Witbier El Segundo Grado Witbier

The classic Belgian Witbier style is a light, somewhat tart, easy drinking wheat beer around 5% ABV which has a strong grapefruit and slightly peppery flavor from Indian coriander and Seville oranges. It should remain cloudy even when warm, and pour with a solid white 2" head. The aroma should be of grapefruit mixed with a rubbery, phenolic character unique to the Witbier yeast. (512) Wit from Austin, Texas is the best available commercial example in the US I have tried. St. Bernardus Witbier is a good imported commercial example.

For 72% Brewhouse Efficiency
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Grain bill:
4# Unmalted wheat
2# 6-row
2# Belgian Pils
1# Flaked oats
1/2# Corn sugar

Hop bill:
4AAU Saaz, 60 min
3AAU Cascade, 15 min

Spices:
1oz Coarsely crushed Indian coriander (from an ethnic market), 5 min
12oz Orange marmalade (Seville orange from France is best), 5 min
1oz Wheat flour, at flameout
3 Grapefruit zest, at flameout
2g Chamomile, at flameout (2 100% Chamomile tea bags)

Protein rest at 122*F for 30 minutes, step to 154*F saccharification rest for 45 minutes. Boil for 90 minutes, no kettle finings, avoid too vigorous of a boil -- you want some proteins to stay in the wort. After adding the spices for the last five minutes hold at a simmer only.

If you must use the dried peel, use bitter orange peel only and add it at flameout. Whatever you do don't boil bitter orange peel!


A picture is worth 1,000 words:

Looks tasty. We're gonna have to do a brew swap soon!

This beer got thumbs up from the "experts" at the Zealots. Kerry suggested I re-brew this and submit a bottle conditioned version for the Bluebonnet comp.

wheat flour at flameout? What does that do?

The wheat flour creates a permanent chill haze so the beer remains cloudy.

Bottled up the last of the keg, already crushed the grains to do a lighter version of this lil' guy for summer using two row and flaked wheat. The last bottles are going to the NHC comp, this is my best recipe to date by far and I think it has a good chance of placing.

okay, you've convinced me. This has made my to-brew list.

Ok, I'm a retard. You mentioned your drop down list on another thread, and I looked and looked until I finally found what you mean. I had no idea those were there! I might try this out for a future brew. Although I'm not sure the flour is necessary? Seems like it is supposed to hazy without having to add flour just to haze it up?

Homercidal said:

Ok, I'm a retard. You mentioned your drop down list on another thread, and I looked and looked until I finally found what you mean. I had no idea those were there! I might try this out for a future brew. Although I'm not sure the flour is necessary? Seems like it is supposed to hazy without having to add flour just to haze it up?

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Flour isn't necessary, it'll be hazy either way.

One thing I discovered, if you keg this one pull out the keg and invert it once a week. The character is all off once the yeast settle out.

BTW, according to Kevin at (512) who has collaborated with Pierre Celis himself on his Wit, the keys are:

- Good quality white raw wheat. Whole Foods is a good source.
- Good quality Indian coriander. He crushes his using a rolling pin on a baking tray. I use a mortar and pestle. It should smell like grapefruits and lemons once crushed. If it smells like tomato juice you have the wrong kind and danger lurks ahead! A light crush prevents getting tannins from the coriander.
- Gentle boil, just above a simmer. After I toss in the spices I just let it steep for 5 minutes (no boiling) before chilling with an IC. If you are running to a CFC no need to wait, just toss them in at flameout.
- Grapefruit and/or Seville oranges for the citrus. Sevilles are sometimes at Hispanic specialty markets, or you can do what I did and sub the Seville orange marmalade from France available at large megamarts.

Is there no cereal mash involved for initial cooking of the raw wheat?

PseudoChef said:

Is there no cereal mash involved for initial cooking of the raw wheat?

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You could do a cereal mash if you wanted to. I just did a nice long protein rest at 122*F instead.

Great thread here about the gentle boil, figured I would link to it here.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/witbier-pilsner-vigorous-boil-not-121444/

Finally brewed a slightly modified version of this last saturday. I am a batch sparger so I did two infusions to hit my temps, however my efficiency was a pretty weak 65%. I compensated with table sugar and it should turn out just fine. I'm not sure what the reason is for the low efficiency unless maybe my conversion wasn't complete.

I also realized just after chilling that I used a whirfloc tablet out of habit. Duh.

My efficiency is always about 10% lower than my 'normal' efficiency when I use this much wheat. I am not sure why so I just sucked it up and adjusted the efficiency lower for all my Wits in BeerSmith...

Also, by "slightly modified" I meant that I left out the cascade (personal pref) and grapefruit zest (feeling lazy? Out of season? I dunno) and used 20oz of marmalade instead. Also, I had the choice between smucker's regular marmalade (16oz jar) which was sweetened with HFCS, or the smucker's "simply fruit" marmalade (10oz jars) which used natural fruit syrup or some such instead, so I went for the simply fruit one. Not that I'm really the type who buys all natural and organic a lot, but I just don't know what kind of effect HFCS has on yeast/fermentability/beer and I thought it better to stick with what I knew would work.

I used my barley crusher to crush the coriander and I was very pleased with that method. Initially I tried setting the gap closer but the seeds actually weren't feeding in. The normal grain setting worked great; the aroma was heavenly.

Coastarine said:

I used my barley crusher to crush the coriander and I was very pleased with that method. Initially I tried setting the gap closer but the seeds actually weren't feeding in. The normal grain setting worked great; the aroma was heavenly.

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Never thought about crushing it that way... good idea!

How much does the grapefruit flavor come through? How about the other spice flavors? I've done a few wits but the spice flavors are really faint, and I want there to be a little more presence.

DirkDiggler said:

How much does the grapefruit flavor come through? How about the other spice flavors? I've done a few wits but the spice flavors are really faint, and I want there to be a little more presence.

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The citrus flavor and spice is fairly aggressive, but it isn't cloying.

Saccharomyces said:

The citrus flavor and spice is fairly aggressive, but it isn't cloying.

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Sounds perfect to me. I'll be brewing this once I get a few more bottles cleared.

What do you mean by "Unmalted wheat" the Raw Ungelatinized wheat or the pre-gelatinized?

I brewed an extract derivative of this beer and it is one of the best I've ever had!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/el-segundo-grado-witbier-186950/

This beer is SO refreshing. It is like Smuttynose Star Island Single with a hint of citrus, not unlike Southern Tier Hop Sun.

This beer ROCKS. It is a great summer beer. I am brewing another batch tonight.

Any suggestions as to optimum fermentation temperature? In the gentle simmer thread your wrote that 512 pitches at 65F and lets it free rise. What kind of qualities will you find if you do the same thing at home vs. keeping temperature at say 65-68F? I also have read that due to the pressure inside commercial fermenters, it is possible to use higher temperatures without the expected off-flavors.

orangehero said:

Any suggestions as to optimum fermentation temperature? In the gentle simmer thread your wrote that 512 pitches at 65F and lets it free rise. What kind of qualities will you find if you do the same thing at home vs. keeping temperature at say 65-68F? I also have read that due to the pressure inside commercial fermenters, it is possible to use higher temperatures without the expected off-flavors.

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I generally pitch at 65*F, hold at 68*F for 24 hours, and then let it get up as warm as it will at room temp (76-77*F maybe). As long as the temperature is kept controlled during the lag phase and the first 24 hours or so of fermentation, you will be fine.

I've read a lot of stories of the WLP400 yeast putting off sulfur (bad smells) during fermentation when fermented too cool toward the end of fermentation... like the Trappist High Gravity strain, this yeast seems to actually perform much better when it is allowed to warm up, the key is to not let it get too warm before the exponential growth phase is mostly complete.

I was looking to do a single infusion mash on this.

If I remember correctly I can't use the unmalted wheat?


Also what temp would you recommend? 154 or lower?

Can you recommend an approximate weight for the fresh citrus zest (without adding marmalade)?

Do you find the gentle simmer to be important and have you ever had issues with it? I think it would be easier to do a regular boil since the boil-off rate is known along with being able to use more sparge water for some extra efficiency points.

You indicate 72% brewhouse efficiency, but what is your extraction efficiency?

Thanks for sharing your insights!

Well i guess this post partially answers my question

http://goo.gl/nHpzF

Sounds like 150

Also I am guessing Flaked Wheat appears to be the substitute

MeanGreen said:

I was looking to do a single infusion mash on this.

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As long as you are using flaked wheat, you can get away with this, but keep in mind your efficiency will be about 10% lower than usual. I would still mash at 154*F.

orangehero said:

Can you recommend an approximate weight for the fresh citrus zest (without adding marmalade)?

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Haven't tried this, but I would use the zest of about a half-dozen oranges if you go this route.

Do you find the gentle simmer to be important and have you ever had issues with it? I think it would be easier to do a regular boil since the boil-off rate is known along with being able to use more sparge water for some extra efficiency points.

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Well the key is to not boil it too hard, and to avoid the use of any kettle finings (eg. whirfloc, irish moss) since you want to keep some protein around.

You indicate 72% brewhouse efficiency, but what is your extraction efficiency?

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In my system.. about 77%. My normal efficiency is 5-7% over that, wheat seems to gum things up.

When do you add the sugar in the boil or does it matter?

Sacch,

Do you usually do an iodine test on your mash? Even after 90 minutes at 154F I was getting a positive, but I wonder if this is typical for a mash with such a high proportion of unmalted wheat.

sacch, I just brewed a witbier 11 days ago that was very similar to your recipe (6/12). Ive fermented at around 72 and the airlock has stopped moving. I was wondering why u did a 3 week primary. I know that witbiers are supposed to drunk fresh, just curious what your reasoning behind that was? Thanks.

I like your idea about adding the flour for permanent haze. I am thinking about adding the flour at kegging / bottling for this effect (sterilized boiling water, etc. etc.) Does anyone foresee any problems here?

Thanks.

orangehero said:

Do you usually do an iodine test on your mash?

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Nope.

wildbeers said:

I was wondering why u did a 3 week primary. I know that witbiers are supposed to drunk fresh, just curious what your reasoning behind that was? Thanks.

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Went straight to keg, force carbed and put on tap. I suppose you could probably put this on at around two weeks if you wanted but I wasn't in a hurry.

merkinman said:

Does anyone foresee any problems here?

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The flour has lacto, and if you try to add it to boiling water you will get a sticky mess due to the gluten so I am not sure it's a good idea.

Used this as my first all-grain recipe. I used 1lb of corn sugar and ended up with a 1.051 SG. It's the first time I've put fruit into the boil, and it smelled pretty bad for the first day or so. Great fermentation and it looks like apple cider in the fermenter, so I think that I got the colors spot on.

Thanks!

Would that be the zest of 3 grapefruits or 3 grams of zest for this recipe?

Sounds like a great recipe. I got the seville marmalade and indian coriander(what a totally different smell from traditional coriander!) but I'm not sure of exactly when you put the corn sugar and wheat flour in? I plan to keg,not bottle. Thanks.

Waiting on my batch to finish fermenting. Going on about 12 days using WLP400. Will probably transfer to secondary in the next day or two. Smells great coming through the airlock. Color was a bit darker than anticipated going into primary, but the yeast have done their job and it has lightened up a lot. Looking forward to a taste at bottling.


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Mine came out hazy like yours but a little too bitter (but I added a little freshly ground ginger) but I have to say this got BETTER as the keg aged! When I make this again I'll skip the ginger and use a seville orange,lemon and grapefruit marmalade I found and let this keg age for at least a month. Thanks for the recipe, I'll definitely brew this again but now have a Weihenstephaner clone in the fermenter.

I got golds in two different competitions with this beer. Great recipe!