Too much liquid left in my mash tun?

Friends, after 6 months of extract brewing I am making the transition to AG! I have made a mash tun from a 10g Igloo cooler. I have made a false bottom from a piece of perforated stainless steel and put together some fittings, ball valve etc... I tested it tonight by filling it with a few gallons of water and then draining. After the tun had stopped draining, I found that it still had a half a gallon of water in it. After doing some research it seems that this type of false bottom usually abandons more liquid in the tun than some others. I read one example for estimating mash water volume, and it even used 0.5 gallons in the example equation (maybe they used 0.5 to make the example easy?):

http://www.brew365.com/technique_calculating_mash_water_volume.php

I can't help but feel like this is too much, and will kill my efficiency. I am hoping some of you who have a similar set-up will lend some advice.

YIB, JDub

j-dub said:

Friends, after 6 months of extract brewing I am making the transition to AG! I have made a mash tun from a 10g Igloo cooler. I have made a false bottom from a piece of perforated stainless steel and put together some fittings, ball valve etc... I tested it tonight by filling it with a few gallons of water and then draining. After the tun had stopped draining, I found that it still had a half a gallon of water in it. After doing some research it seems that this type of false bottom usually abandons more liquid in the tun than some others. I read one example for estimating mash water volume, and it even used 0.5 gallons in the example equation (maybe they used 0.5 to make the example easy?):

http://www.brew365.com/technique_calculating_mash_water_volume.php

I can't help but feel like this is too much, and will kill my efficiency. I am hoping some of you who have a similar set-up will lend some advice.

YIB, JDub

Click to expand...

I have a 13 gallon rectangular igloo mash tun with a bazooka screen and no false bottom and I leave approximately .25 gallons behind. If worse comes to worse, you can compensate for the extra liquid by upping your grain bill a bit. Costs more in the long run, but you can at least get your efficiency up.

Batch sparging or fly? If batch sparging, the easy solution is to tilt the cooler to drain the rest of the wort out. That's what I did when I used a 10 gal Igloo cooler MLT.

JuanMoore said:

Batch sparging or fly? If batch sparging, the easy solution is to tilt the cooler to drain the rest of the wort out. That's what I did when I used a 10 gal Igloo cooler MLT.

Click to expand...

+1

I tilt, but I don't go crazy. I entered into BeerSmith my deadspace and calculated my volumes to take into account that loss. I tilt until it becomes a trickle and move on to the sparge. I then sparge until I hit my preboil volume. Whats left should come out in the sparge.

If you are batch sparging, or better yet doing a double batch sparge, the runnings left in the tun are fairly low gravity and won't impact efficiency that greatly. Tilting the tun will also work...RDWHAHB

Did you have a piece of tubing hooked up to your ballvalve for your test? The reason I ask is when the level of the liquid drops, the tubing into the runnings works as a siphon and "pulls" the liquid out from the MLT.

Yooper said:

Did you have a piece of tubing hooked up to your ballvalve for your test? The reason I ask is when the level of the liquid drops, the tubing into the runnings works as a siphon and "pulls" the liquid out from the MLT.

Click to expand...

dip tube!

As said, tilt or install a p/u tube. I use a chest cooler and tilt. Virtually no wort is left.

Just for comparison, I also use a 10gallon Igloo cooler. I have a false bottom with a dip tube that gets down pretty low in the cooler.

I tested it the other day and it only left exactly 8ounces of liquid behind.

Yes, you need a diptube. But I was serious about needing tubing from the ballvalve to the fermenter. Try it! Do it without any tubing and then do it with the tubing. The tubing should end lower than where you start, like on the ground in a fermenter, and it will "pull" out the liquid like a siphon.

Yooper said:

Yes, you need a diptube. But I was serious about needing tubing from the ballvalve to the fermenter. Try it! Do it without any tubing and then do it with the tubing. The tubing should end lower than where you start, like on the ground in a fermenter, and it will "pull" out the liquid like a siphon.

Click to expand...

let me get this straight.

Regular Mash tun, with ball valve. Gravity only pushes so much wort out.

Regular Mash tun, with ball valve and tubing. Gravity gives up and tubing says "don't worry I got your back" and pulls out more of the wort.



So what difference does it make if the wort is left in there if you're just going to sparge anyway? Wouldn't you be getting that leftover bit out in the sparge?

funkapottomous said:

let me get this straight.

Regular Mash tun, with ball valve. Gravity only pushes so much wort out.

Regular Mash tun, with ball valve and tubing. Gravity gives up and tubing says "don't worry I got your back" and pulls out more of the wort.



So what difference does it make if the wort is left in there if you're just going to sparge anyway? Wouldn't you be getting that leftover bit out in the sparge?

Click to expand...

No, deadspace is deadspace.

Yooper said:

No, deadspace is deadspace.

Click to expand...

Okay, so the tubing just helps speed up arrival at dead space.

(if I'm understanding correctly)


((HBTing and taking notes for business law.))

funkapottomous said:

Okay, so the tubing just helps speed up arrival at dead space.

(if I'm understanding correctly)


((HBTing and taking notes for business law.))

Click to expand...

No.

What happens without some tubing is that anything under the false bottom will stay there- sometimes it's a LOT of wort, like in a brewkettle type MLT. We're talking like up to a gallon! But the tubing will help siphon out that sugar rich wort so that the loss to the deadspace might only be a quart or so.

Yooper said:

No.

What happens with some tubing is that anything under the false bottom will stay there- sometimes it's a LOT of wort, like in a brewkettle type MLT. We're talking like up to a gallon! But the tubing will help siphon out that sugar rich wort so that the loss to the deadspace might only be a quart or so.

Click to expand...

OOOOOOOOOH.

got it.

(and I can't even blame it on being drunk.)

funkapottomous said:

OOOOOOOOOH.

got it.

(and I can't even blame it on being drunk.)

Click to expand...

Well, then go have a beer for crying out loud! It's WAY past beer thirty!

Yooper said:

Yes, you need a diptube. But I was serious about needing tubing from the ballvalve to the fermenter. Try it! Do it without any tubing and then do it with the tubing. The tubing should end lower than where you start, like on the ground in a fermenter, and it will "pull" out the liquid like a siphon.

Click to expand...

+1 Siphon effect. I have 3 ft of high temp hose reaching the bottom of the kettle..

Yooper said:

Well, then go have a beer for crying out loud!

Click to expand...

j-dub said:

Friends, after 6 months of extract brewing I am making the transition to AG! I have made a mash tun from a 10g Igloo cooler. I have made a false bottom from a piece of perforated stainless steel and put together some fittings, ball valve etc... I tested it tonight by filling it with a few gallons of water and then draining. After the tun had stopped draining, I found that it still had a half a gallon of water in it. After doing some research it seems that this type of false bottom usually abandons more liquid in the tun than some others. I read one example for estimating mash water volume, and it even used 0.5 gallons in the example equation (maybe they used 0.5 to make the example easy?):

http://www.brew365.com/technique_calculating_mash_water_volume.php

I can't help but feel like this is too much, and will kill my efficiency. I am hoping some of you who have a similar set-up will lend some advice.

YIB, JDub

Click to expand...

I use a 10g Rubbermaid cooler with a FB, and have about 0.5g dead space in the MLT. I get 85% efficiency after the sparge, and am very happy with it.

-a.

Thanks everyone. To answer a couple of questions: Yes, I am planning to batch sparge initially. No I did not have a tube hooked up to the ball valve. Also, I am noticing that the connection to the false bottom is higher than the connection to the side of the cooler. Is this an issue as the fluid has to travel up and then out? I am also wondering what type of hose or tube is supposed to be underneath the false bottom? Can someone out there attach a picture of theirs? I have attached two pictures to this post: one is of the tun looking down and the other is the bottom of my false bottom. Does anyone see any issues? Is the dip tube you all speak of look similar? Should I be using different connections to go from the side of the cooler to the false bottom? Thanks, J-Dub.

ajf said:

I use a 10g Rubbermaid cooler with a FB, and have about 0.5g dead space in the MLT. I get 85% efficiency after the sparge, and am very happy with it.

-a.

Click to expand...

Do you compensate with any extra grain or are you able to make recipes from others and hit OG/FG targets without changing the grain bill?

j-dub said:

Do you compensate with any extra grain or are you able to make recipes from others and hit OG/FG targets without changing the grain bill?

Click to expand...

Most recipes are based on a lower efficiency than I achieve, so I would reduce the base grain rather than adding extra grain if I were using a recipe formulated by somebody else. That would allow me to hit the OG.
For a given OG, I almost always get a lower FG than most other people because I mash at lower temperatures than most and I make adequate yeast starters.
Normally, I don't believe in FG targets unless it is a brew that I have brewed before, and know what the FG should be based on my methods.

-a.

j-dub said:

Thanks everyone. To answer a couple of questions: Yes, I am planning to batch sparge initially. No I did not have a tube hooked up to the ball valve. Also, I am noticing that the connection to the false bottom is higher than the connection to the side of the cooler. Is this an issue as the fluid has to travel up and then out? I am also wondering what type of hose or tube is supposed to be underneath the false bottom? Can someone out there attach a picture of theirs? I have attached two pictures to this post: one is of the tun looking down and the other is the bottom of my false bottom. Does anyone see any issues? Is the dip tube you all speak of look similar? Should I be using different connections to go from the side of the cooler to the false bottom? Thanks, J-Dub.

Click to expand...

You don't need to put a hose under your false bottom. Trust me! Just make sure you have tubing on the outside, draining lower than your MLT. If you put the end of the tubing on the bottom of the receiving vessel, as it drains, it will maintain a siphon and "pull" the liquid out of the MLT.

Your system looks very much like mine!

It's important the tubing remains air-tight to maintain a syphon, so you may need to put some hose clamps on the tubing if it doesn't stay air-tight.

Really what is probably happening is that the end of that fitting is bottoming out on the bottom of the tun after all the weight is on it. Cut a few notches in the bottom.

You need a piece of tubing on the output to pull a siphon.

I know HSA is not a huge worry but I wouldn't just let it splash into my kettle anyways. I never measured my loss, but always use tubing from my mash tun to the keggle. I thought this was standard homebrew procedure. No?

Yooper said:

You don't need to put a hose under your false bottom. Trust me! Just make sure you have tubing on the outside, draining lower than your MLT. If you put the end of the tubing on the bottom of the receiving vessel, as it drains, it will maintain a siphon and "pull" the liquid out of the MLT.

Your system looks very much like mine!

Click to expand...

Thank you. I tried the tube from the ball valve. It didn't seem to have any affect, however now that I think of it I only tried it with a couple of gallons of water. Maybe I need more to create the pressure needed to maintain the siphon?

Bobby_M said:

Really what is probably happening is that the end of that fitting is bottoming out on the bottom of the tun after all the weight is on it. Cut a few notches in the bottom.

You need a piece of tubing on the output to pull a siphon.

Click to expand...

Thanks Bobby. I tried this with a 90 degree angle on the bottom side and still had the same affect. I have been testing with just a couple of gallons of water. Do you think I need to use more water in my test to create the siphon I need to pull more water from the tun?

Friends, I've been on the road all week and finally got back to the brewhouse on Saturday night. Spent an hour or so yesterday tweaking the set-up on my false bottom. I measured the liquid left over after another test and BINGO! Just 8 ounces left in the tun. Thanks for everyone's thoughts and suggestions.

Best, J-Dub

(For those who may have the same issue, and read this at a later date looking for help: I found the best fitting for the underneath of the false bottom to be a straight hose barb trimmed to set about 1/4 off the bottom of the tun. Also, try and keep the fitting on the top of the false bottom as low as possible so that it stays as even as possible with the spout on the outside of the tun. Although there is a ton of information out there regarding the connection above the false bottom, I was unable to find any about what the underneath should look like. Maybe this is obvious to some, it left me with a little trial and error on my hands. Hopefully this will save you some time.)