Fermentation of Saison Style

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Stevorino

Stevorino

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I'd really like to brew this weekend but my fermentation chamber is full!

SWMBO has always asked me to make a Saison and I think this may finally be the time to do it. My understanding is that Saisons need to start a bit cool in their fermentation and then ramp up quite a bit.

Has anyone fermented Saisons and have experiences/successes that show that I could ferment this thing pretty hot and get a good result?

I'm thinking about cooling the wort down to around 68 for pitching and then just putting it in my attic (I live in Atlanta) -- I figure it'll be in the 80's to 90's up there and that the temperature will probably fluctuate during the day and night. Any suggestions?
 
Pitch around 80° and let it ride. The yeast will give you all that wonderful peppery bite that I crave in Saison Dupont.

Don't know if you've decided on a recipe, but keep the grist simple. 80% Pilsner 10% wheat malt and 10% Munich is an excellent combination in my mind.
 
Stevorino said:
. . . and then just putting it in my attic (I live in Atlanta) -- I figure it'll be in the 80's to 90's up there . . . the temperature will probably fluctuate during the day and night. Any suggestions?
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Try to avoid the flucatuation. Wrapping in insulation or just a blanket might help hold a more constant temperature. I wonder if putting it in an ice chest filled with water would help? But the attic sounds like a good idea.
 
AnOldUR said:
Try to avoid the flucatuation. Wrapping in insulation or just a blanket might help hold a more constant temperature. I wonder if putting it in an ice chest filled with water would help? But the attic sounds like a good idea.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the temperature flux is my biggest fear with this method. I also considered getting some kind of pan for the carboy to sit in, fill it with water, and a towel over it so that the water could wick up it and act as an insulator -- but I'm afraid that would cool it down a lot.

Would the blanket cause it to heat up too much?

FlyAngler - 80 degrees starting point seems a tad high -- has it worked for you?
 
You need to get the saisons pretty warm to get them to attenuate all the way. I've got mine sitting in a swamp cooler with an aquarium heater set to 85 degrees and its been bubbling for 3 weeks now.

You can get a cheap Rubbermaid tub and an aquarium heater for around $25. Keeps the temps very consistent as far as i can tell.
 
Stevorino said:
I also considered getting some kind of pan for the carboy to sit in, fill it with water, and a towel over it so that the water could wick up it and act as an insulator -- but I'm afraid that would cool it down a lot.
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The water bath without the towel would probably be best. You don't want evaporation, just more mass to hold the temperature constant through the night. If the bath was done in an old, well insulated ice chest it would be even better.




Edit:
If you don't mind spending the money, I like the aquarium heater idea. I wrapped a small heating pad around mine and kept it at around 85 degrees.
 
Stevorino said:
FlyAngler - 80 degrees starting point seems a tad high -- has it worked for you?
Click to expand...

Yes, it has. If you help it, don't allow the fermentation to drop below 80°. Saison yeast defies conventional wisdom re: fermentation temps. You will get lots of peppery bite without spitting out fusels - the strain has been cultured to ferment HOT.
 
I am using a small space heat in my spare bathroom cranked up to around 85F... the krausen had started to fall after a day at about 70F so I swirled the fermenter and cranked (crunk?) up the heat... the krausen is back to rocking at the new high temp. I'm going to hold it between 80 and 85 until it is finished.

My recipe was basically what flyangler suggested, however I pitched 3 gallons of my 8 gallon batch with some brett to see what comes out.

Neal
 
Hmmmm, I'm starting to rethink my strategy. It sounds like this brew could require more than just an attic fermentation to do right.

Anyone have experience with using a fermwrap to get it up to the mid 80's? It seems that putting it in a closet with a fermwrap and temp controller may be my best option...
 
Starting it out high, I'd worry about hot alcohols coming into play. Starting it low and letting it naturally climb is how I'll be doing mine. That's what Jamil recommends as well.
 
ChshreCat said:
Starting it out high, I'd worry about hot alcohols coming into play.
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In my experience, this isn't a problem with any of the Saison strains available. You really need to significantly exceed the upper limit of the strain's optimum range to get fusels in a Saison. For 3724, you'd have to ferment over 95° for that to happen!
 
I didn't get my fermentation up higher than 72, but got very good attenuation. I don't have my notes on me but I used Wyeast seasonal stran that I got in September. I just swirled the fermenter every couple of days. I think a mashed around 147 for 90 minutes. I was busy doing something else which is why it was 90 not 60 but figured it would only help the attenuation.

That said, I think you want the flavors of higher fermentation as much as you want the dryness. If you are in Atlanta and your attic only gets to the 80s this time of year then you must have some great insulation.
 
TheH2 said:
I didn't get my fermentation up higher than 72, but got very good attenuation. I don't have my notes on me but I used Wyeast seasonal stran that I got in September. I just swirled the fermenter every couple of days. I think a mashed around 147 for 90 minutes. I was busy doing something else which is why it was 90 not 60 but figured it would only help the attenuation.

That said, I think you want the flavors of higher fermentation as much as you want the dryness. If you are in Atlanta and your attic only gets to the 80s this time of year then you must have some great insulation.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it might be in the 90's -- I haven't been up there with a thermo, so who knows :p
 
I used such scheme:

- pitch 20*C (68F)
- rise 1*C a day for a week, until 27*C (~80F)
- keep 27*C until airlock activity stops (two more weeks).
- attenuation was about 75%, not enough, so I dumped it on a Cali-Ale yeast cake, and they finished the job.

The beer is very good.
 
I've used WL 566 (Saison II) and have had no problems getting this yeast to attenuate very well, even with holding the fermentation temp in the mid-60's. I fermented a big beer (10% ABV) and it ended up at 1.008 and the only thing I did was to shake it every other day to keep the yeast well suspended. Tons of flavors, even with only fermenting in the 60's. I thought this yeast also worked great in last years holiday beer.
 
Stevorino said:
Hmmmm, I'm starting to rethink my strategy. It sounds like this brew could require more than just an attic fermentation to do right.

Anyone have experience with using a fermwrap to get it up to the mid 80's? It seems that putting it in a closet with a fermwrap and temp controller may be my best option...
Click to expand...

I agree, the temp swings in the attic could cause the yeast to drop and finish way before they are done. I would use a high temp and hold steady, I am currently fermenting mind in a water bath with aquarium heater and towel over it. Works great.

I also have a fermwrap but needed it for another beer so I took it off the Saison. It can get and hold a beer to over 90 degrees if the fermenter is in something insulated. I had mine in my Son of Fermentation chamber and it held at 90 no problem.

I would not recommend hitting 90 if you are using Wyeast 3724. That high of a temp seemed to have a negative effect on my yeast and they quit on me. I had to transfer beer to another fermener, make a starter with the slurry, and then repitch to get it going again. Holding at 85 now and it is still working over 3 weeks later. Probably going to cave and pitch some Champagne yeast soon because I want to start drinking it! :)
 
steelerguy said:
I would not recommend hitting 90 if you are using Wyeast 3724. That high of a temp seemed to have a negative effect on my yeast and they quit on me. I had to transfer beer to another fermener, make a starter with the slurry, and then repitch to get it going again. Holding at 85 now and it is still working over 3 weeks later. Probably going to cave and pitch some Champagne yeast soon because I want to start drinking it! :)
Click to expand...

Jamil reported the same thing with WL Saison I yeast. When he took it above 85, the yeast quit. When he dropped below 85, it started up again.
 
Just ordered a fermwrap -- I'll put it in a closet and see what it does. I think I'll cool it down to 68 and let it ramp up naturally between 80 and 85. After listening to the Saison Jamil Show, it sounds like what you guys have been saying: Attenuation is key to this style and any decrease in temperature will really derail me from achieving that goal.

Now I just have to find myself the Saison II strain from White labs or the Wyeast strain.
 
I did a Saison last year with cultured yeast from Saison Dupont and Ommagang Hennipen saison thread
I started at 80° and ramped it up to close to 90° . I am going to do this again as soon as the second floor of my garage gets warm enough. This beer came out great
 

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