Bad experience with Williams Brewing

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Actuary

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I need to vent a little frustration and put out a warning about WB.

A couple weeks ago I bought 30+ packs of dry yeast and 1 pack of liquid yeast from their site. That was all I was buying. I ended up getting everything I ordered, however, all 6 packs of s-23 that I bought had an expiration date of 5/2009, and the 4 packs of t58 I bought had an expiration date of 7/2009.

I know that these dates aren't necessarily hard expiration dates - but they normally are good for 2 years +. Some of the other packages had dates in January 2011.

Does WB really think they should be sending out that much almost expired yeast to online customers who can't see the dates on the packages they are ordering? I am (obviously) stocking up for the next 6-12 months when I buy 30 packs of dry yeast.

I emailed the service address and their response was that I could ship it back to them for a refund. I asked for a partial refund of the dated yeast or credit for future purchase because I don't really feel like dealing with sending back their product. I thought 1/2 the cost would be reasonable since I assumed I would be fine pitching two packs of old yeast which put the loss at <$10. I thought this would be reasonable and would be a way to keep me as a customer.

WB replied back that their policy is to accept returns for 60 days. I explained to them that me this was because of their lack of disclosure (the expiration dates) and that I shouldn't have to put in the extra effort to make myself whole and that if their policy is to push off their old product on their internet customers that I would be happy to share this with my homebrewing friends so they don't run into the same problem as I did. Again, they restated the offer to allow me to ship it back to them.

So, there is the story. Be careful when ordering from WB, you might end up with something that has been on a shelf for 2 years.
 
Haven't you ever heard the phrase "Sometimes when life gives you lemons, you should find a guy with a bottle of tequila, and some chick with a salt shaker and party your ass's off." ?

That said, you are trying to get money back for a product that you have not yet used, but intend to use, and they should send you back money why?

When you placed an order to them, you agreed to their terms and conditions. Like it or not, those are the terms you agreed to.

Where I work, we give out sales receipts that give a 1 year warranty with the return of a defective product, so long as the receipt is returned with the defective product. No receipt, no warranty. If I can't verify that #1 you even bought what you have in your hand from me and #2 within 1 year's time, I am not giving you a free replacement. No if's and's or but's. Its policy and its there for a reason. Don't like it? Too bad.

Although, I do agree with you completely that they shouldn't be selling yeast thats so close to expiration date unless they intend to stand behind their product and have a money back guarantee, kinda hard to prove though that it doesn't work.
 
I honestly wouldn't really care that much. I'm still using dry yeast I've had in my fridge dated 2007 without any issue.
 
I'm surprised you were dissatisfied with Williams Brewing. I've had wonderful experiences with them. I bought my Perlicks from them, and the drip trays. I forgot to order an item, but didn't want to pay shipping, so I called when they opened. (I ordered online). They already had my order together, but still shipped out my extra item without charging me extra.

I guess if they said you could return the yeast, why not return it? They said they'll take the return, and then you wouldn't be out anything. I don't think that keeping the items, and using them, but expecting a credit is fair. You can return them if you want to. I'd keep them, and just use the oldest ones first. I have tons of Nottingham (just got it recently from a different online LHBS) that are about ready to outdate. I'll just use them as I need them.
 
They sold you viable yeast, not past the expiration date. They didn't do a damn thing wrong.

Make a starter with it if you're concerned. It will probably be just fine.

B
 
Meh... I can see what you are saying, but they sold you a viable product.

When I bought 12 months worth of yeast from Brewmasters, I talked to Ed about the importance of the Exp. Date. He checked them all, then sent them. If I am buying a "perishable" ( I use that loosely with dry yeast) product that I plan to have in storage for a while, I make my expectation known.
 
I'm all for ranting about bad customer service but I don't agree that you got bad service here. None of them are expired. If they were, they would have refunded you. Put yourself in a home brew shop owner's shoes. Would you start throwing out dry yeast packs that are due to expire in 4 months?
 
Bottom line, if you are buying something sight unseen, you need to make your expectation known.
 
That said, you are trying to get money back for a product that you have not yet used, but intend to use, and they should send you back money why?
Because they want to keep a customer?

I agree that it is their policy and they don't have to do anything other than offered, which is why I explained to them my policy as a customer and gave them the option to do something which made more sense for both parties.
 
WHy not just use those packs first and relax?
Which is what I will do. And if you think it is OK for WB to ship old product as a part of their business, feel free to purchase from them. Some people might prefer non-expiring yeast, so I am letting them know that.
 
I don't think giving you money back without getting their product back would make sense for them. It may be better for you, but I wouldn't expect a business to do that when there was nothing wrong with what they sent you.
 
Because they want to keep a customer?

I agree that it is their policy and they don't have to do anything other than offered, which is why I explained to them my policy as a customer and gave them the option to do something which made more sense for both parties.

It makes no sense to me. They sent you a viable product. They offered to refund your money because you might not use it in the time that it is still viable. You want them to give you something for nothing.

This isn't how commerce works. Maybe I can buy a big, shiny 15 gallon pot and tell them I'll use it less than someone else would, and so they should give me half my money back. If you don't like what they gave you, return it. If you do, that's great.

Sorry to say, but they're doing everything right in this situation and you're being unreasonable.
 
Which is what I will do. And if you think it is OK for WB to ship old product as a part of their business, feel free to purchase from them. Some people might prefer non-expiring yeast, so I am letting them know that.

It isn't old though. It is well with the viable date.
 
They sold you viable yeast, not past the expiration date. They didn't do a damn thing wrong.
I suppose expecting them to realize that I am not going to use 30 packages of yeast in the next month was too much to expect?
 
I'm all for ranting about bad customer service but I don't agree that you got bad service here. None of them are expired. If they were, they would have refunded you. Put yourself in a home brew shop owner's shoes. Would you start throwing out dry yeast packs that are due to expire in 4 months?

I wouldn't throw it out, but would mention it to people making large orders or discount it as it neared expiration to everyone to get rid of it before it did expire.
 
why not just use those first. Technically there in their rights because the yeast ISN'T expired yet. Ive also bought from williams and have yet to have problems. If you hate them....go to austinhomebrew
 
Yes, you are correct that the 5/09 ones probably should not have been sent out. But the only reasonable request you could make is to be reimbursed for return shipping and price on those packages. I think all others are fair game.
 
I suppose expecting them to realize that I am not going to use 30 packages of yeast in the next month was too much to expect?

IMO, yes it is. You order 30 of something, they're going to take 30 of them off the shelf and send them to you. I wouldn't expect them to call me up and ask me how often I brew or what I plan on doing with their product or anything like that. It would annoy me if they did. Obviously, they would check their stock regularly so they don't have expired products, and they look like they did that.
 
Bottom line, if you are buying something sight unseen, you need to make your expectation known.

And the seller should appropriately disclose relevant information when normal expectations of a product don't apply, such as dry yeast that has a "shelf life" of 24+ months is already 23 months old.
 
Situation not to your satisfaction and the retailer offered to fix it withing the realm of their return policy.

You wanted a special deal where you could have your cake and eat it too. Since you are an AG brewer with 150+ batches under your belt, you know that the yeast it good. You can't expect a business with several customers to "anticipate" your brewing schedule and adjust your order without some sort of input from you.

I'm all about pointing out problems with a business when you have an issue and they ignore it or refuse to resolve the issue, but to expect them to change their return policy for you is a bit much.

No offense to you, but you aren't going to get much support in this situation.
 
I don't think giving you money back without getting their product back would make sense for them. It may be better for you, but I wouldn't expect a business to do that when there was nothing wrong with what they sent you.
It's going to cost them shipping and there is a chance they end up tossing the yeast in a month from now unsold if I return it, especially if I use most of my 60 days to return it...so it might make sense.

Plus, future business is probably worth more than I was asking for. Oh well.
 
I'm all about pointing out problems with a business when you have an issue and they ignore it or refuse to resolve the issue, but to expect them to change their return policy for you is a bit much.

No offense to you, but you aren't going to get much support in this situation.
I think you (and many others) are getting a little bit away from the point of this. I don't expect them to change their policy. I am advising people to be aware of what WB is selling and what their policy is noting my experience and attempt to resolve this in a way that would allow WB to keep me as a customer.

If you don't care and think all is just OK, then thats fine. Some people might care.
 
I think you (and many others) are getting a little bit away from the point of this. I don't expect them to change their policy. I am advising people to be aware of what WB is selling and what their policy is noting my experience and attempt to resolve this in a way that would allow WB to keep me as a customer.

If you don't care and think all is just OK, then thats fine. Some people might care.

To be honest, this thread made me more likely to do business with them. You had a problem and they offered to make it good in a way I'd be satisfied with. I don't know many places that will give you a refund AND let you keep the product.
 
Yes, you are correct that the 5/09 ones probably should not have been sent out. But the only reasonable request you could make is to be reimbursed for return shipping and price on those packages. I think all others are fair game.
I disagree with the term "only reasonable request". Shipping back is an inconvenience to me and I am still not going to return as a customer, so I made my offer to them that worked for both of us. They don't have to accept that if they think it is unreasonable.
 
I think you (and many others) are getting a little bit away from the point of this. I don't expect them to change their policy. I am advising people to be aware of what WB is selling and what their policy is noting my experience and attempt to resolve this in a way that would allow WB to keep me as a customer.

If you don't care and think all is just OK, then thats fine. Some people might care.

We can appreciate that. It's important to share our experiences. Most of us think that WB did fine, though. It's just our differences of opinion. They offered to give you a full refund- that's not what you wanted, but in my book that counts as good customer service. A full refund, in up to 60 days, is a lenient policy.

We like to talk about our experiences, but we're careful not to bash businesses that are trying to do it right. There are plenty of "bad" businesses out there, and we all need to be aware of it. I understand you weren't pleased with your order and why. I don't know what else they could have done, though, if a full refund isn't good enough.
 
To be honest, this thread made me more likely to do business with them. You had a problem and they offered to make it good in a way I'd be satisfied with. I don't know many places that will give you a refund AND let you keep the product.

Agreed.

Another point:

You ordered 30 packets of yeast. They cannot a) make assumptions on your use schedule for this yeast and b) do you really expect some guy working on pulling product and putting it in a box to think about this before he does? Is he sitting there, pulling things off shelves to verify every packet of yeast you receive is coded in successive dates so you get dates that match your brewing schedule? What if you were buying a bulk order for 10 people and you all needed 3 packets for a group brew in a week?

You're assuming they knew everything about what you were doing. They offered to refund you and you're being fickle.
 
To be honest, this thread made me more likely to do business with them. You had a problem and they offered to make it good in a way I'd be satisfied with. I don't know many places that will give you a refund AND let you keep the product.
It is just disappointing to be buying something online so near expiration when you wouldn't expect it to be. That is my frustration.
 
We like to talk about our experiences, but we're careful not to bash businesses that are trying to do it right. There are plenty of "bad" businesses out there, and we all need to be aware of it. I understand you weren't pleased with your order and why. I don't know what else they could have done, though, if a full refund isn't good enough.
It is certainly fair to say that "bad" would mean they refused to offer a refund...but I don't know if I would decribe the experience as "exceptional".

If I had come on here instead and said "I bought $70 of yeast from WB and a bunch of it was expiring next month and they let me ship it back to them for a refund, that is just outstanding service and they went out of their way", I wouldn't expect a whole lot of agreement.
 
It is certainly fair to say that "bad" would mean they refused to offer a refund...but I don't know if I would decribe the experience as "exceptional".

If I had come on here instead and said "I bought $70 of yeast from WB and a bunch of it was expiring next month and they let me ship it back to them for a refund, that is just outstanding service and they went out of their way", I wouldn't expect a whole lot of agreement.

I think you're right! No one said it was outstanding, either. I'm just saying that was disappointing for you, but not "bad" enough to rally the troops into boycotting them. Most of us would shrug and either return the yeast for the refund, or keep it and use it without too much thought. You definitely have the right to be unhappy with the service, but I think WB did what they could to make it right.

If you're unhappy with them, of course you should shop elsewhere.
 
I'm just saying that was disappointing for you, but not "bad" enough to rally the troops into boycotting them.

That's probably fair, but I am guessing that a lot of people reading htis thread might think to ask to have the dates checked next time they order from WB (or any other supplier). It is an experience worth sharing because I think someone else might gain something from it.
 
That's probably fair, but I am guessing that a lot of people reading htis thread might think to ask to have the dates checked next time they order from WB (or any other supplier). It is an experience worth sharing because I think someone else might gain something from it.

I think that's a good point. Even I forget to check the dates on the dry yeast when I'm in the store, so it's a good reminder for all of us.
 
That's probably fair, but I am guessing that a lot of people reading htis thread might think to ask to have the dates checked next time they order from WB (or any other supplier). It is an experience worth sharing because I think someone else might gain something from it.
+1 on this.Maybe you should ask a mod to change the title of your thread to something like
Ordering Bulk Yeast:Have supplier check dates before sending.
 
The yeast is good and still will be for quite a while. I don't exactly see how you have the right to be upset, it won't expire for a while so they haven't done anything dishonest.
 
Its just straight up FIFO inventory management...First In, First Out. Meaning: use (sell) the oldest product first.

You really expect them to try to calculate how frequently you brew and pick yeast based on that?

+1 for what everyone else said...

I was at a LHBS that had yeast that was two years expired sitting on the shelves...needless to say, I walked out without buying anything.

-neil (sorry for my first post being a dick-ish one)

(the story below is not a dig at the OP, just a funny customer service story where I work.)

Lady comes in with dog-chewed glasses, expects us to replace them for free. Naturally, we refuse. She demands a refund b/c of our satisfaction guarantee, though it says in "new condition" on the back of the receipt...

Silly customers! :)
 
This is ridiculous! This retailer did nothing wrong and you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to bash them on a forum! Your way out of line!
 
This is ridiculous! This retailer did nothing wrong and you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to bash them on a forum! Your way out of line!

:rolleyes:

Bashing them? Way out of line? Geeze. I disagree with them sending out 2 years old yeast with expiration dates next month. Some people agree with that, some people didn't.

I explained their offer to return the yeast as well which most feel was sufficient. This is secondary to them shipping it in the first place, but that is my opinion.
 
I was at a LHBS that had yeast that was two years expired sitting on the shelves...needless to say, I walked out without buying anything.
So...where would you draw the line? Dry yeast has expiration dates 2 years out from when it ships (evidence being the packs I have dated 2/2011). Is it OK to have it up until the day printed on the package but not the following day?

I understand FIFO - what I am surprised is that WB even has yeast this old on their shelf. I was under the impression that they were a high-volume shop and would expect them to turn over their product much faster.

Similarly, I would hope that any hops you buy now would be 2008 crop and any 2007 crop remaining would be discounted and disclosed. I'll have no problem using my 2006 hops that I have in my freezer, because I was the one who bought too many hops at the time and know how they have been treated for the past 2 years and can adjust accordingly.
 
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