Could use help with persistent infection

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gbuttar

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I'm a new brewer, having trouble with a persistent infection. Here's a quick summary:

I have brewed 5 to date, my first turned out fine (not super, but not ruined). Since, then, I have a bug (from what I've read seems like lacto) in all of my beers. Here are the symptoms:

-3 of them developed a thin translucent to whitish skin on the surface well after fermentation completed (all achieved FG with no changes) which breaks into pieces when disturbed
-the first three of them have tasted thin and very sour (not entirely undrinkable, but a very distinct sour taste that overwhelms all other flavors). My current beer (bottling today) still tastes fine (was only in primary, no secondary, dry hopped after three weeks, cold crashed for two days, shortly after cold crash the film became evident and now is very obvious - breaks apart & clings to wall of carboy when I tilt the fermenter).

What I've done so far (for this latest brew bottling today)
-ALL plastics have been replaced (where all new from my LHBS for this last brew)
-nuked my glass carboy (two soaks in hot water & oxyclean - 1 full soop, a 24 hr soak in fairly concentrated bleach - about 1 cup/gallon) followed by a second soak with fresh bleach, rinsed well, used star san with distilled water for final sanitation before use. I got pH strips to check the star san, strip appears to indicate 2.8 pH
-boiled (completely submerged) my starter flask in my brew pot for 20 mins
-boiled (completely submerged) all my stainless steel equipment

My brew process (in excruciatingly great detail):
-I clean/disinfect my brewing area (kitchen) prior to doing anything brew-related
-For my starter, I boiled my DME in a clean pot for 15 min. I filled my recently boiled flask with star san with the stir bar inside. At end of boil, I dumped the star san from the flask, placed it in a large pot with room temp water in it. I then poured the still boiling-hot starter wort into the flask, covered with sanitized foil, poked a thermometer through (boiled and sanitized), and then add ice to the water in the pot. When at 70 F, I took my yeast (wyeast smack pack) which was smacked 3 hours prior, and was soaking in star san, tore it open with sterile gloves, and poured it into the flask. I put fresh sanitized foil on top, and then place it on my stir plate (located in a clean chest freezer which I went over with bleach before this last brew).
-I used a home-made immersion chiller which I pre-boiled, and then placed into the brew pot for the last 15 mins of the boil. I used hop bags for my hops. I know this isn't best practice flavor wise, but I kept the pot boiling for an extra 5 minutes after removing the hops bags. I also sprayed the top of my IC with star san (in case the steam didn't properly sanitize)
-While cooling, I left my pot lid off and stirred the wort around the chiller. The spoon I used was the same one I used during the boil. I kept a separate pot of boiling water going on the stove, and before using the spoon for stirring, I scrubbed it clean, boiled for a few minutes, and then stuck in a bucket of star san. Thermometer I used was also boiled/sanitized before putting it in. I also (as an extra precaution) got a sterile mask, sleeves and gloves from my girlfriend (she works in a pharmaceutical manufacturing facility). I put these on right after taking the pot off the stove. It took about 15-20 minutes to cool the wort. I then dumped the star san rinse out of my glass carboy (recently bleach bombed), put in a stainless steel funnel (recently boiled and then placed directly into star san solution) and poured the cooled wort into the funnel.
-I put sanitized foil over the top of the carboy, and then shook it to aerate.
-I then poured in top off water. This was not boiled, but it was store bought (deer park distilled water), and I sprayed the tops of the jugs with star san before pouring
-I swirled this all together, and then took my OG reading with a stainless steel sampler (again, recently boiled and then placed in a star-san bucket until use)
-I pitched the starter directly into the fermenter (no crash cooling, dumped it all in).
-I then put on a new carboy cap/three piece airlock, and then filled the airlock with vodka. The entire thing was assembled wet submerged in star san.

Fermentation began with a few hours, very vigorous.

During fermentation this time, I did start to get blow-off through the airlock. I quickly boiled some silicone tubing, and then dunked it in star san, and attached to the carboy cap (all done while still wet/submerged again). The tubing ran into a 1 gallon jug filled with star san solution. While making the transfer, I covered the carboy with sanitized foil. After about 10 days, I put the three piece back on using the same basic system.

My FG sample was taken with the stainless steel baster (not boiled again, but submerged in star san before use). The sample was not returned to the carboy.

I dry hopped after three weeks. I weighed the frozen pellets in a sanitized bowl, and added to the carboy with a sanitized spoon (no bag). These were from a bulk bin at my LHBS, so it's possible (likely in fact) that they were touched by unsanitized hands/scoops etc. previously.

I appear to be getting the same bug in each one (tastes/looks exactly the same), although my carboy (which was bleach bombed) and my stainless spoon (boiled) where the only pieces of equipment that are the same. I initially suspected my apartment, but I moved between brews 2 & 3, so having excessive airborne bacteria in both seems to be a stretch.

Holy novella Batman! I apologize for the lengthy post, but I wanted to be thorough, because gaps in my general sanitation methods seem to be the most obvious answer. I would greatly appreciate any advice regarding anything I may have missed/could do better. My current suspects (although all seem unlikely):

1) Airborne (I moved between brews so doesn't seem likely, I do have a central air system which I've heard can circulate bacteria). Should I not be aerating by shaking the carboy? Should I siphon instead of pour from kettle to carboy?

2) Glass carboy (the only piece of equipment I have not replaced, could anything survive bleaching? Should I try sterilizing in the oven?)

3) Top off water (I imagine deer park sanitation practices must be better than mine, so I can't really see this being the cause, and don't see the benefit of boiling it, as I would more likely risk contaminating it myself). Any better systems other than full boil/smaller batch?

All other suspects would have to be all isolated instances, which, given the fact that visible infections are supposed to be quite rare, seems unlikely (ex. one time took longer to cool, the dry hops in this most recent batch etc.)

Again, any advice/ideas would be greatly appreciated. I'm kinda grasping at straws here.
 
I had several batches infected on me because of my stir bar. The teflon coating got cracked somehow and the infection inside came out in my starters. The crack was barely visible but the rust coming out of it gave it away.
 
Just finished reading your post. Top up water could be the culprit. It is unlikely, but it is possible. If you don't want to screw with boiling it then you could try RO water from the store as top up water next time.
 
I get a crazy image of you with all the sterile gear...you go about 30 times more clean/cautiously than me and I have not yet had an infected batch...I will say I use dry yeast so not doing starters. All I can think is start changing one thing at a time to see where its coming from and do 1gal batches so not ruining so much beer...I would first start simply by doing a batch with dry yeast, no starter. If that comes out fine, then u know its something w/ starter. I would also keep from bulk hops from LHBS...go with the 1oz packaged, at least w/ dry hopping (wouldn't matter w/ boil...)...
 
Wow. Simply wow.

Hang in there, brother. I have read your post close to 3 times and I am at a loss. Your process is a good one. You have clearly put a lot of effort into cleanliness-- sometimes going too far in my opinion but I totally understand!

I am unfamiliar with dry-hopping. After quickly reading up (man, I really want to help you) I think your most likely culprit could be the hops. Check out this article on the topic. Under the pros and cons section, the author alludes to the possibility of bacteria being present due to the lack of them being boiled.

Second, your top-off water. It is the only other variable. I recently watched a show that explained definitions used in store-bought bottled water. For example, in order for a water to be called "spring water," is has to come from an underground source. Not bottled at the source, just that the source was down stream from the spring. Basically, it could come from a natural spring, run right through a port-a-potty, and still be legally "spring water." I am paraphrasing, of course. My municipal water (near Omaha, Nebraska) has a disclaimer that it could be harmful to small pets. I don't know, unlikely I guess but knowledge is power.

You have got to be extremely frustrated- I feel your pain. If I were you, I would go get a 6-pack of good beer from the store and take a break. Relax. Your practices are sound and you are very clean- no one will question that!

When you try again, I would skip the dry hoping or use hops that come in one of those nitrogen-purged, oxygen-safe packets. Just to be safe, boil your top-off water.

Probably not the most helpful reply but at a minimum know that I feel for you, bro. There is a ton of knowledge here on this forum and I am sure help is on the way!

Hang in there and let us know if that works for you when you try again.

-Ritalin
 
You certainly have gone through a lot trying to isolate the problem.

The only major item that you don't have control of is the hops. If the hops are kept in an open bin, and they are grinding grain in the same building, I would suspect infected hops.

Try purchasing pellet hops in sealed foil packets for your next brew.
 
You're really doing too much sanitation. I know you're trying to eliminate any source, but it makes it also very hard. Put you efforts where they count:
Anything that gets boiled does not need to be sanitized. Everything the cooled wort and beer touches does, and do it well.

Nothing could have possibly dropped into your cooling or cooled wort? Like drips or dust from a stove hood? Turn them off. When handling yeast or open fermentors, turn the air off.

I dry hopped after three weeks....These were from a bulk bin at my LHBS, so it's possible (likely in fact) that they were touched by unsanitized hands/scoops etc. previously.

There may have been lacto in those hops or some other bug. Grain is loaded with them and milling puts dust in the air....

Try not to handle grain, like measuring or weighting, anywhere around (fermenting) beer or cooled wort for the same reasons.

You should brew a nice ale, in your usual way, but use a packet of rehydrated dry yeast to eliminate potential infections coming from starters. Don't dry hop, and if you do, use hops from sealed pre-packaged bags.
You could do a smaller batch, like 2.5 gallons, but that leaves a lot of airspace in your fermentor. No need to use secondaries, unless you need very long conditioning/aging times or add fruits or other bulky adjuncts.

Hope you solve the problem.
 
Hi,

I think you have a wonderfully anal cleaning regiment. I am agreeing with everyone else. My one thought about your central a/c is: is it running when you are doing your brewery work. Also the smack packs don't really need to be added to a starter. If you taste your beer at every step in the process, that will help uncover where things are going wrong. Ie if it tastes good going from primary to secondary you know your good there. Secondary to bottles/kegs etc. then you can rule out a ton of possibilities. I would stop using the spring water for starters. God and the company only know what is in there. Also make sure there is absolutely NO residual bleach in your carboys or another equipment before racking your beer into it. I wouldn't worry about pouring the still hot wort into your fermenter that will help airate the wort which is good for the yeast. That should be the last time you do it in the process. Rack into everything else using tubing all the way down to the bottom of the fermenter or bottling bucket. You don't want any more air at this point. It could lead to contamination. I hope this helps. Good luck

Cheers
Kev
 
Hi,

I think you have a wonderfully anal cleaning regiment. I am agreeing with everyone else. My one thought about your central a/c is: is it running when you are doing your brewery work. Also the smack packs don't really need to be added to a starter. If you taste your beer at every step in the process, that will help uncover where things are going wrong. Ie if it tastes good going from primary to secondary you know your good there. Secondary to bottles/kegs etc. then you can rule out a ton of possibilities. I would stop using the spring water for starters. God and the company only know what is in there. Also make sure there is absolutely NO residual bleach in your carboys or another equipment before racking your beer into it. I wouldn't worry about pouring the still hot wort into your fermenter that will help airate the wort which is good for the yeast. That should be the last time you do it in the process. Rack into everything else using tubing all the way down to the bottom of the fermenter or bottling bucket. You don't want any more air at this point. It could lead to contamination. I hope this helps. Good luck

Cheers
Kev

Another vote on stopping to use "Spring Water" directly from the jug. Top up with boiled and cooled water that's been kept sanitary, to eliminate that as a contamination source.

Don't fill your carboy with hot wort (or water). Thermal stress may become too much and crack it. Luke warm is fine, but then it takes a long time to cool down unless you add ice water for top up. Sanitary water that is, of course.

And although the jury seems to be out again on hot side aeration, I would not splash hot wort, for all security. But aeration/oxygenation of cooled wort is good for your yeast. Again in "sanitary" fashion.
 
I was hoping to find a definitive answer because I too has 3 infected batches after 6 good batches. i guess I will replace the buckets and tubing. Swapping buckets get expensive. I might go to glass or stainless
 
Top up with tap water . it is clean unless your pipes have some kind of leak letting in dirt . No boiling necessary but it does not hurt . Back off on all that sanitizing . maybe you are leaving bleach or something on your equipment and it just looks like some kind of infection . this is not surgery and all the cleaning in the world is not going to stop the most common bacteria in your house .
I also would suspect the hops since they are out in the open but then again they are being put in alcohol or boiled so maybe not .
do you dry hop everything ? If so try a batch with no dry hop . the hops boiled will not be a problem no matter if they are contaminated or not .
 
I've never heard of a "bulk bin" at the homebrew store. That's the first thing I'd change, as hops should be vacuum packed and kept frozen (or at least in the fridge). I'd definitely never buy hops there, and only buy hops appropriately packaged.

One other thing that comes to mind is that you said you dryhopped after three weeks. I assume the beer was in a bucket, and perhaps it had lots of headspace? Maybe that is a source of contamination.

If you want to use a bucket for fermentation (I do), maybe try packaging the beer at 2 weeks old instead of such a long time in a bucket with huge headspace.
 
I know your frustration all too well but from what I have read contaminations this persistent are rare. I have dealt with my contamination problems in several ways. First I always keep head space to a minimum, and I do not even consider a secondary unless I'm filling a carboy to the neck or I'm dealing with at least 6%abv after primary. If I dry hop I don't bag it but will settle out lose hops in a third carboy. I also don't secondary beers with a high fg. If I do see lacto creeping over I will cold crash. Some lacto infections have added off flavors and some have been negligible. I've sterilized and trashed equipment with similar fury and still found infections sneaking up but by following those rules they are few and far between now. Good luck and maybe let one or 2 become sour projects

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Thanks for all the quick replies,

To cover a few of the concerns brought up:

Regarding timeline: in almost all brews, it tasted great right up until bottling time. I started noticing the film a day or two before my planned bottling day typically, and then could taste it either in samples right before or on bottling day. After bottling, the sourness/thinness and general absence of "beer" taste got progressively worse. If the hops were the cause, could they really cause a pellicle/off flavors after just 5 days? Reading how long lambics typically take to develop a pellicle, I figured the contamination must have been early in the process.

-I'm using a glass carboy (6 gal?) as a primary, and no secondary. There was little headspace in the fermenter (was filled up to where the main body curves inwards)
-I also thought of the dry hops first, but this is the first time I've tried dry hopping. The other three had no additives post boil. It is possible all three had separate sources, but the visible signs/tastes seemed too similar to be a coincidental string of bad luck. I will either not dry hop or buy packaged/sealed hops as suggested for dry hopping
-I will try boiling the top off water (the one batch I had that turned out well I used pre-boiled tap water). I did however first look up water report for deer park distilled (which I have been using for top off) - http://www.nestle-watersna.com/asset-library/documents/dp_eng.pdf - sanitation includes distilation, micro-filtration, UV light & ozone filtration. Could be happening in shipping/warehouse storage I suppose. I'm willing to try anything

Do you guys think there is any point in switching fermenters or heat treating the glass carboy (ex. in oven)? I'm assuming a bleach soak should kill anything the glass could be hiding, although is it possible there are scratches etc. that I cannot see harboring the bacteria?

Another thought I had was cooling/pitching outside to eliminate apartment bugs, but I'm assuming that this would introduce a whole new risk factor.


Based on suggestions, I'll try this:

1) nuke my carboy again, and re-use this (possibly after sterilizing in the oven), as it is likely not the culprit. I haven't read anywhere of carboys that carried infections bleach couldn't kill
2) replace plastics again - (frustration combined with drinking near a computer & a credit card caused me to buy stainless equipment wherever possible anyway, so it's just a few items)
3) Use packaged/sealed hops for dry hopping, otherwise use the same method
4) Use dry yeast to eliminate contamination of starter (although I thought that my starter steps were the most sanitary/risk free part of the process, as cooled wort was practically never exposed to anything, including open air).
5) Boil my store bought distilled top-off water as an extra precaution. Should I chill it as I would my wort? or just let it cool and then pour it into my fermenter?

Thanks again for all the help. If this doesn't work perhaps I'll get really into coffee instead.
 
BTW

I didn't take any pictures, but I found these online. What I'm having looks very similar (this combined with sour taste/absence of "beer" taste getting worse is what convinces me it's an infection)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9gXkW1Mfsf4/T1436kX_mBI/AAAAAAAAAU8/FkTJ2u_mb-4/s1600/100_3325.JPG

This photo shows the "slim on the carboy wall" symptom I've seen in all bad batches

http://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/attachments/f39/73644d1346202549-lacto-infection-infection.jpg

I'm fairly convinced through what I've read that I have something like a lacto infection, although if these symptoms could be something else, I'd love to hear what it could be.

Thanks,
 
... Regarding timeline: in almost all brews, it tasted great right up until bottling time. I started noticing the film a day or two before my planned bottling day typically, and then could taste it either in samples right before or on bottling day....

It takes a few days for lacto to become apparent after infection.

If everything progresses fine up till that day, what did you do right before things changed? Taking samples perhaps?

How do you take samples from your carboy? Turkey baster? Have you checked the rubber bulb? I hate the thought of using those since most bulbs are hard to clean, let stand sanitize. I use a plastic (acrylic?) wine thief. It's a little awkward because it's so long but easy to clean and sanitize.

Before you remove the airlock do you spray Starsan liberally to clean around the airlock and stopper, and the neck of the carboy?
 
don't put your carboy in the oven! you didn't have to throw out your plastic bucket either. infections can be cleaned off with the regular cleaners and sanitizers available at the homebrew store. someone else pointed out that they got an infection AFTER they replaced their gear so replacing gear won't always solve the problem.
 
Hi,

When you clean your carboy, do you use a brush on it to scrub the film off? I know it sounds like a stupid question, but it could make all the difference. That film that you describe may not rinse out even soaking in bleach/water solution. You got to get that crap off the sides. The same thing with your racking cane and tubing. And anything else that you may use.
I taste my beers every time I handle them ( out of kettle, into secondary, into bottles or kegs). I don't however open the fermenter up just to take a sample, because I don't want to run the risk of infection.
More Beer, Northern Brewer sell some nice brushes pretty cheap to scrub the inside of all your equipment. Could be as simple as that. Just one more thought.

Cheers
Kev
 
alright, a few things.

there's a difference between sterilization and sanitation. a 20 minute boil will sanitize but will not sterilize your gear. from what i've gathered their's a process to sterilize by boiling and it requires at least 3 successive boils over time. there's a name for the process.

you need to sterilze everything. the easiest way is bleach. go old school and bleach all your stuff. pull your fermenters out and mix up a bleach concentration and soak all the stuff you can. run the mixture through your mash tun, kettle, etc. everything. my LHBS guy calls this shocking. get the clorox spray cleaners and wipe everything. break down everything you can etc etc. check out your fermentation area. use a sponge mop on the walls and ceiling/overhanging parts. check your ball valves for corrosion and debris. replace your carboys if you haven't already.

thoroughly rinse everything and then clean it with soap and water or vinegar just to make sure the bleach is gone.

this is gonna suck but it's the the only thing left short of iodine. it may be overkill too but i wouldn't enjoy dumping money into infected brews. if i were in your spot i'd bleach everything i safely could. just go to town.

i'm a bit germophobic so i tend not to have issues with this stuff.
 
alright, a few things.

there's a difference between sterilization and sanitation. a 20 minute boil will sanitize but will not sterilize your gear. from what i've gathered their's a process to sterilize by boiling and it requires at least 3 successive boils over time. there's a name for the process.

you need to sterilze everything. the easiest way is bleach. go old school and bleach all your stuff. pull your fermenters out and mix up a bleach concentration and soak all the stuff you can. run the mixture through your mash tun, kettle, etc. everything. my LHBS guy calls this shocking. get the clorox spray cleaners and wipe everything. break down everything you can etc etc. check out your fermentation area. use a sponge mop on the walls and ceiling/overhanging parts. check your ball valves for corrosion and debris. replace your carboys if you haven't already.

thoroughly rinse everything and then clean it with soap and water or vinegar just to make sure the bleach is gone.

this is gonna suck but it's the the only thing left short of iodine. it may be overkill too but i wouldn't enjoy dumping money into infected brews. if i were in your spot i'd bleach everything i safely could. just go to town.

i'm a bit germophobic so i tend not to have issues with this stuff.

while bleach is an effective sanitizer there are better sanitizers for use in a brewhouse that you don't have to rinse or "be sure is gone". i have used bleach to combat a persistent infection (early on in my brewing) but i've turned away from bleach since the brewery specific products work just as well and are no rinse.
 
Just a thought, but maybe the brushes/sponges/cloths, etc, that you're using to assist you in all this cleaning is harboring the infection.
 
Thanks again for the input:

For sampling: I only sample initially and once after fermentation to confirm FG and that fermentation is complete. I was using a wine thief before, but switched to stainless steel baster for this last brew (so that I could boil & sanitize to eliminate as a source). I spritz the hell out of my carboy cap & re-seal wet when I take it off.

I did bleach my carboy already, and then rinse with vinegar/water, and then normal star-san sanitation before use. I boiled stainless components, and used all new plastics.

I have a theory which may explain my issue: after reviewing my notes, I believe I used the same carboy cap for the first three bad brews. Even though it was sanitized thoroughly, is it possible that this carried the infection? For the latest brew, I'm thinking it was the hops now, as it looked/tasted great right up until dry hopping. It was 5 days after dry hopping that I noticed the film return. I believe I am pretty thorough & over the top with my sanitation in general, but these two combined may explain my issue.


On a side note, I bottled the last brew anyway, and even though it's still green, it tastes great right now (two hearted clone, it's a little heavier than two hearted IPA, tastes more like an imperial, but still good). I can taste a hint of the sourness, but it's not terrible yet. I plan on drinking it quickly as I can (without losing my job), as I understand lacto gets progressively worse quickly.

Thanks again for the help, I'll post how my next one comes out.
 
I have noticed that using a muslin bag when dry hopping almost guarantees i will get a lacto infection. Besides not doing a secondary, I also have a small fleet of cony kegs that I have ready to take any infected brews. First sign of an infection and I rack it keg and hit it with gas and leave it in a cold area or the kegerator. This seems to prevent off flavors developing and I suspect that lacto being an aerobic bacteria not liking CO2 much is the reason. Rudimentary microbiology knowledge might be unfounded but I gave up stressing about sanitizing everything to death quite a while ago. kegging and previously mentioned habits have reduced the lacto menace in my brews. :)
 
I'm sorry about your infections.

I had a string of them last year, got super frustrated and quit brewing for a while. That wasn't the solution. I went back and looked into every little detail of my process and found a few things that I thought could cause infection, and I eliminated them. Only time well tell if it worked, but so far it seems that way.

Don't give up, you will beat this, your process is sound.
 
Use safale 04 for the next few brews - make a starter with 100 ml cooled boiled water, after 30 mins add 1 level ts of brewing sugar, keep covered with cling film, should have 4 inch rocky head within an hour. If you still have this same problem, move all your equipment to a friends house and do a brew there. If that is ok it proves there is a rotting dead body under your floorboards....
 
bobtheUKbrewer2 said:
Use safale 04 for the next few brews - make a starter with 100 ml cooled boiled water, after 30 mins add 1 level ts of brewing sugar, keep covered with cling film, should have 4 inch rocky head within an hour. If you still have this same problem, move all your equipment to a friends house and do a brew there. If that is ok it proves there is a rotting dead body under your floorboards....

Why s-04?
 
Hello, I did not read the entire OP, nor did I read the entire thread.

I have had a very persistent infection however, and the only way I was able to eliminate it was using Hydrogen Peroxide @ a 50/50 mix with water submerging everything that comes in contact with the wort or beer for 72 hrs.

I will also state that nothing else and I mean nothing else worked on the infection I was dealing with, Washing then soak in StarSan then soak in a 50/50 Bleach Bombs then Wash again then soak in StarSan again did nothing, nothing else worked period.

Soaking in Hydrogen Peroxide for 72 hrs Worked.

Cheers :mug:
 
Hello, I did not read the entire OP, nor did I read the entire thread.

I have had a very persistent infection however, and the only way I was able to eliminate it was using Hydrogen Peroxide @ a 50/50 mix with water submerging everything that comes in contact with the wort or beer for 72 hrs.

I will also state that nothing else and I mean nothing else worked on the infection I was dealing with, Washing then soak in StarSan then soak in a 50/50 Bleach Bombs then Wash again then soak in StarSan again did nothing, nothing else worked period.

Soaking in Hydrogen Peroxide for 72 hrs Worked.

Cheers :mug:

i've seen where you claimed to have found a super bug immune to star san in another thread. if i were you i would contact five star about this, i'm sure they would be very interested.
 
I recon it is quite possible a bug could mutate to be immune to Star San . Just as they do antibiotics. How ever I am not sure any bug could survive a 50/50 bleach soaking .
 
I recon it is quite possible a bug could mutate to be immune to Star San . Just as they do antibiotics. How ever I am not sure any bug could survive a 50/50 bleach soaking .

i doubt this is true, the super bug discovered by a homebrewer.
 
What super bug are referring to ?

So you really think a bug can survive a bleach soaking ? But then I said I am not sure . Perhaps 50/50 is not strong enough to kill off some types of bugs .
One more thing on bleach . I know this from using it on myself to wash poison ivy oils off . all bleach is not created equal by far . Clorox . use it . that cheap stuff in the dollar store is already diluted . Not only will it probably not kill anything much , you can pour it full strength on your poison ivy rash after scratching it raw and it will only sting a tiny bit .
maybe that was the problem
 
What super bug are referring to ?

So you really think a bug can survive a bleach soaking ? But then I said I am not sure . Perhaps 50/50 is not strong enough to kill off some types of bugs .
One more thing on bleach . I know this from using it on myself to wash poison ivy oils off . all bleach is not created equal by far . Clorox . use it . that cheap stuff in the dollar store is already diluted . Not only will it probably not kill anything much , you can pour it full strength on your poison ivy rash after scratching it raw and it will only sting a tiny bit .
maybe that was the problem

wow. just....wow.
 
Ok Guys,

I really don't care if anyone believes me or not, what we went through is not BS.

I just wanted to give others an option to help them be able to reuse there plastics instead of the standard throw everything away and start over (like I was told to do).

Do some research on using different sanitizers like we did, the key word here is sanitizers, the only way to kill any bug for sure, is to sterilize it.

Hydrogen Peroxide worked when nothing else would, Believe it or Not, thats your call, but its really not cool to make it sound like Im making this up, we went through months of research and months of testing infected plastics in mini batches of beer to figure out how to kill this bug.

I really hope this information helps people that are only getting the standard answers, StarSan, Bleach, or Throw everything out.

Cheers :mug:
 
...Hydrogen Peroxide worked when nothing else would, Believe it or Not, thats your call, but its really not cool to make it sound like Im making this up, we went through months of research and months of testing infected plastics in mini batches of beer to figure out how to kill this bug.

I really hope this information helps people that are only getting the standard answers, StarSan, Bleach, or Throw everything out.

Cheers :mug:

Where did you buy hydrogen peroxide in such large quantity? 5 gallons of 50/50 is not a measly amount. You didn't go your local CVS and raided a shelf's worth, did you?

I think the pros use some sort of acid.
 
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