How often is too often?

This question's been rolling around my head for a few months now.
We're all beer fans. Hell, we homebrew. Par for the course. I'm not really considering the health affects so much here, or what the book definition of alcoholism is- BUT I'd like to hear from everyone in what they personally feel is too much. How often is too often?

Personally, there was a time when I felt once a week was too much. Now, beer is sometimes part of my meal plan. :cross:

1-2 drinks daily are a recommended activity for your health. Lowers blood pressure, chance of stroke, chance of heart attack.

When you're getting fatter from beer calories, that's probably too much. Of course, brewing burns tons of calories, so...

Well, I don't drink much soda or tea. I drink coffee in the morning, usually. So it's almost only beer and water for me after work. As far as how much is too much, many studies have shown that there are correlations between good health and 1-2 drinks per day, while any more than that (for the average male) starts to become detrimental long term.

There seems to be a lot of *****-ing out on the homebrew forums lately.

its not so much about frequency as it is about quantity. more than 1-2 servings of alcohol (1 serving = 1.5oz distilled liquor, 5oz of wine, or 12oz of beer) a day would be considered over indulging. I'd say if you have over 2 more than 2 times a week you could cut back, but to each there own. For me I don't drink on work nights because it makes getting up in the morning just that much worse.

This thread again...

As someone who has worked in a medical capacity, sports trauma but I think the experience is relevant, here is my opinion:

The human body is incredibly complex and each persons body reacts so differently to things that basic generalizations are not possible. I witnessed people(of all different ages and health backgrounds) have horrific and life altering injuries from relatively modest mechanisms of injury. At the same time I witnessed people with horrific MOI that had little to no injury.

Its kind of the same thing as the lady who smokes 2 packs a day for 60 years and lives to 90(my grandma) or the guy who smokes for a few years in college and gets lung cancer at 40 and dies a year later.


Who knows what parts of your body may be resilient and which may me fragile.


My opinion is not to over do it and try to have some focus on healthiness in general(activity and/or diet).

Also, try not to worry about it too much because that's probably worse for you than the bad act itself.

A beer or 2 a day is fine any more then that and my body feels it.

Cyclman said:

1-2 drinks daily are a recommended activity for your health. Lowers blood pressure, chance of stroke, chance of heart attack.

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Not really... The deleterious effects of ETOH vastly outweigh whatever positive effects the latest research of the month finds... Not wanting to put a damper on drinking beer in a beer forum but that's how it is. Most people can get away with drinking "moderate" amounts of ETOH and be fine... Simply depends on how healthy one wants to be, genetics, and the luck of the draw....

All else being equal, the less animal products, added fats and oils, ETOH, tobacco and processed foods one consumes, the healthier one will become. How one choose to deviate from this and how far one can push the boundaries an individual thing. Drinking beer, wine, and other ETOH is fine... probably not a good thing to perpetuate the meme that it actually is good for people though... Now, waiting to see the links about how ETOH is good for you to start coming in...

norsk said:

Not really... The deleterious effects of ETOH vastly outweigh whatever positive effects the latest research of the month finds... Not wanting to put a damper on drinking beer in a beer forum but that's how it is. Most people can get away with drinking "moderate" amounts of ETOH and be fine... Simply depends on how healthy one wants to be, genetics, and the luck of the draw....

All else being equal, the less animal products, added fats and oils, ETOH, tobacco and processed foods one consumes, the healthier one will become. How one choose to deviate from this and how far one can push the boundaries an individual thing. Drinking beer, wine, and other ETOH is fine... probably not a good thing to perpetuate the meme that it actually is good for people though... Now, waiting to see the links about how ETOH is good for you to start coming in...

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I was with you til you started about animal products...

I could starting talking about specific amino acids among the other nutritional benefits found in meat but not vegetables but in general to say that a balanced diet that includes lean protein is not beneficial to health is IMO a bit ridiculous.

I do however agree with your characterization of "ETOH". The long and short of it is that alcohol is a drug(and not very different than most of the illegal ones IME) and basically a toxin that your body has to metabolize and remove.

I for one dont see life being as good without beer and cheese or red wine and a porterhouse.

More than one beer per hour is too often.

Xpertskir said:

This thread again...

As someone who has worked in a medical capacity, sports trauma but I think the experience is relevant, here is my opinion:

The human body is incredibly complex and each persons body reacts so differently to things that basic generalizations are not possible. I witnessed people(of all different ages and health backgrounds) have horrific and life altering injuries from relatively modest mechanisms of injury. At the same time I witnessed people with horrific MOI that had little to no injury.

Its kind of the same thing as the lady who smokes 2 packs a day for 60 years and lives to 90(my grandma) or the guy who smokes for a few years in college and gets lung cancer at 40 and dies a year later.


Who knows what parts of your body may be resilient and which may me fragile.


My opinion is not to over do it and try to have some focus on healthiness in general(activity and/or diet).

Also, try not to worry about it too much because that's probably worse for you than the bad act itself.

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I agree everyone's genetic make up is different. I do plenty things that are worse for my health than drinking, but Im more less asking for opinion based on the social aspect...not so much health.

Any alcohol consumption is too much. You booze, you lose!

liquiditynerd said:

More than one beer per hour is too often.

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the first 23 go down very easily

Stress is the #1 killer. The more I drink the less stressed I am. You do the math.

I have one to two drinks a night and maybe three on a Saturday night. Now brew days are a different story. Gotta "research" the style I'm brewing and gotta keep busy somehow while waiting for the mash or sparge.

No two people have the exact same tolerance for alcohol We can't tell you if it is too important in your life. Go with your gut hunch. If you think you are drinking too much for you, you probably are. By the time your employer says you're drinking too much, it's too late to avoid the painful consequences of alcoholism. Best of luck with your decisions.

JW

Probably the amount that swmbo deems too much.

SmokeNbrew said:

This question's been rolling around my head for a few months now.
We're all beer fans. Hell, we homebrew. Par for the course. I'm not really considering the health affects so much here, or what the book definition of alcoholism is- BUT I'd like to hear from everyone in what they personally feel is too much. How often is too often?

Personally, there was a time when I felt once a week was too much. Now, beer is sometimes part of my meal plan. :cross:

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When you have to ask. That's usually a pretty good indicator.

Last year I had to cut back due to blood work that showed elevated ALT/AST #'s (Liver). They were considered double normal, after cutting back to 4 a day for 1 month the numbers went back to normal...

My Dr. summed it up like this..... "There's an old russian who drinks 2 bottles of Vodka a day and nothings wrong with him, his buddy has a sip of wine and get's cirrosis"....

So, it's all in your genetics.

dstranger99 said:

Last year I had to cut back due to blood work that showed elevated ALT/AST #'s (Liver). They were considered double normal, after cutting back to 4 a day for 1 month the numbers went back to normal...

My Dr. summed it up like this..... "There's an old russian who drinks 2 bottles of Vodka a day and nothings wrong with him, his buddy has a sip of wine and get's cirrosis"....

So, it's all in your genetics.

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Thats pretty interesting with consuming 4 a day...glad those #'s are under control now.

To everyone- I appreciate the input so far. I think TX is right, if you are already questioning yourself thats a good indicator. I certainly question myself time to time.

I find the question interesting, because one person's social environment to the next is different. Environment teaches us behavior...it's learned. When I think about this, I wonder if the homebrewer/beer aficionado is a little more liberal in their views compared to the people around them.

In my case, I typically drink on a weekly basis. At times nightly. The amount always varies. Typically more on the weekends, especially in social settings.

I just enjoy beer, it's not just the affects of the alcohol in itself. I enjoy the culture, the history, the process etc. My attitude towards beer/alcohol is mostly liberal. I feel Im mostly self-aware and feel my attitude towards consumption is balanced 90% of the time.

In contrast, my social environment would teach that alcohol is a source of misery and a path to destruction. However, one could say the same about money? Either way, I don't always find myself being socially accepted. Not rejected as an alcoholic, but not accepted as being congruent in what they feel is acceptable.

Do you find youself feeling the same way?

Sometimes I find myself in need of going a day without having a beer. So I open the Glenfiddich. Another problem SOLVED by the Paulster.

It's not how much you drink. It's when you become addicted to drinking. Why do we keep coming back to this topic?

When you need to drink or think you need to drink, you're probably already getting there.

When it takes over your life in a way that impacts you and your loved ones negatively, you're definitely there.

SmokeNbrew said:

In my case, I typically drink on a weekly basis. At times nightly. The amount always varies. Typically more on the weekends, especially in social settings.

I just enjoy beer, it's not just the affects of the alcohol in itself. I enjoy the culture, the history, the process etc. My attitude towards beer/alcohol is mostly liberal. I feel Im mostly self-aware and feel my attitude towards consumption is balanced 90% of the time.

In contrast, my social environment would teach that alcohol is a source of misery and a path to destruction. However, one could say the same about money? Either way, I don't always find myself being socially accepted. Not rejected as an alcoholic, but not accepted as being congruent in what they feel is acceptable.

Do you find youself feeling the same way?

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I drink alot too, not as much as I did, but it was common for me to drink 10 per day on weekdays, 18 on a Saturday, 14 on Sunday. I did this for 20 years and was never thought of as a drunk. My Dr. told me "your pretty much a drunk when it it takes hold of your health and you don't care". In my case I cut back and my blood results were great. I do a 6 pack a day now, and I'm still fine. You are too.......Stop worrying about it.

thadius856 said:

It's not how much you drink. It's when you become addicted to drinking. Why do we keep coming back to this topic?

When you need to drink or think you need to drink, you're probably already getting there.

When it takes over your life in a way that impacts you and your loved ones negatively, you're definitely there.

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Thad, you're definitely right. Those symptoms are definitely indicative of lost control. The ability of being able to discuss these things with others, can hopefully provide that ounce of prevention, which we all know is worth a pound of cure.

This leads me to my point and a direct answer to your question of: "Why do we keep coming back to this topic?"

I believe we keep coming back to this topic, because not only is this forum a source of information, but it's also a forum of brotherhood and fellowship. The human element. Sometimes things are just about support. It's what community is founded on.

Im finding this to be a hell of a community and I appreciate ya'lls support. I'll raise a beer to that.

paulster2626 said:

sometimes i find myself in need of going a day without having a beer. So i open the glenfiddich. Another problem solved by the paulster.

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lol!

^ This reminds me of the episode on Two and a Half Men, where Charlie believes he quit drinking, since he's only drinking beer now.

Like the song says; "Don't worry..........Be Happy"

When you are drinking rather than taking care of your responsibilities ie: work, picking your kid up from school, having dinner with your wife, you have a problem

To answer the OP, "Never."

6 pack a day keeps the doctor away

In all seriousness, 1-2 a day=14 per week, if you're like me, you may go the weekdays without a beer, then catch-up on the weekend

Airplanedoc said:

When you are drinking rather than taking care of your responsibilities ie: work, picking your kid up from school, having dinner with your wife, you have a problem

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This. Those are basics on what constitutes a dependency, be it alcohol or drugs, porn, my little ponies, etc. Alcoholism is rampant in parts of my family. Dependency issues IN MY OPINION are genetic. It skipped me. I usually have a beer every night. To excess? No. Excess to some people? Yes, but I have my ducks in a row so my life is not affected. My favorite way to look at it is like this...

My girlfriend loves Dr. Pepper. Drinks one or more daily. She likes the taste. Good alternative to water (though she drinks more water than I do most of the time). Dr. Pepper is bad for you too. For me I like beer. Love the way it tastes, especially since I made it. Unfortunately it has alcohol in it so people think it's going to ruin your life. I tell my GF all the time, IF THEY MADE ALL MY FAVORITE BEERS WITH NO ALCOHOL BUT TASTED THE SAME, I'D DRINK THOSE OVER THE ALCOHOLIC VERSION HANDS DOWN. Beer is our soda, it just so happens that it has alcohol in it. We just have to remember that and mind our P's & Q's.

To the OP, sometimes I think I drink too much and sometimes I don't. You just have to look at when, where, and why you're consuming. To be social with friends at the bar? After work and have a couple to wind down? To forget? To remember? (if that's possible)... Like most have said, everyone is unique to their lives and situations.

thadius856 said:

It's not how much you drink. It's when you become addicted to drinking. Why do we keep coming back to this topic?

When you need to drink or think you need to drink, you're probably already getting there.

When it takes over your life in a way that impacts you and your loved ones negatively, you're definitely there.

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Baloney.

Scenario: I am travelling, lets say from Toronto to Aspen, with a stop in Chicago. I am with my wife and 10-month old. Here's the steps:
1) Get family to airport.
2) Somehow maneuvre skis, luggage, stroller, to check-in. Why do they make the line switch-backs so tight? ARRGH!
3) Take all those effing bags to the drop-off conveyor belt.
4) Go through customs.
5) Go through security.
6) Get to gate. Relax.
7) Early boarding on plane.
8) Flight. Pass kid around. He is hot as ****. So is the plane. Why the hell is the plane so goddamn hot?
9) Land. Walk 2 miles through Chicago airport to connecting gate.
10) Early boarding on a plane.
11) Flight. Pass kid around. Jesus, how is it possible that this plane is HOTTER than the first one?
12) Land. Gather luggage. Breathe mountain air.
13) Pile stuff in van-taxi-thing. Drive 5 miles to hotel.
14) Arrive at hotel. Check in. Drag stuff to room.
15) Arrive in room. Unpack? **** that. LETS GO TO LIQUOR STORE
16) Stop at bar. Get food. Get booze. Drunken haze until it's time to go home.


Step 6 happens at like 7:00 am. It is from that point on where I become a crusty dirtbag who is a jerk to everyone (family included) until I get to step 16, many hours later.

Who knows, maybe I am an alcoholic.

When ADL's (activities of daily living) cannot be performed without alcohol, that is my interpretation of too much (alcoholism). I usually have 2-3 beers on 2-3 weeknights. Weekends are another story, it is not uncommon for 6-8 on Fri and Sat.

Honestly for me 3 moderate gravity beers have little to no effect if consumed in an hour. My tolerance for alcohol depends on how much I exercise, and currently not exercising so I can tolerate much more. I would love it if 2 brews got me buzzin but that hasn't happened in 15 years.

I don't attribute my drinking to anything other than the fact that I like beer, wine, whiskey, mead, etc. The effects of the alcohol are nice (sometimes). Getting a buzz is fun for me as I'm sure it is for most of us. I feel good when I'm buzzed. On the other hand I also have fun when I'm not buzzed and I also feel good when I'm not buzzed. It's not one or the other.

Most of the time I don't drink enough to get a buzz. I usually drink more in social settings like parties or band practice.

Beer plays an important part in my life not because it'll getcha drunk but because it's a fantastic hobby, it's delicious and it's delicious! If someone said that I couldn't have beer anymore, of course I would be upset. Not because I need it but because I love it. It's the same as telling me that I can't watch football or go fishing.

+2 pennies

BigRedHopHead said:

When ADL's (activities of daily living) cannot be performed without alcohol, that is my interpretation of too much (alcoholism). I usually have 2-3 beers on 2-3 weeknights. Weekends are another story, it is not uncommon for 6-8 on Fri and Sat.

Honestly for me 3 moderate gravity beers have little to no effect if consumed in an hour. My tolerance for alcohol depends on how much I exercise, and currently not exercising so I can tolerate much more. I would love it if 2 brews got me buzzin but that hasn't happened in 15 years.

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Interestin, the inverse for me. The more I exercise the more I metabolize beer. ( or so I think) I run a lot and I find that 2 beers in an ice bath are just the thing. After a marathon, meaning the afternoon of and the next day, I find myself in the beer aisle looking like homer Simpson. Every now and then my long runs turn into 16-18 milers and lemme tell ya what a twelve pack and some hamburgers taste like after.

The social implications are something to consider. I live in the bible belt of the deep south. A beer is too much to some but yet we can drink outside and walk around downtown, its a to go cup. I spent a decade in construction and realized some of the guys coffee cups didn't have any steam, if you get me. Being self employed I could crack one but I know have have priorities so I wait until I am through for the day. I also don't just sit around drinking beer, if I get into a couple cold ones I'm probably still working in the shed or cleaning the shop.

I guess it's a fine line between moderation, functional drunk, and an alcoholic. For now though I'm the last one to go to bed, the first one up, and the only one who remembered what happened.

liquiditynerd said:

More than one beer per hour is too often.

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Yes, but only if we are talking averages... So more than 24 beers on any given day is probably a bit too much. Keyword probably.

The way I see it there are 2 types of alcoholics:

1. Functional

2. Non-functional.

My grandfather drank a 6 pack a day from his 40's through age 80! He was 100% fine no matter how much beer he drank but if someone gave him liquor he was done! As long as he had a beer in his hand he was happy, functional and seemingly sober! BTW: He lived till age 86 and had no real health problems (save for one stroke at age 83, ironically he had not been drinking for 3 years when the stroke happened). We are convinced he would have lived longer if he didn't stop drinking...

Non-functional alcoholism takes over your life. If you are late to work because you were out drinking the night before...you might have a problem. If you are falling asleep at your job or craving a beer at 1pm...you might have a problem.



Personally I usually have 1-2 beers per day but I can easily just stop drinking for a week without craving a beer (as long as I don't see someone else drinking a beer!) I hate being drunk and the associated hangovers so I always limit my drinking and try to not drink within 2 hours of when I plan to go to sleep.

liquiditynerd said:

Interestin, the inverse for me. The more I exercise the more I metabolize beer.

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Pretty sure I've read that alcohol metabolism doesn't depend on level of fitness. Thought I'm pretty sure that I have read studies that said fat does store alcohol, resulting in a prolonged release back to the bloodstream. In other words, those with higher amounts of body fat become intoxicated slower, but remain intoxicated at a lower level for longer. This seems to agree with your anecdote, but I can't have any clue if you actually lost body fat with cardio or just stacked on muscle with strength training or something else entirely.

An interesting bit that I just found Googling around...

Alcohol metabolism alters the balance of reproductive hormones in men and women (23-28). In men, alcohol metabolism contributes to testicular injury and impairs testosterone synthesis and sperm production (24,29). In a study of normal healthy men who received 220 grams of alcohol daily for 4 weeks, testosterone levels declined after only 5 days and continued to fall throughout the study period (30,31). Prolonged testosterone deficiency may contribute to feminization in males, for example, breast enlargement (32). In addition, alcohol may interfere with normal sperm structure and movement by inhibiting the metabolism of vitamin A, which is essential for sperm development (30,33). In women, alcohol metabolism may contribute to increased production of a form of estrogen called estradiol (which contributes to increased bone density and reduced risk of coronary artery disease) and to decreased estradiol metabolism, resulting in elevated estradiol levels (28). One research review indicates that estradiol levels increased in premenopausal women who consumed slightly more than enough alcohol to reach the legal limit of alcohol (BAC of 0.10 percent) acutely (28). A study of the effect of alcohol on estradiol levels in postmenopausal women found that in women wearing estradiol skin patches, acute alcohol consumption significantly elevated estradiol levels over the short term (34).

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paulster2626 said:

stuff

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Cool story, bro.