I know the debate on what type of water to use is completely up to the brewer. The general rule of thumb is if the water tastes good then it will produce a good beer, but does anybody know anything about reverse osmosis water? It's probably the best tasting water I've ever had, but I'm unsure of the mineral content of the water. If anybody knows anything about it, I'd love to know more.
Reverse Osmosis Water?
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TipsyDragon
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if your making extract beers i wouldn't worry to hard about it. if your doing partial mash or all grain i wouldn't use it because it is to low in minerals.
ShortSnoutBrewing
Kwanesum Chinook Illahee
I use RO water all the time, but to Tipsy's point it is devoid of necessary minerals. Just build you water from scratch and add what you need for the style you're brewing.
I'm a new brewer, but I bought an RO filter years ago for my hydroponics gardening. You need a good base water for that, so that the additions of nutrients are as exact as possible with no initial PH buffering issues to deal with. My tap water takes a lot of ph adjuster to overcome it's buffering capability, which mades for really screwy and finicky adjustment problems.
I believe that in time, an RO filter is a good idea so you can start with a known water quality before you try to adjust it with minerals. Especially if PH is critical, which I dont know enough to say. It basically gives you a constant starting point to build from.
I believe that in time, an RO filter is a good idea so you can start with a known water quality before you try to adjust it with minerals. Especially if PH is critical, which I dont know enough to say. It basically gives you a constant starting point to build from.
Toecutter
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I'm a bit new to brewing but here is what i did on my last that is fermenting right now. I have R/O. my tap water has heavy clorine smell. for the mash and sparge, I used 1/2 charcoal filtered tap water, and 1/2 water from R/O, that way I have some minerals, but get out all the bad chemical tastes. we'll see how it turns out.
samc
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RO for me using this profile for the majority of my beers:
Burton Pale Ale -- A toned-down, "idealized" profile. Enough sulphate to bring out the hops without overdoing it. Low alkalinity helps ensure proper mash pH. Model: Moshers 'Ideal Pale Ale". 1 gram baking soda, 1 gram canning salt, 3.5 grams Epsom salt, 9 grams gypsum. Ca=111, SO4=337, Mg=18, Na=35, Cl=32, CO3=38, Hardness=352, Alkalinity=31.
Burton Pale Ale -- A toned-down, "idealized" profile. Enough sulphate to bring out the hops without overdoing it. Low alkalinity helps ensure proper mash pH. Model: Moshers 'Ideal Pale Ale". 1 gram baking soda, 1 gram canning salt, 3.5 grams Epsom salt, 9 grams gypsum. Ca=111, SO4=337, Mg=18, Na=35, Cl=32, CO3=38, Hardness=352, Alkalinity=31.
RO is close enough to 0 that I just count it as 0 when I build my water. The important thing is to have enough calcium after I hit my calcium target I mess with the Cl to so4 ratio then check my bicarbonate level to match my beer color.
TipsyDragon
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a boil and possibly a campden tablet will take care of that.
HomelessWook
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i hate tDB
bradneal
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Although I have only been making beer for just under a year, I have always used pure RO water, and so far I have been thrilled with the results... Maybe I need to rethink things though, and try at least some tap water.
The reason I went with RO is that we live in a rural Midwest area town that is not known for its water quality - think "well water"...
The reason I went with RO is that we live in a rural Midwest area town that is not known for its water quality - think "well water"...
haha, classic...who is this?
I've been using de-ionized RO water for about a year now.. My FIL is a lunatic-- he is big into coral reef tanks and filters his water down to pure water before mixing his salt. he says its laboratory grade water.. When I am ready to brew, I bring my jugs over and fill up from his holding tank. I brew extract and have been very happy with the taste and clarity of my beers...
bradneal
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I too am a fellow reefer (duuuuuuuude:rockin
, and use RO/DI for my salt tank. It's great for the fish as the salt replaces any of the good minerals that the reef environment requires. But... I wouldn't recommend it for human consumption as it pretty much strips the water of its minerals and taste.You can buy a second valve that goes inline between the RO filters and the DI filters, giving you only RO, which is what I do. But as for using RO/DI for drinking or brewing, I don't recommend it.
King of Cascade
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I too am a fellow reefer (duuuuuuuude:rockin
You can buy a second valve that goes inline between the RO filters and the DI filters, giving you only RO, which is what I do. But as for using RO/DI for drinking or brewing, I don't recommend it.
I wouldn't recommend it for human consumption as it pretty much strips the water of its minerals and taste...this is BS
You only need the minerals from water if you are not eating a proper diet and as far as taste go, what kind of taste do you want in your water? For me I like it tasteless.
But as for using RO/DI for drinking or brewing, I don't recommend it
This is exactly what you want for drinking and brewing. For 5 gallons I use 1 table spoon calcium chloride for malty beers and 1 table spoon gypsum for bitter beers. I dont usually make dark beers but add some chalk or baking soda for those to DI/RO water for great beer.
using RO/DI water for cooking/drinking is no different that using distilled water--its as pure H20 as you can get. The human body is perfectly capable of dealing with pure H20, and any food you eat has 100's or 1000's of times the number of "trace elements" than water has.
I thought the original question was whether you can use the WASTE water from a RO/DI unit to make beer with. Most of the home RO/DI unites waste 2-4 gallons for every gallon of RO/DI water produced.
The "waste" water would have increased levels of trace elements (mostly sodium, calcium iron, etc). Running it through a carbon filter would remove any toxic metals.
t
I thought the original question was whether you can use the WASTE water from a RO/DI unit to make beer with. Most of the home RO/DI unites waste 2-4 gallons for every gallon of RO/DI water produced.
The "waste" water would have increased levels of trace elements (mostly sodium, calcium iron, etc). Running it through a carbon filter would remove any toxic metals.
t
King of Cascade
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I thought the original question was whether you can use the WASTE water from a RO/DI unit to make beer with
Uhmm...no
The question was; could you use RO water for brewing
The waste water question was another thread.
If you're brewing extract you can get away with using 100% RO. A 50/50 cut with decent, dechlorinated tap would be better.
If you're brewing extract you can get away with using 100% RO. A 50/50 cut with decent, dechlorinated tap would be better.
King of Cascade
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Bobby,
Just wondering why you feel a 50/50 cut is best for extract? I guess I always felt like distilled (or RO) would be best because it is pure h2o and that is what will evaporate off when the extract is being made.
arturo7
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I'm of the opinion that R/O water is just plain nasty.
An R/O system uses 3-4 gallons of source water for one gallon of output. This water is now imbalanced and draws those missing ions out of your body. This is especially noticeable after a night on the town.
But hey, I'm not a chemist, drink what you like.
An R/O system uses 3-4 gallons of source water for one gallon of output. This water is now imbalanced and draws those missing ions out of your body. This is especially noticeable after a night on the town.
But hey, I'm not a chemist, drink what you like.
I looked up "bodily ion imbalance" I think it was, and checked wikipedia on electrolytes and stuff. But it just seems odd that if you're hydrating with water (even ro water) that you could actually cause symptoms of dehydration due to ion imbalance (low electrolytes?)! Is that actually the case?
King of Cascade
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What exactly do you mean by An R/O system uses 3-4 gallons of source water for one gallon of output. My R/O system puts out the same amount it takes in, minus the Ions, mold and bacteria. I do back flush the filter every other week but only use a gallon or two.
Also, +1 on you not being a chemist lol
Can you explain your thoughts on pure water extracting ions from your body.
arturo7
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Slow day, I might just google the snot out of this.
In most homes, the biggest problems are chemical contaminants, including chlorine and chorine byproducts known as THMs. In some areas, VOCs, such as perchlorate, are problems. Traces of pesticides, herbicides, and prescription drugs have been found coming in to many homes and offices.
Reverse osmosis systems will not remove those chemicals at all. They are smaller than your water's molecules. Anything that would filter them out would not allow water to pass through either. Chemicals can only be trapped on the surface of carbon granules and special resins. The process is called adsorption.
Read more: http://www.articlesbase.com/wellnes...stems-have-problems-740766.html#ixzz0wKA1oBMr
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
In most homes, the biggest problems are chemical contaminants, including chlorine and chorine byproducts known as THMs. In some areas, VOCs, such as perchlorate, are problems. Traces of pesticides, herbicides, and prescription drugs have been found coming in to many homes and offices.
Reverse osmosis systems will not remove those chemicals at all. They are smaller than your water's molecules. Anything that would filter them out would not allow water to pass through either. Chemicals can only be trapped on the surface of carbon granules and special resins. The process is called adsorption.
Read more: http://www.articlesbase.com/wellnes...stems-have-problems-740766.html#ixzz0wKA1oBMr
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
arturo7
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Of course it puts out what it takes in. However, unless the technology has changed recently, a good deal of that output goes directly to your drain.
King of Cascade
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Ok so if it gets through your R/O filter then it is already in your tap water right? Also, I didnt see anything that say it draws those missing ions out of your body and that is what I was questioning.
King of Cascade
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My system goes from the tap water to the DI system to the R/O system to the holding tank. The only water that goes down the drain is when I back flush the system every other week, and that is only about a gallon or so.
HomelessWook
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arturo7
Well-Known Member
Here's some science:
2004 WHO Report
This references distilled water but from the standpoint of mineral content it also applies to R/O.
"If distilled water is ingested, the intestine has to add electrolytes to this water first, taking them from the body reserves. Since the body never eliminates fluid in form of "pure"water but always together with salts, adequate intake of electrolytes must be ensured. Ingestion of distilled water leads to the dilution of the electrolytes dissolved in the body water. Inadequate body water redistribution between compartments may compromise the function of vital organs. Symptoms at the very beginning of this condition include tiredness, weakness and headache; more severe symptoms are muscular cramps and impaired heart rate."
2004 WHO Report
This references distilled water but from the standpoint of mineral content it also applies to R/O.
"If distilled water is ingested, the intestine has to add electrolytes to this water first, taking them from the body reserves. Since the body never eliminates fluid in form of "pure"water but always together with salts, adequate intake of electrolytes must be ensured. Ingestion of distilled water leads to the dilution of the electrolytes dissolved in the body water. Inadequate body water redistribution between compartments may compromise the function of vital organs. Symptoms at the very beginning of this condition include tiredness, weakness and headache; more severe symptoms are muscular cramps and impaired heart rate."
I have enough containers saved that I dont let any waste water go down my drain until I use it for something.
Currently I'm using waste water in 2 swamp coolers, also in the half gallon jugs that I freeze. I also store it and use it for laundry. On brew day, I fill my fridge with jugs and use them to chill my pot in my sink and for making all of my ice thats not bound for a beverage.
It's kind of a pain to do all that, but it's the best I can do. Sometimes on days where i use a lot of water, and even though I'm saving all the water, I only flush when it's not yellow, lmao. TMI there, but it saves 5 gallons each time.
Currently I'm using waste water in 2 swamp coolers, also in the half gallon jugs that I freeze. I also store it and use it for laundry. On brew day, I fill my fridge with jugs and use them to chill my pot in my sink and for making all of my ice thats not bound for a beverage.
It's kind of a pain to do all that, but it's the best I can do. Sometimes on days where i use a lot of water, and even though I'm saving all the water, I only flush when it's not yellow, lmao. TMI there, but it saves 5 gallons each time.
Ross:rockin:
figured there was only one boyd in asheville
you going to MRJF IV?
What up man!! I don't know if I'm going or not. It depends on how gruesome school is this semester. Holler at me.
King of Cascade
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The report uses words like Preliminary evidence suggest and May Cause
I do see why you would be concerned reading one report. I read this report before buying my R/O system along with many other newer reports and found it to be totally safe. This report written by the world health organization is for developing countries were there citizens have poor diets and rely on the trace elements in the water as a supplement.
arturo7
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Of course it uses those words, it is a 22 page report. However, those qualifiers are not present in the section cited. There are other reference materials that agree with this section of the report.
If you can post something that refutes that paragraph I'll be happy to read it. If I'm wrong I get to learn something new.
bradneal
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King of Cascade
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"That" is pretty vague. Would you like to say what you consider BS in that statement?
I shouldn't have made such a short comment and generalized. The water used in the creation of extract is generally unknown to the brewer. Is the ion content the bare minimum for good extraction and perhaps a low level, but balanced CL:S04 ratio? 100% RO is probably best for delicate light bodied beers like pils and other pale lagers/ales. Of course they can still benefit from an S04 boost if it's a hoppy beer and the reverse for a malty beer.
King of Cascade
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You should do you homework as well .some people think R/O water is bad for you and others feel the chlorine, lead, mercury and other toxins in tap water is bad for you. Pick your poison dude. I prefer to take a multi vitamin and drink R/O water.
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