New way to control Pellet Hop gunk!

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I'll be honest folks.. I know some like the scientific side, and the whole home made engineering side, but it's really just complicating it to just make it fun I guess.

I have the 300. It clogs, evident by the pictures. I've figured it mostly to be the fact that I get break material stuck to it and it causes problems. My solution was to just put it in after I've had the hot break, or pull it as I start to heat the boil after my mash.

I also FWH pretty much every beer, and mostly with whole leaf. I could just toss them in the kettle if I was concerned with any loss in bittering or flavor while I do the hot break I suppose. Once I have the hot break, and it settles, I then consider that to be my starting point.

The filter does drain, despite being loaded out with say 7-8ounces of hop pellets. The boil isn't bubbling in it, but I haven't seen a noticeable decrease in hop flavor, aroma, or bittering in my beers with the filter.

I've resorted to pulling the filter when I'm done. Putting it in the funnel to drain into a carboy, and then draining my kettle into the carboy through the funnel. I have next to nothing in my carboys other than yeast. To be honest, I don't re use my yeast for the next batch, I might in the future, but currently don't, so it's little concern for me to keep the primary as clean as possible.

Also- trying to dial in a size might not be worthwhile really.. Pellets are ground down at many different places. They might all be different size particles, so it's pretty hard to try and figure it really.
 
For me I just want to minimize as much sludge but not at the expense of bittering...I'm a hop head! I've got my dimensions set and I've spoken to Chad but I'm still unsure if I should go 300 or 400 micron mesh. I'm leaning towards the 300 but if the 400 keeps most sludge out then I might go with that to avoid any drainage issues that might happen considering there seem to be mixed reports from folks. marcb you seem to be the resident gunniepig...when are you brewing with your 400??!! :D
 
I haven't done any big hop beers with mine yet (a 6", 300 micron filter) but what I have done is stir inside the filter every 5 to 10 minutes during the boil. That gets the gunk (I've only used pellets with it so far) off the screen and as soon as I do I see boil activity inside the filter. I plan on doing an IIPA in a few weeks so I'll know more soon, but I have to believe the hop oils are getting out and mixed into the wort.
 
I think that scraping is a good idea with these no matter what size you go with...that's something you can't really do with a hop bag.
 
mattwood2000 said:
For me I just want to minimize as much sludge but not at the expense of bittering...I'm a hop head! I've got my dimensions set and I've spoken to Chad but I'm still unsure if I should go 300 or 400 micron mesh. I'm leaning towards the 300 but if the 400 keeps most sludge out then I might go with that to avoid any drainage issues that might happen considering there seem to be mixed reports from folks. marcb you seem to be the resident gunniepig...when are you brewing with your 400??!! :D

That's me! As soon as I get it ; )

I finally got off my lazy derrière and shipped my 200 back to Chad so once he gets back I imagine I'll see it soon...... Then the plan is a 20 gallon batch of Pliny and split the massive hop bill (all pellets) in half which should be about 18oz in each basket broken up into 5 additions. So if they can handle this, they can handle anything.... I also figure that I'll know exactly what the 400 lets through as I know what to expect from the 300.
 
I used my new rig from Chad earlier this week and I am a little unsure on how it performed. I got it with the 300 micron filter, and was not getting very much flow through it with 2 oz of pellets in it.

Is there any consensus on whether these work well, or is the mesh too fine to allow for efficient diffusion of hop oils?
the boiling wort isn't free-flowing through the screen, but the is plenty enough exchange going on to get the oils out of there. it's not a perfect block. mix the contents of the filter a few times during the boil and you've got more than enough circulation IMO.
 
the boiling wort isn't free-flowing through the screen, but the is plenty enough exchange going on to get the oils out of there. it's not a perfect block. mix the contents of the filter a few times during the boil and you've got more than enough circulation IMO.

Thats what I do.. You won't get the rise of bubbles of a boil through it, it won't happen because the screen will push it around it.

I stir in it, and move around in the boil once in a while, and I've had just fine hop utilization. I do plenty of IPA's and Pales, and love me some hops, and was worried from the get go about it. Turns out, it was just fine. A little more work, and worry, but I've got clean fermenters, and everthing was tasty.
 
Anybody have any pics of one of these hooked up to their e-keggle setup? I want one not sure how it would work with the element and keggle
 
forcabrew said:
Anybody have any pics of one of these hooked up to their e-keggle setup? I want one not sure how it would work with the element and keggle

How high up is your element? I know there are pics in here of ones for kegs, not sure if they were electric or not. Can you post some pics of your setup?
 
Yambor44 said:
Check post #237, 247, 248, 250 and 328.

Thank you. Post 328 is closest to my setup. Just wondering how it would attach to the side of the keggle without being supported by sitting on the bottom of the keggle. In an auction it appears that he sells the strainers with small attachment hook type things. That's why I'm confused
 
Okay fellas'-

Here's a few quick snapshots of what I had going on today with this kettle screen.

This is a 300 micron, 6x14 screen. I removed this from the kettle while the hot break took place and tossed it back in to avoid clogging it with the break material. I also left this in when I cooled and whirlpooled it all to sit and settle.



This was a double IPA I tossed together today. It was pretty straight forward.. had FWH, and then all the other additions from 20 min, on down to 0.

I used leaf Chinook for the FWH, only an ounce. I also used Chinook at 5 min, and it was also leaf, and only .50 ounce in there.

Total, I used 9 ounces of various hops ( Amarillo, Cascade, Citra, Simcoe ). They were all pellets, other than the Chinook.

I stirred inside of the screen periodically throughout the boil- and at every addition.

Here's a picture of the bottom of the screen after I pulled it, drained it slowly and let it sit. You can see what has made it through and coated the bottom.
B03CBC6F-7184-4F7F-B94D-D97284975B6B-12088-00001621BC3E37B7.jpg

C7E50228-F242-473B-8AF6-6557EA2CB32A-12088-00001621C106E54B.jpg


There is a picture of how thick it is, I scraped a section.

Here's majority of it, dumped on a paper plate. This isn't a small cake plate, this is a normal sized paper plate. Had a decent bit caked inside of the screen.

362CDEB9-C267-4BE5-AC40-1118FF341CA5-12088-00001621D02D5C8B.jpg

E353CA7E-C8F7-49EA-9D82-951F56B9F26F-12088-00001621D51763AB.jpg



I thought it did an okay job after settling out, at giving me some pretty clean wort.
61395C26-D27F-4A3A-A4BA-DA8DD231BA40-12088-00001621CACC9FC1.jpg

A5C212E3-7ABB-45EB-9129-13E05C8B984B-12088-00001621C6115687.jpg

I drained it into the funnel, and put a paint strainer in the funnel to see what would make it through. A little bit came out, but mostly clear until the end.....

Here's what I found at the bottom of the kettle, as well as what I got some the last bit from the kettle. It was a very fine sludge, pretty darn nasty, but this is what made it out of the screen during the boil. I could easily cup my hands together and it would be overflowing with what was left!

A1C723FC-0319-4F7E-B7FD-A88D63524CA8-12088-00001621D9C19B68.jpg


So.. for those looking at the larger micron, you will probably see more sludge in your kettle and fermenter. I wouldn't go too small, as you will run the risk of not getting the full use of the hops.

There really is no perfect fix for it I think, but atleast gives you a way to manage it. The wort tasted very bitter and hoppy, so I know I got what I wanted in there. Should be around 80-85 IBU's.
 
I think the innovation of this "hop canister" is really cool and I appreciate all the hard work put into it, and I hate to be "that guy", but, wouldn't it be better to have something covering the drain siphon tube with a large surface area and allow the hops to float freely (ie. the "hop taco").

1) Possibly better utilization of hops; the hops are able to freely intermingle with more boiling water?
2) Possible smaller cost; less stainless mesh required

Again, not trying to down grade any work or testing that's been done to date, because I think thinking differently is awesome. Just trying to understand the thought process.
 
I think the innovation of this "hop canister" is really cool and I appreciate all the hard work put into it, and I hate to be "that guy", but, wouldn't it be better to have something covering the drain siphon tube with a large surface area and allow the hops to float freely (ie. the "hop taco").

I've actually used it that way as well. The first brew I got it I forgot to put it in the kettle before adding my bittering charge, so I ended up just brewing as normally and then using the screen to filter everything out as it went into my bucket. It seemed to work fine.

I don't know that you'd be able to use much less mesh, however. The surface definitely clogs as it drains. Too small and it won't work.

I think FATC1TY is right that it's primarily a break issue. That looks to me like what coats mine at the end.

As a final note, there's been a ton of back-and-forth on here about perfecting this tool, which is awesome and I can't wait to see what the group comes up with as the ideal long-term solution -- but the bottom line is that this thing works. That annoying, vegetal note I used to get in highly-hopped beers where I didn't screen them out before fermentation is totally gone. That's why I'd keep using it even if it was less convenient than it actually is.
 
stamandster said:
I think the innovation of this "hop canister" is really cool and I appreciate all the hard work put into it, and I hate to be "that guy", but, wouldn't it be better to have something covering the drain siphon tube with a large surface area and allow the hops to float freely (ie. the "hop taco").

1) Possibly better utilization of hops; the hops are able to freely intermingle with more boiling water?
2) Possible smaller cost; less stainless mesh required

Again, not trying to down grade any work or testing that's been done to date, because I think thinking differently is awesome. Just trying to understand the thought process.

Well I've been following this thread I haven't been convinced to buy one, so needing an immediate solution and using only lead hops I bought a kettle tube screen from Bobby_M. It works amazingly well, I just dump lead hops in the kettle. An interesting side effect is that a lot of the break material sticks to the lead hops and they act as a filter bed of sorts. I am pulling crystal clear wort and getting only about a 1/2" of sediment to the fermenter if that. If I use pellets though that system doesn't work so I am still considering buying one of these if I see more people gushing over them.
 
Seems like lead hops would just sink to the bottom...lol...:mug:

@ FATCITY....Nice writeup! You really put that thing to the test. Looks like if there were that much hop matter left over in the wort, the 300 is perfect for those not needing "ultra fine" filtration. For a beer with less hops, I bet there'd be very little left in the kettle.
 
FATC1TY said:
Okay fellas'-

Here's a few quick snapshots of what I had going on today with this kettle screen.

This is a 300 micron, 6x14 screen. I removed this from the kettle while the hot break took place and tossed it back in to avoid clogging it with the break material. I also left this in when I cooled and whirlpooled it all to sit and settle.

This was a double IPA I tossed together today. It was pretty straight forward.. had FWH, and then all the other additions from 20 min, on down to 0.

I used leaf Chinook for the FWH, only an ounce. I also used Chinook at 5 min, and it was also leaf, and only .50 ounce in there.

Total, I used 9 ounces of various hops ( Amarillo, Cascade, Citra, Simcoe ). They were all pellets, other than the Chinook.

I stirred inside of the screen periodically throughout the boil- and at every addition.

Here's a picture of the bottom of the screen after I pulled it, drained it slowly and let it sit. You can see what has made it through and coated the bottom.

There is a picture of how thick it is, I scraped a section.

Here's majority of it, dumped on a paper plate. This isn't a small cake plate, this is a normal sized paper plate. Had a decent bit caked inside of the screen.

I thought it did an okay job after settling out, at giving me some pretty clean wort.

I drained it into the funnel, and put a paint strainer in the funnel to see what would make it through. A little bit came out, but mostly clear until the end.....

Here's what I found at the bottom of the kettle, as well as what I got some the last bit from the kettle. It was a very fine sludge, pretty darn nasty, but this is what made it out of the screen during the boil. I could easily cup my hands together and it would be overflowing with what was left!

So.. for those looking at the larger micron, you will probably see more sludge in your kettle and fermenter. I wouldn't go too small, as you will run the risk of not getting the full use of the hops.

There really is no perfect fix for it I think, but atleast gives you a way to manage it. The wort tasted very bitter and hoppy, so I know I got what I wanted in there. Should be around 80-85 IBU's.

Hi, I'm still tripping out that you are seeing that much residue out of a 300! I use a false bottom in my kettle but the end of day residue when I'm cleaning out my kettle with the 300 is limited to a light coating on the FB. I will see if I have a pic of it. Chad is shipping me a 400 (to replace my 200 that was way too fine) so I will be able to do a side by side with those, maybe I should do a batch with just the 400 first as a control but I've never gotten that much sludge through my 300.
 
stamandster said:
I think the innovation of this "hop canister" is really cool and I appreciate all the hard work put into it, and I hate to be "that guy", but, wouldn't it be better to have something covering the drain siphon tube with a large surface area and allow the hops to float freely (ie. the "hop taco").

1) Possibly better utilization of hops; the hops are able to freely intermingle with more boiling water?
2) Possible smaller cost; less stainless mesh required

Again, not trying to down grade any work or testing that's been done to date, because I think thinking differently is awesome. Just trying to understand the thought process.

Sure, there are lots of ways to skin a cat.... I researched hop stoppers and spiders before going down this route and haven't really looked back, feel free to post photos and experiences with solving this problem in other ways to this thread, that's what it's all about!
 
I think the innovation of this "hop canister" is really cool and I appreciate all the hard work put into it, and I hate to be "that guy", but, wouldn't it be better to have something covering the drain siphon tube with a large surface area and allow the hops to float freely (ie. the "hop taco").

1) Possibly better utilization of hops; the hops are able to freely intermingle with more boiling water?
2) Possible smaller cost; less stainless mesh required

Again, not trying to down grade any work or testing that's been done to date, because I think thinking differently is awesome. Just trying to understand the thought process.

By hop taco do you the hop stopper? I almost bought one until reading people's feedback that with break material + whirlfloc + pellet hops they clog easily and flow can slow down to a trickle. The most common work around was to drain slowly which again isn't ideal if you're doing single pass chilling as the bulk of your wort will remain hot.

I doubt there's a single fix all wonder product for this particular dilema, but I bet you'd get really good results pairing this basket + a hop stopper together.
 
I wonder if you could use one of these to wash yeast? Set it inside a pitcher, strain your yeast from your fermenter then transfer the yeast to jars. I use a lot of dry hops and think this may help strain most of that out when washing yeast.
 
Hi, I'm still tripping out that you are seeing that much residue out of a 300! I use a false bottom in my kettle but the end of day residue when I'm cleaning out my kettle with the 300 is limited to a light coating on the FB. I will see if I have a pic of it. Chad is shipping me a 400 (to replace my 200 that was way too fine) so I will be able to do a side by side with those, maybe I should do a batch with just the 400 first as a control but I've never gotten that much sludge through my 300.

Do you stir inside of your hop screen? I do, so it may be pushing some of it out.

I've seen that after every brew that had any significant amount of hops in it. It was actually better this time, as I pulled it before I got the hot break. I get REALLY good hot breaks, so I figured I would eliminate the coating of the whole screen with it. I would lose minimal bittering if any from the FWH. As they are out for 5 minutes, after being in there from the first runnings, and heating the whole time.
 
FATC1TY said:
Do you stir inside of your hop screen? I do, so it may be pushing some of it out.

I've seen that after every brew that had any significant amount of hops in it. It was actually better this time, as I pulled it before I got the hot break. I get REALLY good hot breaks, so I figured I would eliminate the coating of the whole screen with it. I would lose minimal bittering if any from the FWH. As they are out for 5 minutes, after being in there from the first runnings, and heating the whole time.

I stir like crazy at every addition and a couple of extra times during the boil. I am doing 20 gallon batches so my boil volume is about 23-24 gallons (as you've seen in various pics in the thread) so maybe there is a hop to wort volume explanation.... the perceived bitterness at first taste (of my gravity samples) is intense but seem to fade away nicely to a reasonable level durong fermentation. the last time out it was a really cold day but I still had a vigorous boil going for 60 minutes but didn't get much hot break for some reason....
 
I stir like crazy at every addition and a couple of extra times during the boil. I am doing 20 gallon batches so my boil volume is about 23-24 gallons (as you've seen in various pics in the thread) so maybe there is a hop to wort volume explanation.... the perceived bitterness at first taste (of my gravity samples) is intense but seem to fade away nicely to a reasonable level durong fermentation. the last time out it was a really cold day but I still had a vigorous boil going for 60 minutes but didn't get much hot break for some reason....

I don't think the volume has anything to do with it.. If you do a 10 gal boil with 2 ounces of hops, and I do a 5 gal boil with 1 ounce of hops, it's still the same volume/hop ratio.

My gravity samples all have some great bitterness to them, and like you said, they all fade out during fermentation and the beer comes around and tastes great. I was worried about not getting good use from the hops, or overloading the screen. This is the biggest amount of hops I've tossed in the screen at one time as well. I'm wondering if my stirring could be pushing the fine particulate out..

Which brings me back to what I said a couple of pages ago. I think it varies from hop farm to hop farm and who processed the pellets. Some might be a more course or more fine particle. No real perfect screen I think.

I've just gotten used to the idea of using the screen, cooling a little, whirlpooling, cooling it the rest of the way, and then letting it settle. I draw pretty clear wort from the valve as is, and will line a funnel with a paint strainer bag like I did. It aerates the wort really, really well that way. I had close to 5 inches of foam on top of the wort in the carboy when I was done transferring. It's not much extra work and doubles up to aerate so it works well in my system.

I do think that the break material could be a thing to watch for though. I get really robust hot breaks, that I have to let settle and rise for about 3-5 minutes or it'll boil over. I've been pulling the screen as I see it starting to get foamy on top and don't put it back until it's all dropped and cleared out. Seems to help keep it less clogged.
 
I don't think the volume has anything to do with it.. If you do a 10 gal boil with 2 ounces of hops, and I do a 5 gal boil with 1 ounce of hops, it's still the same volume/hop ratio.

Wouldn't you also have to scale the size of the hop strainer? If you had a 8" x 14" hop strainer, the maximum volume of liquid that could pass through it should be the same regardless of the volume of liquid in the kettle.

So then wouldn't 2oz of hop mass in a 10 gal boil provide more resistance to the volume of liquid that can circulate than 1oz of hop mass in a 5 gal boil?

To be fair, fluid dynamics is not my forte so I could be incorrect, but that's the assumption I'd make.
 
Big ups on Chad's customer service. I received one of these as a gift and it wasn't exactly what I wanted, he made it super easy to exchange it for a custom build more suited to me. Very happy with the service, can't wait to try the product out.
 
wobdee said:
Hey, that looks like my bucket! Lol, I've been working with Chad on this to prototype a s/s BIAB type system for my 8gl kettle. It should work nicely for my 2.5 gl batches. I hope to get it in operation soon and will give you all a good review on how it works.

I saw the other piece to press the liquid out today, looks pretty sharp. I'm interested in seeing how this works out for you!
 
I got the one from stainless brewing. It's decent although I'm not terribly impressed with the build quality, there is no mesh support so it just kind of dents. 400 Kept my plate chiller from clogging. UHow much is one of the ones from chad.
 
Wouldn't you also have to scale the size of the hop strainer? If you had a 8" x 14" hop strainer, the maximum volume of liquid that could pass through it should be the same regardless of the volume of liquid in the kettle.

So then wouldn't 2oz of hop mass in a 10 gal boil provide more resistance to the volume of liquid that can circulate than 1oz of hop mass in a 5 gal boil?

To be fair, fluid dynamics is not my forte so I could be incorrect, but that's the assumption I'd make.

Perhaps, but as far as "pass through" it's a variable changed only by the micron of the screen really.

But in our case here, he offers a stock 8x14 that most people are using that fits in most larger kettles.
 
I just got one from stainless brewing as well. I was impressed with the quality. I could see how it could get dented, but then I'm not planning to play foot ball with it. I guess I need to use it for a few years and see how it holds up, but it seems sturdy enough.
 
Just found another use for this basket. I racked a heavily dry hopped Red Ale into a keg this morning and then placed the hop basket inside a large pitcher, poured the sludge out of the bottom of the carboy through it and ended up with a nice pint of clean yeast without any hop gunk.
 
Anyone have any thoughts of the implications of the basket (4-6" dia.) sitting directly on the bottom of a burner heated kettle, versus sitting 0.5-1 inch off of the bottom? I am strongly considering one for my 10 gal boilermaker, and I wonder if it is also worth it to have some sort of stand-off from the side of the kettle (like the third and fourth pix in the ebay listing), so the the wort can freely circulate around the entire basket.
 
Anyone have any thoughts of the implications of the basket (4-6" dia.) sitting directly on the bottom of a burner heated kettle, versus sitting 0.5-1 inch off of the bottom? I am strongly considering one for my 10 gal boilermaker, and I wonder if it is also worth it to have some sort of stand-off from the side of the kettle (like the third and fourth pix in the ebay listing), so the the wort can freely circulate around the entire basket.

Mine sits around 1-2 inches off the bottom I think when I hang it from the side. I have on several occasions, taken it off the side and let it sit on the bottom. I had no issues with it on the bottom of a kettle headed with a big propane burner.
 
I'm really looking at buying one of these.

Give it a shot. If you don't like it for the boil, it actually works great to strain the wort going into the fermenter and aerate it as well.

I've found my beers clear a bit sooner with not having all the crap in the fermenter. If anything, it's easier to clean the carboys out.
 
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