Going AG w/ This Setup - Advice Wanted

I have about 30 batches under my belt and am researching the move to AG and would like some opinions on this setup....

http://morebeer.com/view_product/15633/102307/B3-200B_10_Gallon_System_Burner_Kettle_Wort_Chiller

Seems about perfect to me, but want some advice from the pros...

I know I could do the HLT / Mashtun conversions myself and save some money - actually may end up doing that.

I am also thinking about the smaller size with only 5 gal coolers and a smaller brewpot, but from reading homebrewtalk for a bit now, we all seem to agree bigger is better.

Would welcome you your thoughts on this setup?

Thanks!

Even if you are simply producing a cornie of beer at a time, you will still want the ability to make strong beers that utilize a huge amount of grain. In that sense, bigger is better in my opinion. As for self built, it is not very hard to do and if you enjoy that kind of thing, it is half the fun. I don't see anything wrong with the set-up, but for the money I think I would invest in Keggles and go the self built route. 3 tiers of stainless is hard to beat and it will last forever. Maybe you should talk with our friend YURI and see what he might come up with. Support the locals. Good luck.

Nice setup but a couple of observations:

You can make a mash tun yourself for less that $75.00 (but you probably know that).

That setup only has one kettle which means you have to transfer all of your sparge water out of the kettle and into the LT and hold it there for the duration of the sparge…while you drain the wort back into the kettle.

A bigger kettle will payoff soon. You appear to brew a lot so you’ll eventually migrate to 10-gallon batches.

Here’s what I’d go for:
10 gallon Rubbermaid from HD converted to mash tun ($75)
7.5 gallon turkey fryer for hot liquor tank ($65)
15 gallon Keggle or suitable brew pot ($150)
50’ of 3/8” flexible copper tubing from Lowe’s and hoses/fittings for IC ($75)
Banjo Burner ($75)

That’s just the way I’d approach it…but if you’re more comfortable with a turn key setup…don’t hesitate to order and get to brewing…

Side note:

I saw some 60 quart coolers on sale at Target this morning at 50% off.

This was at the Target at Sheridan and Yale in south Denver.

Thats quite expensive for what you are getting.

Here is what I've purchased so far in my venture to AG

$30 30qt brew pot and burner

$28 for MLT thats for the everything.... cpvc manifold and small inline nylon barb valve.

$50ish for IC haven't purchased yet

= $108

Yeah I would not go with buying all that stuff in a pre-packaged kit, you are paying TON more. Just buy everything separately, and make the MLT by yourself. Its easy, trust.

I'd say go with http://coppertubingsales.com if you're building your own IC. I got 50' of 3/8" from them after reading good reviews here and was very happy with it.

Sigafoos said:

I'd say go with http://coppertubingsales.com if you're building your own IC. I got 50' of 3/8" from them after reading good reviews here and was very happy with it.

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Check out Home Depot, last time I was there 50' of 3/8" copper was $59.00. Depending on your shipping its about the same as coppertubingsales just without the wait.

If you have the money and do not mind spending it for a turn-key system then that is OK. Everyone here is trying to save you money but if you are the person who does not like shopping around and making your own stuff then I can see why you want to go this way. Morebeer's systems are good and as an example I have Morebeer's 1/2 dia x 50 foot long chiller which really kicks but on heat. Do what you think is right and you will be happy. A Keg makes a great boiler too and is way cheaper but MoreBeers 15 gallon boiler is nice too. In the end it's your choice.

If you think you can do your cooler conversions yourself, you can definitely do the chiller yourself as well. Making some of the equipment yourself is half the fun in my opinion.

Do you want to fly sparge or batch sparge?
How have you been cooling your wort? Have you previously been doing 5 gal batches and now moving to 10 gal?

Thanks everyone for the advice! I really appreciate it. It seems the consensus is this is a pretty good setup but overpriced and I could do better (and have fun) trying to build some of this myself.

To answer some of the group's questions:

Do you want to fly sparge or batch sparge?

-- I guess I want the option to do either, but could be happy with a batch sparge setup to get started.

How have you been cooling your wort?

-- Been cooling using a ice bath, but looking forward to removing that step from the process!

Have you previously been doing 5 gal batches and now moving to 10 gal?

-- To date all my batches have been 3 or 5 gal. I plan on sticking with 5 gal, but the advice here seems to be that it's only a matter of time before I will want to increase batch size.


And here are some follow-ups from me:

BierMuncher mentions using a 7.5 gallon turkey fryer for hot liquor tank. I am under the impression the HLT needs a method for holding a constant temp. How would I do this with the turkey fryer? I am guessing some sort of insulation? Also wouldn't a need to convert this somehow to include a spigot? In the short term, could I skip an HLT all together and use my current 5 gal and 4 gal kettles?


BierMuncher mentions using a 15 gallon Keggle or suitable brew pot ($150). Any advice on where to get a keggle? I saw some listed on ebay awhile back, but nothing now. What do you do for a lid to a keggle?

Who is YURI?

A few thoughts from a somewhat-experienced AG brewer.

First, the hot water tank is worthless. Unless you are buying a pump, you don't really want to be transferring large quantities of hot water 5 feet up into the cooler, only to drain it down 2 feet into the MLT. In general, the less you move hot water/wort around by hand, the safer and easier your brew day will be.

The way I do it is to add the measured amount of water directly from the kettle to the MLT, and get the temperature right where I want it by adding a couple last quarts of hot or cold water, as necessary, to reach the right temp. Then, my MLT is preheated and I don't have to worry so much about temperature drop (except from adding the grain, which can easily be accounted for). The thing is, all brewers can tell you much much heat you will lose for each pound of grain you add, but nobody but you will know how much heat your particular MLT soaks up. So preheating really makes your life easier, at least when you start. And, again, if you put the hot water directly into the MLT, that's 2 or 3 fewer feet that you need to lift the hot water.

While mashing, I heat more water in the kettle to rinse the grains (sparge). When the mash is completed, I collect the wort into 5 gallon buckets so I can easily First Wort Hop (FWH) while sparging (I usually do 2 sparges which gives the wort more time to FWH and gets me better efficiency). Now, my kettle is empty and my wort is FWH'd and the temperature of the wort is dropped to a somewhat safer level. I add the buckets of wort to my kettle and begin the boil.

At this point, if you had a second burner and small kettle, you could be heating more water and getting a second batch underway, or starting to collect second runnings so once the first batch is done, you can make a "small" (lower OG) batch such as an ordinary bitter or a mild... I often add a little extra specialty grain to these second runnings to make them a completely different beer. These extra sparges will put your overall efficiency through the roof, even if your crush isn't all that great and you can even use some extract to increase the OG if "small beers" aren't your thing- it's still an extra batch of beer for very little extra work.

As for the wort chiller, I have to say, with the rising price in copper, I would strongly something other than an immersion chiller (IC). A counter-flow chiller probably isn't more than $20 more than an IC and it is dramatically more efficient and the clean up is easier as well. You might also consider a plate chiller- there's some good deals on ebay. A plate chiller will require you to filter out large particles a little more carefully to ensure they don't get trapped between the plates, but it is the most efficient approach to cooling wort- an elegant and small-sized solution that doesn't cost much more than the CFC.

If you're willing to spend $550 or so in total, my recommendation is...

A 15 gallon SS pot (or keggle)- the ball valve is worth the price... ($200 for a SS pot, maybe $100 for a keggle)
A CFC or plate chiller (either will be under $100)
A large turkey fryer for your kettle ($100)
A small turkey fryer with aluminum pot combo ($60)- you can use the aluminum pot and small burner to heat your water.
And a $75 MLT conversion.

Don't forget you'll probably want a mill too, if you don't have one already ($120 or so)

Also, get yourself a second propane tank for use with the second burner. Why? Because then, not only can you heat strike water while brewing a batch, but you will also have a second propane tank in case your first one runs out. Being able to run your tanks bone dry, rather than refilling when you are worried you don't have enough for a full batch, will save you money in the long run.

got three kegs from CL over the course of a month and paid 25 dollars a peice for them. http://coppertubingsales.com is the least expensive I've found even after shipping is factored in. $67 dollars shipped for 50 ft of 1/2". Wind it around a cornie for professional results. ss weldless ball valve fittings for $27 at http://www.greatbargain.net/order/shop1.html. also there is a guy in the HBT classifieds thats has ss for false bottoms and says he'll make them cheap. hmmm, thats about $200 so far. pumps at northen brewer for $117. they also have thermometers. see you have already built a cheaper and better system. good luck how ever you decide to go and drink one for me.

forgot burners $8 apeice for 170,000 btu at http://www.agrisupply.com/product.asp?pn=30295&cn=5400001&bhcd2=1213664744

beerthirty said:

forgot burners $8 apeice for 170,000 btu at http://www.agrisupply.com/product.asp?pn=30295&cn=5400001&bhcd2=1213664744

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This one looks like a better deal... it's a more complete solution... if you can spare the extra $3.

http://www.agrisupply.com/propane-cooker-with-one-buner--cast/p/56913/c2p/cs/

yes that one includes the stand, but it is a low pressure burner and it doesn't rate what the btus are. A stand is as quick as and old metal milk crate(if you can find one) and a strip of metal to mount the burner to. that was my first stand, no welding required. but to each there own. On the down side I get about 3 brews per tank. Up side, its boiling 10 gallons in 15-20 min. My ambient is 100-110. I hate summer here. For his needs yours is probably best.

There are so many different things you can do with heating, MLT, HLT, cooling, fermenting, that I'll give you a little run-down of what I purchased in the last few months. My friend and I have about 20 batches in, about 16 of which were AG. We now live 5 hours apart so I wanted to create my own setup to brew where I live. I have:

$25 turkey fryer, the aluminum pot is 30qt, the bare minimum. There are several debates on aluminum vs stainless. I like aluminum because it's lighter and cheaper. Sure this thing doesn't have the most powerful burner, but for the money I'm willing to stick with it for now. Maybe I'll upgrade to a higher powered burner in the future.

$60 Mash tun, 10gal round cooler with a plastic plate with holes drilled in it as a false bottom. I followed this design: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=23008. This would allow for batch sparging or fly sparging. For only batch sparging a SS braid would be sufficient.

$30 16qt pot to use as a HLT on the turkey fryer burner during the sparge

$55-60 Immersion chiller. Got 50' 3/8 inch copper tubing from coppertubingsales.com and used it all. I attached a compression garden hose adapter for one side because I can't and don't have the stuff to sweat copper. I debated making two of these: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=51793 and selling one, which would probably have given me a counterflow chiller for less than my IC cost. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=67446

$130 barley crusher. Haven't used it yet, but there are great reviews from users here. I currently have almost 150lb of grain and 2lb of hops. Buying bulk grain saves money in the long run if you brew enough.

$23 postage scale from ebay. 11lb capacity, 0.1oz/1g accuracy. It's in the mail as I type this.

Other random pieces that you probably already have...all in all, I spent about $400 for a complete AG setup. (I'm a big enough dork that I have it all laid out in an excel spreadsheet). Research before you buy, this website has a plethora of knowledge and the people here are amazing. Search for almost any question on hardware and you'll probably find it. Good luck with the jump to AG, and get ready to become even more addicted (if possible)!

beerthirty said:

yes that one includes the stand, but it is a low pressure burner and it doesn't rate what the btus are.

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It says it's a 6" burner. And the banjo-type burner on their site is also listed as a 6" burner. So I'm *guessing* it's that bigger burner.

Thanks again for all these great responses. After reading them, researching, and researching some more I have for sure decided AGAINST the turn-key solution. Here are my reasons:

1. Too much $$ for what I am getting
2. Thinking I want a keegle to be at the core of my home brewery - this seems to give the greatest flexibility and scalability
3. Plan on initially doing batch sparging so the HLT / Fly Sparge setup is not necessary
4. Not sure I want to mash in plastic - have done some research on this and although it seems "safe" my common sense tell me it's not a good idea and my NBSO is for sure against it.
5. Want the "thrill" of building some of this stuff myself.

Thanks again!