beginners.
I'm sorry you misinterpreted some of the earlier responses to your question. You will find that often - but not always - the answer is something like "Just leave it alone and don't mess with it." But keep asking questions and keep brewing!
kstater
Active Member
Ok, here's what you do to get the yeast active again. Get you a bucket, pick your carboy up real high and turn it over so the contents pour into the bucket. The higher the better. As the contents splash down into the bucket, the yeast will mix back in with the wort. Be careful that you don't spill any. Transfer back to carboy.
Captain Damage
Well-Known Member
KSTATER - C'mon man, your sarcasm isn't helping. Brewho, you shouldn't do this for two reasons: 1) you're risking the introduction of an infection, 2) you're adding lots of oxygen at a time when it's a bad thing. Oxygen before fermentation starts = good; oxygen during and after fermentation = bad.
NDSGR - He's asking about a cider. We usually don't put hops in cider on purpose.
NDSGR - He's asking about a cider. We usually don't put hops in cider on purpose.
mc_eric
Well-Known Member
+1 to this.
Keep in mind that he is making cider w/ champagne yeast. I've never done this, but I have a feeling that it is NOT going to look like beer fermenting w/ ale yeast. Odds are that it IS just fine and that the yeast is fermenting normally. It may just be working slower that an ale yeast normally would.
Sean
Well-Known Member
Rule of thumb is, "Swirl the same direction as the toilet water goes.."
ok i decided to use a method i read about on here. so i dumped all the contents of the carboy into the toilet, puked my guts out from whiskey, then i siphoned it back out with my mouth into a bucket, i then let my dog drink it, at which point i attached a bag and tube to his genitalia, after this i chill the piss (wort) and repitched some more champagne yeast, and some extra yeast from my toejam. thanks for the great ideas guys.
On a serious note, thanks for all the valuable information given by a select few of you. The rest of you elitists who dont like answering questions, and would rather make this a siding battle between myself (a self proclaimed new brewer) and one of your beloved, and salivated upon mods, just pick a different thread.
On a serious note, thanks for all the valuable information given by a select few of you. The rest of you elitists who dont like answering questions, and would rather make this a siding battle between myself (a self proclaimed new brewer) and one of your beloved, and salivated upon mods, just pick a different thread.
What the heck? No mods ever picked on you. You shouldn't have been lambasted, of course, and I think we all need to think about how we respond to questions. Of course, your response seemed to provoke even more jibes.
All of you. Go to your rooms. With a nice drink. Come back and shake hands and play nice from now on.
Thank you.
Signed,
Mom
Brewho - Sorry you got the ass end of this forum. Yes, everyone here does love Revy, and his answers do come off as being smart-ass a lot of the time (but I mean, I think he is a reverend.....)
The cider isn't going to krausen up like a high gravity beer will. It should be quite boring to watch it. I would siphon it off into a secondary carboy after 10-14 days and just lit it sit for a few months. Any time less than that, it will be hot (alcohol) tasting because of the sugar you added.
Next time I would boil the sugar for 10-15 min with enough water to not make syrup, to sanitize the sugar.
Wow, I really wish most people on this site would read more brewing books. Especially so they don't defend their answer by simply saying, "that's what Palmer said"
The cider isn't going to krausen up like a high gravity beer will. It should be quite boring to watch it. I would siphon it off into a secondary carboy after 10-14 days and just lit it sit for a few months. Any time less than that, it will be hot (alcohol) tasting because of the sugar you added.
Next time I would boil the sugar for 10-15 min with enough water to not make syrup, to sanitize the sugar.
Wow, I really wish most people on this site would read more brewing books. Especially so they don't defend their answer by simply saying, "that's what Palmer said"
SwampassJ
Well-Known Member
Just did a batch of cider with hefeweizen yeast. I got maybe 3/4 inch of krausen that would randomly disapear for as much as an hour. After 2 weeks I was at the fg I expected and let it sit for another week before bottling.
I think it has something to do with the combination of longer chain sugars (compared to glucose/fructose) and the protein in the beer that makes the stupid huge krausens.
You had a few good options given, best one was to leave it alone. If it's already started fermenting you're better off waiting extra time to finish then trying to reoxygenate it. But what do I know either, I'm probably being a pompous ass suggesting you wait.
I think it has something to do with the combination of longer chain sugars (compared to glucose/fructose) and the protein in the beer that makes the stupid huge krausens.
You had a few good options given, best one was to leave it alone. If it's already started fermenting you're better off waiting extra time to finish then trying to reoxygenate it. But what do I know either, I'm probably being a pompous ass suggesting you wait.
no your fine swampass. the answer i was looking for was simple, yet not obvious. "yeast wants to be left alone and not shaken while its working" good to know. that is all i was asking and for some reason it took me a while to get that answer. most of you were fine, its just a few that wanted to make a popularity contest instead of a simple question.
The real story is; yeast during fermentation will create some heat and gases, this will create a pseudo "current" inside the vessel as the heat/gases rise, and then as it cools/escapes it will fall.
I was watching this happen in my glass carboy. (FYI this is a super simplified observation, I am 100% sure that there are some of the super science brew/beer guys that can give a much more accurate description and the reasons behind it.) As such there is no NEED to shake the carboy.
HOWEVER, there are some "old school" brewers that do "shake the carboy" or "stir the bucket" everyday for the 1st week of fermentation. I have only seen this (and read about it) being done with wines. I know from 1st hand experience that this is true because my mother does this.
I attempted to explain that this is NOT necessary to do and her response was,"This is what my recipe says to do. I have been doing this for every batch and every batch turns out good and tastes the same. So I am NOT going to change how things are done now." Then she added,"There is a 3 gallon glass carboy, I want you to take it and make a 1/2 batch however YOU want and we will compare it side by side with mine."
I thanked her for the carboy and explained that I would make a small batch but I did NOT want to compare it against her wine. (even moms have feelings...) I explained that I would make a apple mead (her recipe - the shaking and with honey instead of cane sugar.) I then found a recipe for caramel apple mead and altered it to make a cheap small batch. While this will NOT be the same as I originally planned, it is tasting REALLY good.
While there are some differences in beer and wine. Sometimes it is easier to do what makes you feel the most comfortable...especially if it creates a proven repeatable product that YOU like. (Ya mom's wines are super yummy!)
Latest posts
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Why didn't anyone ever tell me to buy a grain mill sooner- Latest: corkybstewart
