Hop Substitute

Williams 728
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jagg

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I am planning on doing eds Haus Ale on thursday, I will be doing 10 gallons, my question is I have some 9.1 aau centennial and 5.1 aau cascade, the recipe calls for 6.6 aau cascades, if i USE 1 OZ. 9.1 aau centennial and 1 oz. 5.1 cascade for the bittering hops will I be off target too much, I am assumiong I will lose a bit on effeciency with the larger grain bill, should I up the 2 row a bit, any suggestions welcome, thanks.
 
You either have to use an online program or buy a program or learn beer math. When you change things in a recipe it affects everything else.

What is your recipe. I can help you figure how much hops you need using that information and what hops you would like to use.
 
I am assuming his 6.6 AAU's was for 5 gallons. 6.6AAU'sx2 gallons is 13.2 AAU's needed. You have 9.1 AAU's + 5.1 AAU's=14.2 AAU's. This will give you a higher IBU beer which, yes, you could try to balance out by making a maltier or higher alcohol beer. But it's not going to make a huge difference in IBU's. Why not just use the proper amount of hops though? Use (.9 oz of centennialx9.1AAU's per ounce x .9 ounces)+5.1 AAU's cascade giving you 13.2 AAU's. Basically, use .9 ounces of centennial and 1 oz of cascade.
 
jagg said:
I am planning on doing eds Haus Ale on thursday, I will be doing 10 gallons, my question is I have some 9.1 aau centennial and 5.1 aau cascade, the recipe calls for 6.6 aau cascades, if i USE 1 OZ. 9.1 aau centennial and 1 oz. 5.1 cascade for the bittering hops will I be off target too much, I am assumiong I will lose a bit on effeciency with the larger grain bill, should I up the 2 row a bit, any suggestions welcome, thanks.
Click to expand...

Okay so here is ed's hopping schedule:

Boil & Hops
1.0 oz Cascade 6.6% at 60 min.
0.5 oz. Cascade 6.6% at 30 min.
0.25 oz. Cascade 6.6% at 15 min.
0.25 oz. Cascade 6.6% at 5 min.

So assuming that when you say 9.1aau centennial you mean the centennial hops you have are 9.1% alpha acids...just for clarification aau and alpha acid percentages are different. {aau = (aa%) * (weight in oz) } We can adjust his hopping schedule to adjust for what you have. Basically you want to keep the aau (alpha acid units) constant. The first thing we need to do is find out how many aaus ed is adding at each hop addition:

1oz * 6.6 %aa = 6.6 aau @ 60min
0.5oz * 6.6 %aa = 3.3 aau @ 30 min
0.25oz * 6.6 %aa = 1.65 aau @ 15min
0.25oz * 6.6 %aa = 1.65 aau @ 15min
##all are cascade additions##

so now that we know the aaus added at each point in the boil, we can adjust for what you have. We take the alpha acid units in the recipe and divide by th e % alpha acid of the hops that you have in order to determine the weight of each hop addition. This can be seen below:

6.6 aau / 9.1 %aa = 0.725oz Centennial @ 60 min
3.3 aau / 5.1 %aa = 0.64oz Cascade @ 30 min
1.65 aau / 5.1 %aa = 0.32oz Cascade @ 15 min
1.65 aau / 5.1 %aa = 0.32oz Cascade @ 5 min

So what you will need to make a close clone is 0.73oz centennial and 1.28oz cascade. If you don't have that much cascade, and only have 1 oz... you could use this hopping schedule:

0.725oz Centennial @ 60 min
0.16oz Centennial @ 30 min
0.36oz Cascade @ 30 min
0.32oz Cascade @ 15 min
0.32oz Cascade @ 5 min

This new schedule allows for what you have and will keep the aau constant for each addition. This may change the flavor slightly since you are adding centennial at 30 min but not too much because it IS still going to boil for 30 min... OR if you aren't too concerned with the IBUs being off too much I would just add the cascade like he did 0.5 @ 30, 0.25 at 15, 0.25 @ 5, and just change the amount of centennial being added @ 60 min to the new value of 0.8. This will also work fairly well.
 
nl724 said:
Okay so here is ed's hopping schedule:

Boil & Hops
1.0 oz Cascade 6.6% at 60 min.
0.5 oz. Cascade 6.6% at 30 min.
0.25 oz. Cascade 6.6% at 15 min.
0.25 oz. Cascade 6.6% at 5 min.

So assuming that when you say 9.1aau centennial you mean the centennial hops you have are 9.1% alpha acids...just for clarification aau and alpha acid percentages are different. {aau = (aa%) * (weight in oz) } We can adjust his hopping schedule to adjust for what you have. Basically you want to keep the aau (alpha acid units) constant. The first thing we need to do is find out how many aaus ed is adding at each hop addition:

1oz * 6.6 %aa = 6.6 aau @ 60min
0.5oz * 6.6 %aa = 3.3 aau @ 30 min
0.25oz * 6.6 %aa = 1.65 aau @ 15min
0.25oz * 6.6 %aa = 1.65 aau @ 15min
##all are cascade additions##

so now that we know the aaus added at each point in the boil, we can adjust for what you have. We take the alpha acid units in the recipe and divide by th e % alpha acid of the hops that you have in order to determine the weight of each hop addition. This can be seen below:

6.6 aau / 9.1 %aa = 0.725oz Centennial @ 60 min
3.3 aau / 5.1 %aa = 0.64oz Cascade @ 30 min
1.65 aau / 5.1 %aa = 0.32oz Cascade @ 15 min
1.65 aau / 5.1 %aa = 0.32oz Cascade @ 5 min

So what you will need to make a close clone is 0.73oz centennial and 1.28oz cascade. If you don't have that much cascade, and only have 1 oz... you could use this hopping schedule:

0.725oz Centennial @ 60 min
0.16oz Centennial @ 30 min
0.36oz Cascade @ 30 min
0.32oz Cascade @ 15 min
0.32oz Cascade @ 5 min

This new schedule allows for what you have and will keep the aau constant for each addition. This may change the flavor slightly since you are adding centennial at 30 min but not too much because it IS still going to boil for 30 min... OR if you aren't too concerned with the IBUs being off too much I would just add the cascade like he did 0.5 @ 30, 0.25 at 15, 0.25 @ 5, and just change the amount of centennial being added @ 60 min to the new value of 0.8. This will also work fairly well.
Click to expand...
Im assuming your quotes are for a 5 gallon batch? Im going to do 10or actuall 11 gallons, since his is a 5.5 gallon batch, so Ill need to double the hop additions you quoted? And what about my other question referring upping the grain a bit to compensate for the larger grain bill, I will be mashing in the 10 gallon cooler with stainless braid. And WBC you are correct sir, I need to learn beer math and a lot of other things about making beer, But this is my first AG batch, and Im going to try to do it the best I can :) Thanks for your help guys, Ill be waiting for your answers, 17 hours til I light the jet burners baby :)
 
jagg said:
Im assuming your quotes are for a 5 gallon batch?
Click to expand...

Yep

jagg said:
...so Ill need to double the hop additions you quoted?
Click to expand...

yep


jagg said:
And what about my other question referring upping the grain a bit to compensate for the larger grain bill, I will be mashing in the 10 gallon cooler with stainless braid.
Click to expand...

I mash in a 10 gallon cooler as well, but only for a five gallon batch of beer. I think you should reconsider making a 10 gallon batch. If you double the grain bill to 16# 2 row, 4# vienna, and 1# crystal 10L, you have a total of 21 pounds of grain. If you mash at 1 quart of water per pound of grain (...and I would not recommend anything less because the grain will absorb water throughout the mash...), then you are going to need 5.25 gallons to mash with. My typical 5 gallon batch consists of the following: 12# grain bill, 3 gallons mash water, 5 gallons sparge water (batch method). When sparging my cooler is full to the top, and I only have 12# of grain in the cooler. You are going to have a hard time mashing. But if you are set on doing ten gallons, add some grain, mash with as much water as you can fit, and just let the brewing flow. One thing I have noticed is that it is easy to get caught up in the details of brewing all grain, but once you get a few batches under your belt the brewing details become unimportant. So...I guess my advice is 5 gallons will be easier especially for your first AG batch, but then again, its just beer...there is always next time, and you learn from every brew day.

I would seriously consider reading the all grain procedure on howtobrew.com before brewing. It helped me get through my first all grain session.

Good luck! :rockin:
 
nl724 said:
let me know how it goes
Click to expand...
Just doughed in at 169.5f hit 154f stirred after 5 min equalized at 153 and holding for 17 min now, I used an extra pound of 2 row, 22# instead of 21, expecting a slight loss in eff., everything is going well so far, going to weigh out hops, report again soon.
 
I am finished, not too bad, had a stuck sparge, but once I fixed that it was good to go, collected13 gallons at 1.042, checked volume at 30 min, was down to 12 gallons, so Im pretty sure Im right at 11 gallons post boil, 1.053 going in the fermenters, rigged 1 inch ID blowoff on both, we will see in a couple weeks, thanks guys for the help, could not have done it without you.
 
Yes,it did feel good, and I think it is going to be a great beer, just got home, and she's a blowing like crazy through the blowoff, I stuck my digital thermo to the carboy and it is 75f put a tee shirt on both and soaked them with cool water, is this too high a temp? or normal?
 
yeah...i think it should be okay...most of mine ferment 72-75 and turn out fine...anything76-780 I would try to cool it off with some ice packs or something
 
The temp in the fermentation room is a pretty constant 67-68, I was just surprised the temp of the carboy reached 75.4f, I guess I just freaked out a little, after the first day krausen subsided ant temp was back down to 68ish, i figured my effeciency using bobbym's method and calculated 73% with the 22# grain mash, hopefully Ill get better next time, think the stuck sparge was the culprit, but Im not bitching, 73 is decent for a first timer I think, will let yall know how it tastes in a couple more weeks, Im going to transfer to secondary and dry hop with centennial and cascadesfor a few days, post back later.
 
If you have a cooler that the carboy will fit in you can make a water bath and add ice as needed to keep it cool during the first 3 days which is the critical time for temperature. After that it will not generate so much heat due to vigorous fermentation. If you do not have a cooler that big a party bucket works good with blankets around it. :)
 
That is a good idea, I might have a tub that it will fit in, I might try that next time, I switched out the blowoff yesterday and Im getting a bubble about every 5-6 seconds, looks like this is gonna ferment out quickly, just as Edwort said it would, Im gonna give it until Sunday before I transfer to secondary and dry hop, that will be 10 days, thanks for the suggestion WBC, man, you have been brewing a loooong time dude, I might have to hit you up on some pointers some time, thanks again, happy brewer in NC, post back later.
 

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