1st attempt at cider, not going very well!

Ok, so... I started my first attempt at making cider last week. I used 23L of 100% apple juice, with no preservatives from the grocery store. I then added 2lbs of brown sugar and one 11g pack of S-04 yeast. Fermentation began quickly and after 1 week I looked in and there is still a thin layer of krausen that won't go away. I decided I would check the gravity, and it's still only at 1.046 and my SG was 1.060. It's been 1 week and I figured it would have been done fermenting by now.

What do you guys think? Am I too impatient, or was this a failure

You're too impatient. With two lbs of sugar, this batch will take a while, even after active fermentation is done.

did you add any yeast nutrient?? without nutrient the yeast are gonna have a very hard time fermenting the apple juice as it is fairly low in nitrogen.......

ryane said:

did you add any yeast nutrient?? without nutrient the yeast are gonna have a very hard time fermenting the apple juice as it is fairly low in nitrogen.......

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No, what is yeast nutrient and is it too late to add it now?

its a nutrient to help ensure a healthy fermentation, for beer its not necessary as malt has all the needed nutrients, but for things like cider or mead its a good idea to add it

any lhbs will have it
http://www.google.com/products?q=wy...esult_group&ct=image&resnum=3&ved=0CC0QzAMwAg

ryane said:

its a nutrient to help ensure a healthy fermentation, for beer its not necessary as malt has all the needed nutrients, but for things like cider or mead its a good idea to add it

any lhbs will have it
http://www.google.com/products?q=wy...esult_group&ct=image&resnum=3&ved=0CC0QzAMwAg

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Is it too late to add it now?

Add it now but make sure you hydrate the nutrients first. If you just dump powdered nutrients into your fermenter, you'll get a geyser (ask me how I know).

Do you guys usually add nutrient to your cider? I've never done it before..

For light sparkling cider (like a draft-style) I do not use yeast nutrient.

Now I am really confused

Do I really need this yeast nutrient, or will my cider ferment on it's own?

Nutrient won't hurt and it may help.
What temp is your fermenter at?
Did you aerate the juice before or after pitching the yeast?

pimento said:

Nutrient won't hurt and it may help.
What temp is your fermenter at?
Did you aerate the juice before or after pitching the yeast?

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It's been at 73 degrees for the past week, probably kind of high, but within the specs on the yeast packet.

I only aerated before pitching the yeast, using a drill degasser. It began fermentation just like any of the beer I've previously made. I had a 3 or 4" thick krausen on top within 24 hours. Came back home a week later and had maybe a 1/2" thick slimy looking krausen on top with small air bubbles. I decided to check the gravity since any of the beer I've previously made, had reached FG by this point and the krausen had fallen.

Ciders take longer than beer. And meads take longer than ciders.
Usually ciders take around 2 weeks to reach FG, so don't panic yet.
I do use a staggered nutrient addition (SNA) for ciders, it drops around 5 days from primary, and reduces the off flavours. I also think stirring daily to degass and keep the yeast healthy and happy helps.

Kauai_Kahuna said:

I also think stirring daily to degass and keep the yeast healthy and happy helps.

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Do you have to worry about oxidation as you would with a beer?

I think he means to give the carboy a good shaking, not actually stir it up. Relax....the yeast work on their own schedule...not yours. I have had fermentations last longer than yours. It may look like it is finished but you will probably find out that the yeast are in there doing their job.

my cider is easy:

5g non-preserved apple juice
4 lbs cane (table) sugar
1 pkg montrachet yeast

ferment for a 2-3 months, done... done it many times, no problems.

your answer: you don't really need yeast nutrient. without it, it'll take longer, but it will still do it.

SNA is outlined in the mead section, I would highly recommend reading through the sticky. It can be applied to wine, cider, beer, etc in my experience. Or at least it will challenge you to rethink some things.

Basically your adding yeast nutrients at specific times, A certain amount at pitching, a certain amount 1 day after fermentation kicks off, and a certain amount at half way through based on your target FG.
It also includes stirring/degassing up to the halfway point.
CO2 stresses the yeast, and O2 is good for them up to a point. You want enough O2, and minimum C02 to keep them happy and healthy.

I don't worry about oxygenation until I'm passed the half way target to FG.
What convinced me was actually charting the fermentation times, and using SNA and not on spit batches. It works, and makes a significant difference.
Using SNA I can fully ferment a cider or mead in two weeks, clearing and conditioning still takes the same amount of time, but, well just read up on it, and if it interest you, try it.

2 lbs of brown sugar in 23L of juice isn't much -- that is almost 6 gallons of juice....

Likely you are stuck from nutrients....

If it is stuck from nutrients -- it might ferment out on it's own.. but it might take 3-4 years to get there.... (Like what happens with a true "Show Mead")

Here's how you can check it out....

Since you started out with 23L -- rack off 3L into a clean 4L wine bottle (Leave plenty of headspace for when it kicks over...) ... and add 1 tsp of nutrient to that... See what happens... If it kicks over and takes off -- you know you need nutrients.......

Try this and report back...

Thanks

John

Thanks for the info, I am going to be back home after leaving it for another week. I will check it out and see if there has been any progress! If not, I will have to look into something to get it going again.

So I just got home and checked the gravity, 1.010. Looks like everything is going well, I was just a little impatient!

Jimmy_B said:

So I just got home and checked the gravity, 1.010. Looks like everything is going well, I was just a little impatient!

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Congrats! Patience is to brewing what rebooting is to computers - it fixes the problem 90% of the time . . .