Bicarbonate from Total Alkalinity

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TrexAssmaster

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I am really hoping someone can help me with this! I am entering my local water profile into Beersmith and I am missing a few fields. I had my water tested at a local, professional, lab and have the water report. I have data for Total Alkalinity and pH, as well as hardness, chloride, SO4, calcium, and Sodium. There was no data for magnesium. My question is, how do I properly calculate bicarbonate from the parameters I have? I have looked on several forums and seem to get different answers every where I look. Any and all help on this issue is greatly appreciated!
 
From what I understand, unless the pH of you water is extremely high (above 8.5 or so) then you can assume almost all of the total alkalinity is in the form of bicarbonate. Note that if alkalinity is reported as CaCO3 then you need to multiply that number by 1.22 to get the bicarbonate concentration.

You can also calculate the magnesium concentration if you want using the equation:

Hardness as CaCO3 = 2.5[Ca2+] + 4.1[Mg2+]
 
Thanks for the reply! The pH here is 8.71. The total alkalinity is reported as 185 mg/L but it isn't specified if that is CaCO3, but I am assuming it is. The same goes for hardness, they did not specify on many of the parameters, but again, I will assume hardness as CaCO3. Thanks again for your help!
 
Well at that pH you'll start getting some carbonate in addition to bicarbonate (but it will still be largely bicarbonate). I'd recommend downloading a copy of Bru'n Water (https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/). It has a calculator there that will give you the carbonate/bicarbonate concentrations given the pH and alkalinity (and calculate most everything else you'll need to calculate for your water).

That's a fairly high alkalinity which will need to be reduced for most beer styles. If you post the full water profile I'm sure someone will chime in with more specific advice about what to do with the water.
 
Does your city publish a water report? Check it out on line or call them. They are required to check for certain things. I think Mg is one.
 
As bdh said, there is a conversion calculator on the Water Report Input page of Bru'n Water. That will provide the values you need for your other program. Since the pH is a little high, there will be a little CO3 along with the HCO3. I would just plug in the reported alkalinity and a lower water pH that will give you the result as virtually all HCO3. That can then go into any water program.
 
If you copy this

((((((-0.0591384*pH + 3.11647)*pH - 70.2631)*pH + 878.007)*pH - 6565.02)*pH + 29368.026)*pH - 72780.088)*pH + 77220.723

into a spreadsheet cell and replace 'pH' with the name of a cell which contains a pH value between 5 and 9.5 (or declare a variable named 'pH') the cell containing this polynomial will evaluate to the number of mg/L bicarbonate for a solution of alkalinity 100 ppm as CaCO3 (titrated to end point 4.3). The attached graph shows calculated values, the polynomial fit to them and the residuals. It also clearly shows the 'flat' region (between, say, pH 6 and 8.3) where 61*alk/50 is reasonably accurate.

bicarbAlk.jpg
 
A.J's reply is correct. But in the context of brewing water calculators you need to know that most of them ask for bicarbonate to calculate alkalinity. And since most of them are using the simple "alkalinity = bicarb * 50 /61" formula you should calculate bicarbonate as "alkalinity * 61/50" when your water calculator asks for bicarbonate. To be correct, water calculators should ask for alkalinity *or* bicarbonate and pH.

Kai
 
The head chemist with my municipality described bicarbonate content as "a fraction of total alkalinity" and that fraction is derived by molecular weight. To quote him from an email:

"HCO3 (bicarbonate) is a fractional part of CaCO3 (units of the total alkalinity), by means of the molecular weights 100.086 to 61.016 (61.016/100.086 = 0.6096).
This concerns mass units only.
This says HCO3 is 60.96% of the mass of CaCO3. The titration test for these is the same, using Sulfuric Acid.
Using a test value from the annual report of 189.3 ppm(mg/L) Total Alkalinity… 189.3 X 0.6096 = 115.40 mg/L (ppm) as Bicarbonate ion (HCO3) in City Water."


This does not jive with what Bru'N Water outputs when I put in alkalinity & pH, nor does it jive with what else is said above. What gives?
 
The head chemist with my municipality described bicarbonate content as "a fraction of total alkalinity" and that fraction is derived by molecular weight. To quote him from an email:

"HCO3 (bicarbonate) is a fractional part of CaCO3 (units of the total alkalinity), by means of the molecular weights 100.086 to 61.016 (61.016/100.086 = 0.6096).
This concerns mass units only.
This says HCO3 is 60.96% of the mass of CaCO3. The titration test for these is the same, using Sulfuric Acid.
Using a test value from the annual report of 189.3 ppm(mg/L) Total Alkalinity… 189.3 X 0.6096 = 115.40 mg/L (ppm) as Bicarbonate ion (HCO3) in City Water."


This does not jive with what Bru'N Water outputs when I put in alkalinity & pH, nor does it jive with what else is said above. What gives?

It appears he's ignoring the fact that each molecule [CO3]2- neutralizes 2 H+.

Summary of alkalinity conversions here:
http://www.cdph.ca.gov/certlic/drinkingwater/Documents/Drinkingwaterlabs/AlkalinityConversions.pdf
 
The head chemist with my municipality described bicarbonate content as "a fraction of total alkalinity"

No, as we shall see, the bicarbonate content is, numerically, about 22% greater than the alkalinity number. It is correct to say that bicarbonate is responsible for only a fraction of the total alkalinity but under normal circumstances (i.e. potable water) that is usually a large fraction. The other things adding to alkalinity are carbonate ion, hydroxyl ion and the water itself (see below).

and that fraction is derived by molecular weight.

The fraction is determined by computing the distribution of carbo (carbonic, bicarbonate, carbonate) species and considering the H+ and OH- ion content of the water.

To quote him from an email:

"HCO3 (bicarbonate) is a fractional part of CaCO3 (units of the total alkalinity), by means of the molecular weights 100.086 to 61.016 (61.016/100.086 = 0.6096).
This concerns mass units only.
This says HCO3 is 60.96% of the mass of CaCO3. The titration test for these is the same, using Sulfuric Acid.
Using a test value from the annual report of 189.3 ppm(mg/L) Total Alkalinity… 189.3 X 0.6096 = 115.40 mg/L (ppm) as Bicarbonate ion (HCO3) in City Water."


This does not jive with what Bru'N Water outputs when I put in alkalinity & pH, nor does it jive with what else is said above. What gives?

What gives is that your man is all wet. Alkalinity is, as he says, measured by titrating a sample of the water with sulfuric acid. The alkalinity is defined as the number of milliequivalents required to bring 1 liter of sample to a prescribed pH. It is common practice to multiply this number by 50 (half the molecular weight of calcium carbonate) in North America and report ;ppm as calcium carbonate'. Thus in this case the alkalinity was reported at 189.3 implying that the acid required was 189.3/50 = 3.786 mEq/L. If we assume that all the acid absorption was done by bicarbonate ion i.e. that there was insignificant levels of carbonate and/or hydroxyl ions in the sample (both of which assumptions are pretty good as long as the pH is below 9 or so which it is in most cases) then we would note that each milliquivalent of acid neutralized one milliequivalent of bicarbonate. As the equivalent weight of bicarbonate is 61 mg/mEq we would multiply the 3.786 by 61 and conclude that the bicarbonate content is 231 mg/L. Bicarbonate ion concentration (in mg/L) is a bit bigger than the alkalinity (by about 61/50 or 22%) under normal circumstances.

Things are, as you will probably have no trouble appreciating, a bit more complex than this as hinted at above. The details can be found at http://www.wetnewf.org/pdfs/carbonate-species-distribut.html. Additional information, including details (with illustrations) of how alkalinity is measured are at http://www.wetnewf.org/pdfs/measuring-alkalinity.html.

You'll note that your man's answer is about half the correct one. He is basing it on the fact that 100 mg CaCO3 contains 61 mg of bicarbonate. He is failing to account for the fact that the factor 50 is used so that if 100 mg/L CaCO3 is dissolved in the natural way, i.e. by carbonic acid from carbon dioxide that both alkalinity and hardness will be about 100 ppm 'as CaCO3'. The reaction is

CaCO3 + H20 + CO2 ---> Ca + 2HCO3-

Thus each 100 mg (mmol) of dissolved calcium carbonate results in 2 mmol dissolved bicarbonate ion: 1 from the CaCO3 and one from the air (or other source of CO2).

I should also note that all this sort of goes away if there are any other weak acids (such as phosphoric) in the water. There should not be in potable water (a smidgeon of phospho perhaps) but because the industry cannot always assume that to be the case there are some procedures for estimating the various components of alkalinity which do not match the carbo only case exactly. These are commonly used and are, for example, why Ward Labs reports don't balance as well as they should. Use of these approximations is not enough to account for a factor of two which is clearly attributable to this bloke's incomplete understanding of what alkalinity is and how it is computed.
 

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