First Recipe, any suggestions? (Chocolate Cranberry Imperial Stout)

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Dairpo

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Hi everyone, I've been lurking for a while as my first brew (a kit cider) was aging and it turned out well, so I've upped the ambition and am looking at making a Chocolate Cranberry Imperial Stout this weekend. If all goes well, I hope to have it ready for the last month or so of winter.

Here's the recipe that I've pieced together from a variety of sources. The units are in metric, as that's what my LHBS sells it in, but I've tried to translate :)

Recipe Type: Extract
Yeast: Safales-33
Yeast Starter:
Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter: n/a

Batch Size: 20 litres ~5gallons
Original Gravity: 1.089 (estimated using HBD's calculator)
Final Gravity: 1.025 (expected)
IBU: 28
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: 239 HCU
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14+ @ 20 C
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14+ at 20 C
Tasting Notes: none yet

4.9kg Light LME (3 cans, 10.5 lbs)

Grains (steeped in 5 litres for ~30-45 minutes)
500g American Crystal 60L (1.1lbs)
750g American Chocolate (1.7lbs)
500g Black Malt (1.1lbs)
250g Roasted Barley (.6lbs)

Hops:
28g Northern Brewer (8.5%AA, 60min) (1 ounce)
42g Goldings (5%AA, 30min) (1.5ounce)
42g Goldings (5%AA, 15 min) (ditto)
1/2 cup fat free premium cocoa powder (10 min)

Fruit:
500g frozen whole cranberries (secondary) (slightly more than a pound)

I plan to steam the frozen cranberries and then rack the wort on to them in the secondary (glass carboy) after the fermentation has more or less ended in primary (plastic tub). After 2 weeks or so in the secondary (constant hydrometer readings), I'll use corn sugar as a primer and bottle, then let sit for at least 1 week, if I can help it. Hopefully it'll turn out well and I can squirrel some away for next winter!

Any tips/comments/suggestions?

Thanks!
 
That seems kinda high on the black malt - I think that's about 10.5 % of the grain bill. With all grain I think that would be pretty harsh, but maybe okay for steeping? I've only used it sparingly, maybe someone else can chime in on that.

Edit - oops I misread. I was thinking 4.9 lbs of extract. Which I guess wouldn't make sense with that OG. Still, I would see if someone with more experience with black malt could give an opinion.
 
Edit - oops I misread. I was thinking 4.9 lbs of extract. Which I guess wouldn't make sense with that OG. Still, I would see if someone with more experience with black malt could give an opinion.

still quite bit considering the chocolate and roasted barely in there too.

OP, i've found that with using dark malts, a little goes a long way. and combining too many real dark varieties can muddle the malt flavor some (although that's not entirely a bad this with a RIS). maybe back off the black some, as it could leave a harsher flavor, or try a de-bittered/de-husked variety of black malt to get the color without the harsh roasty flavor.
 
Thanks for the replies!

My main concern with all the grains is trying to get the colour right, which obviously should be second fiddle to the actual taste.

Oh! This might make a difference, I made the wrong barley selection on the HBD website--I'm using roast barley but selected flaked barley, which makes a big difference to the colour.

So, if I reduce the black malt by half (250g ~1/2lbs) should I also reduce the chocolate and/or crystal?
 
You may already be planning to do this, but I would definitely make a starter or double pitch the yeast. I've made this mistake of under-pitching high gravity beers and they came out a little too sweet. Good luck!
 
It might help to freeze your cranberries for a time before steaming and racking with them. I haven't used cranberries before, but I would guess they can be pretty tough, and some folks on these boards think that freezing fruit before use breaks down cell walls and helps get flavor out of them in secondary....I guess search the boards for examples of people using cranberries if you haven't already.
 
Thanks for the replies!

My main concern with all the grains is trying to get the colour right, which obviously should be second fiddle to the actual taste.

Oh! This might make a difference, I made the wrong barley selection on the HBD website--I'm using roast barley but selected flaked barley, which makes a big difference to the colour.

So, if I reduce the black malt by half (250g ~1/2lbs) should I also reduce the chocolate and/or crystal?

not sure exactly what you're asking, but.... i'd at least back off the black that much and look for a debittered/dehusked variety of black malt. toning down the chocolate and crystal isn't necessary, but it wouldn't hurt. the general rule is not to go over 20% specialty grains in your grain/extract bill, and no more than 10% crystal/caramel malts. 1# of a dark grain will make a beer dark, much more and you'll get the black beer you are looking for. too much specialty grains and your beer will finish with a high FG.
 
I am not familiar with HCU units so I plugged you recipe in to Beersmith and for color it calculates 76 SRM which is crazy dark. If you were to go 250g on everything - black, roasted barley, cyrstal 60, and chocolate you get about 50 SRM which is plenty dark. That would give you 17% specialty grains which is more like it.

Whatever you decide let us know how it turns out! +1 on the pitching rates, make sure you pitch enough yeast for this big boy.
 
Thanks again for the great replies.

I've just made my shopping list, I'll go with less of the specialty grains per the recommendations. And pick up an extra yeast package.

I have one more question about the Caramel/Crystal malt--my store carries 40L and 60L varieties. Does this mostly affect the colouring, or is the sweetness and flavour majorly influenced as well?
 
crystal malt will give some flavor to the beer, the higher lovibond crystals will impart more flavor along with more red/ruby like color. crystal malts are also unfermentable, so they do lend some sweetness to the finished brew.
 
Just got back from the LHBS (which is more of a corner of a wine making store) and they didn't have any crystal malts. The guys there suggested using carrot peels instead. To say the least, I'm skeptical.

From what I've read Crystal malts are similar to, or depending on the writer the same as, "cara" malts. Would I be able to use Cararoma malts instead?
 
Crystal is a trademarked term so other maltsters use the work caramel or cara to describe what is essentially the same malt. Cararoma is one specailly kilned to get the aroma. I don't know what its color rating is but it won't be the same flavor as a caramel or Crystal of the same Lovibond rating.
 
carrot peels?? okay.....
Looks like Cara-aroma is just a really dark crystal/caramel malt, like 130 L. You could use it in this recipe (maybe 100-200g). I'm a little worried about your LHBS there though. You may want to find a good online store if that's all you have locally. Not familiar with any of the Canadian ones but someone else should be able to help.
 
The guys there suggested using carrot peels instead. To say the least, I'm skeptical.

i'd be skeptical too. first off of a 'HBS' that doesn't carry crystal malts, and second of ANYONE who suggested replacing a grain with carrots. that just sounds like someone who knew NOTHING hearing cara and thinking of the first thing that popped into his head. there's some real tools that work in smaller HBS, there's one guy at mine that has some real silly suggestions on how to brew, and offers them way to freely.

i'd say find a place to get your crystal malts, even if you have to wait for them to ship. and avoid at least the advice from that store you're referring to, if not the whole store altogether.
 
I use a liberal amount of of black malts in my RIS, stouts, porters, etc, but I also cold steep the dark malts first as to not leech out the harsher tannins, but rather the softer chocolate notes.

My wife uses about 8.5% dark malts in her RIS that has an OG of 1.114 and an FG of 1.012 with great results. That beer has won in the queen of beers twice in a row. I think she mashes really low though at around 148 with a slow sparge of 170.
 
We went back after dinner tonight with my mother-in-law to do the "make your own wine in store" thing (her Christmas present, she's a wine drinker) and I talked to a different staff member. He's picking some Crystal up from their other location and putting it behind the cash for me first thing tomorrow--they were just sold out at this one :)

I'm willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt as I noticed they sell something called "Cara Pils". Maybe this guy, who did have a bit of an accent, was trying to say that. Why he nodded when I asked if I heard "carrot peels" correctly is still beyond me.

Anyways, with the crystal malts en route, we're set to brew tomorrow afternoon! I hope to update with the beer as it progresses, and start to research my next batch!
 
I'm willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt as I noticed they sell something called "Cara Pils". Maybe this guy, who did have a bit of an accent, was trying to say that. Why he nodded when I asked if I heard "carrot peels" correctly is still beyond me.

that's gotta be it... carapils with a certain accent would sure sound like carrot peels to me! too funny!!!:ban:
 
I noticed they sell something called "Cara Pils". Maybe this guy, who did have a bit of an accent, was trying to say that. Why he nodded when I asked if I heard "carrot peels" correctly is still beyond me.

OMG - I almost spewed a mouthful of Allagash Black onto my monitor when I read that. :D

Glad we got that solved. Good luck and give us an update after brew day.
 
The wort is in the primary and we already have some yeast activity (I'll leave it alone for the next two weeks, or at least try my best too!) which is good. However the OG is really low, 1.058 @ 21C. Even taking into account that the primary's fill line is marked to 23 litres (not 20 litres like I thought), it should still be around 1.070.

Another lesson of this afternoon: the snow bank on the balcony does cool that quickly. The heat radiating off the brew pot created a hollow space around it :)
 
don't worry about the low OG, if you added enough water. it's an extract brew and unless you messed up on the water, you hit the OG. sometimes not mixing the top up water can cause low readings, don't sweat it, fermentation will mix it all up for you.
 
don't worry about the low OG, if you added enough water. it's an extract brew and unless you messed up on the water, you hit the OG. sometimes not mixing the top up water can cause low readings, don't sweat it, fermentation will mix it all up for you.

Agreed. I had hydrometer reading issues early on for that exact reason. Everything always turned out fine.
 
Racked to secondary this afternoon. The SG was at 1.025 and the colour is a nice dark brown. I figure another two weeks or so before bottling, and then sometime in Late February/early March taking the first taste!

(I got some of the sediment when racking, but figure that the time in the secondary will let it settle. I probably left half a litre behind in the primary as I was getting a lot more of the sediment at the end.)

I drank the sample from the hydrometre. It's still a bit sweet, but some of the chocolate flavour is coming out. Hopefully it'll mix well with the cranberries.

I ended up doubling the cocoa during the brew and added about 750g of frozen-then-steamed cranberries.

And now the hard part: deciding what to put in the primary. I'm thinking either an Irish Red or an IPA. Picked up a recipe book last week, so I think I'll pick something from there..

S&B Imperial Chocolate Cranberry Stout - Secondary.jpg
 
Do a clone recipe of a commercial beer you like. That way, you work on process control and get to compare your result to the craft beer. For IPA's, hbt has recipes for things like Sierra Nevada Celebration, Victory Hop Devil, Doghead 60, ...

I know I was doing "better" when I started to prefer my batches to stuff I bought in bottles.
 
Do a clone recipe of a commercial beer you like. That way, you work on process control and get to compare your result to the craft beer. For IPA's, hbt has recipes for things like Sierra Nevada Celebration, Victory Hop Devil, Doghead 60, ...

Between having trouble finding the right hops for an IPA and some research last night at the pub, I decided on a Fullers clone. I think the next few will also be clones as well. Thanks for the advice!
 
I know this is a bit like reviving a zombie thread, but after life intervened for a few weeks I've finally managed to bottle the stout. It's sitting at 6.5 ABV and the hydrometre sample was quite delicious. I got 18 1L bottles and 1 750mL bottle out of the batch. I look forward to trying it in early March once it's had a chance to carbonate!

The ESB is also quite good, though I didn't have enough bottles for it so I transformed it to the glass carboy after I washed and sanitized it. Now time to plan the next batch :)
 
4 months later this beer is getting really good. The cranberry flavours didn't come out as much as I'd hoped, but there is a nice dark chocolate character. Also, after the initial drinks had some harsh coffee overtones, these have mellowed out making for a nice drink. Since then I've made a nice bitter (an English friend gave it a glowing "Looks like bitter, smells like bitter, tastes like bitter" pass) and a scorching jalapeno pale (hopefully it'll mellow in a month or two). Next up: brewing a red for Canada day!
 
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