Trying this at home part 1

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Desert_Sky

Since 1998
Joined
Mar 8, 2006
Messages
4,250
Reaction score
207
Location
Boulder
First off..BrewPastor I just wanted to say thank you for your write up. It was a great bit of reading that I read over and over.


Ok, as I mentioned in BrewPastors thread, my family and I are going to do this. We are heading out in October to look at a couple acres between 2 Ski resorts close by. The plan as of now is something small. Maybe a 10bbl brewpub, with a decent kitchen, and rather large patio with a view. We thought about doing a brewpub here locally, but I think we are all ready for a change of scenery.

Anyways, being that Im brewing so much lately, its been decided that Im the one to go to school. Now with that said, Im not ready to leave SWMBO and the kids for a year to pursue education, even if it it would be worth it. So, I have a couple options.

1. My brothers have worked and have remained friends with a successful brewery here in AZ. Im willing to quit my current job to basically volunteer for 3-4 months as an unpaid apprentice/brewers ***** basically. Trying to learn as much as possible about running and operating a brewery. I honestly don't think I would learn enough in that amount of time.

2.Head up to University of California, Davis for my professional brewers Cert.

3. Which is what im leaning to most, is take the 28 week online course through the Brewer's Guild. And still be able to do my 5 week apprenticeship here locally. Now Im kind of hesitant being that Im not sure how well an online course will teach you without labs, but Im willing to take a shot.

http://abgbrew.com/distancedinfo.htm

So much has happened last week, that Im about to bust with excitement. I just need to calm down and think about this logically, and what really would be the best course of action to take to learn how to run a brewery.
 
Personally, I think you should go with option 2. Keeps you close to your family, which is most important in my book. What good is it to be the most successful brewer in the world if you have to leave your family behind?

But mainly, I think that their are a lot of HBer's out there who make beer that is good enough to be a successful commercial brew. The issue is how good of a businessman are you. I think option 2 will be your best bet at getting the knowledge you need to make it.

Just like with running a restaurant, making good product is much less important than running your business right. Not that I have any experience with it, but I bet that's the way it works.
 
God Emporer BillyBrew said:
Just like with running a restaurant, making good product is much less important than running your business right. Not that I have any experience with it, but I bet that's the way it works.


I'm still thinking about the rest, but I think I disagree with this Billy. ESPECIALLY when it comes to a Brewpub. It appears, in order to be successful, there are three things you need... 1, a quality product. 2, a good biz plan. and 3, Location AND atmosphere... sad but true, the two go hand in hand....

MHO of course.... This is what I would shoot for...

Ize
 
Just an experience that I had here locally where we have several micros. We went to one of the newer brew pubs and the building was very nice, the atmosphere seemed good but the food and beer were very mediocre. I think my beer tasted better than the amber I had there. I have not gone back. There were not a lot of people in there as well.

Now there is this other place that sells about 100 or so beers with about 30 on draft all the time. They do not brew beer there but the food is good and they do a bang up business. Got a catchy name in 99 bottles. Its not a brewery but we go there all the time.

Something like that while honing the brewing skills.
 
So what led you in the direction of the brewpub versus starting a micro and focusing on distribution? Not questioning your choice, but that sounded like the much easier path for you to get started on given your connections to the distribution channel.

In any case, I wish you well, I hope that making this a business doesn't take the joy out of it!

I'm jealous as f*ck...
 
Ize said:
I'm still thinking about the rest, but I think I disagree with this Billy. ESPECIALLY when it comes to a Brewpub. It appears, in order to be successful, there are three things you need... 1, a quality product. 2, a good biz plan. and 3, Location AND atmosphere... sad but true, the two go hand in hand....

MHO of course.... This is what I would shoot for...

Ize

I agree with you almost completely, except that number 1 should be number 3.
 
God Emporer BillyBrew said:
I agree with you almost completely, except that number 1 should be number 3.


Fair enuf! :rockin:

I heartily agree with The Bird as well... I'm highly jealous.


Ize
 
the_bird said:
So what led you in the direction of the brewpub versus starting a micro and focusing on distribution? Not questioning your choice, but that sounded like the much easier path for you to get started on given your connections to the distribution channel.

In any case, I wish you well, I hope that making this a business doesn't take the joy out of it!

I'm jealous as f*ck...

Well to be totally honest, distribution was my plan from the beginning. It would have been a piece of cake here in town, with the contacts Ive made over the last 15 years of being here. My brothers and I were ready to go and start the paperwork on everything.

Then we get word of some investment property out to where we are going. While we were out there, we got to talking to this guy who owns a winery. Long story short, he has been open for 5 years, and cant keep up with the business. And he just went on and on about how he wishes someone would come in and open a brewery. He actually wanted to share the business with someone. I guess he is ready to retire and go travel. Anyways, we said what the hell, and decided havign a brewery in a ski town is the way to go. I am kind of worried about the business in the summertime, but apparently it's busy year round. So we'll see.

Right now I think Im going to go with option 3. I may do a longer apprenticeship if possible, but for something small like a 7-10bbl brewpub, I think I will pick up enough to do well. And of course ask the headbrewer there if I can keep him on retainer in case I do run into any problems.

I'll be sure to keep this thread updated for the progress.
 
Ize said:
I'm still thinking about the rest, but I think I disagree with this Billy. ESPECIALLY when it comes to a Brewpub. It appears, in order to be successful, there are three things you need... 1, a quality product. 2, a good biz plan. and 3, Location AND atmosphere... sad but true, the two go hand in hand....

MHO of course.... This is what I would shoot for...

Ize

Well not always. Not that I am in anyway saying Im going to have poor beer, I will close down before htat would happen, but Ive been to a number of small brewpubs where the beer is.....meh, nothing to write home about. And the place stays consistant. I wont go back to those places, but there are those who will.

But 1 will be taken care, and hopefully a gvery good quality product. #2 is taken care of, we are just going to hire someone to do the business plan, find the money, demographic....etc etc. We have dealt with them before, and they are extremely thorough. #3 well that should speak for itself. Ill post pics in October when we get back.
 
Sincerely, good luck! :mug: We're planning on being out that way next summer, so I'll be hoping to pay a visit to your new endeavour.


Ize
 
Chimone - Good luck!!

It's sounds like a great idea. It takes serious balls to leave a secure job and head out on your own, but most of the people I've talked to that have done it are VERY happy with their decision.

My only advice is to stick close to the wife and kids.
 
Ize said:
Sincerely, good luck! :mug: We're planning on being out that way next summer, so I'll be hoping to pay a visit to your new endeavour.


Ize


You and everyone else from HBT will always be more than welcome. And Im sure I will find out in the future, but for now, what are the laws about having a "guest brewer"? Maybe If someone wants, they can brew with me if they have any downtime from the slopes.
 
rdwj said:
. It takes serious balls to leave a secure job and head out on your own, but most of the people I've talked to that have done it are VERY happy with their decision.

My only advice is to stick close to the wife and kids.

Right now I have mixed emotions of being scared to death about leaving the security, and at the same time I can hardly contain myself because Im so excited. I must truley say SWMBO is a wonderful person. She just keeps letting me know me that we are doing the right thing, which makes it a bit easier on the mind.
 
Chimone said:
You and everyone else from HBT will always be more than welcome. And Im sure I will find out in the future, but for now, what are the laws about having a "guest brewer"? Maybe If someone wants, they can brew with me if they have any downtime from the slopes.

I may have missed this, but where are you setting up shop?
 
My prior (ok it's still current) hobby has made me a bit of money. The hobby is photography. I've won awards and sold quite a few prints and stock photos. It's difficult to be sure, but just something I love to do. Toughest is buying equipment...3-4K worth at a crack...and SWMBO supports me on it and things are coming through.

I know a gent who brewed as a hobby years ago and now it's his profession. I notice more than anything his SWMBO fully supported him throughout. So that is something that is already a given for you...which is great and IMHO is the deal-maker.

I visit Colorado here and there and am looking forward to visiting 'yer pub! If you need a Brewer's ***** for a day I'm there! 'Long as I can take some pic's of the Brewmaster and sell em!
 
Chimone said:
I must truley say SWMBO is a wonderful person. She just keeps letting me know me that we are doing the right thing, which makes it a bit easier on the mind.

The fact that you recognize this is a good sign, IMHO. A good woman is hard to find...and perhaps a man to appreciate her is harder. ;)

I live near a couple of restaurant/brewpubs in the socal area: Taps and BJ's. Both are online if you care to look them up. Both serve very good food and have a polished atmosphere (dark wood, old pub-type furnishings). They both draw a large % of their revenue, I would estimate, from the quality of the food and the nice but inviting atmosphere. They aren't "Joe's Beer Hut", nor are they "Chez Frenchy's". They aren't gimmicky like a TGIFriday's, Chili's or typical after work "drink booze and have appetizers" restaurant. But that's what people do. You don't feel as cheesy doing it, however. And for us snobby types ;) , they both have a weekly cask ale and some peculiar styles (imperial stout and super hoppy IPAs, even Strong Ale/Barley wines).

I guess what I'm trying to say, from a frequent customer point of view, is that most of your money is probably made from the people that order the tasty cream or blonde ale and 3 orders of fried calamari. but you will also have some business from the folks like us that love the IPA or ESB. The fact that your pub is a "real" pub will make even the cream ale drinkers happy, even if they don't want to go in for the more distinctive brews. I think it adds to the atmosphere, in and of itself. Good luck and God bless your work (sorry for the religious reference). I truly hope it turns out well.

monk
 
Update....

Well its funny how things change from time to time when you are still in "what are our options mode".

Well first things first. School starts in February. It runs Feb - June. I kind of lucked out a bit with how things are working out. I had my future SWMBO in law who is a bartender at a huge brewery in Phx. SHe spoke with one of the Owners/Brewers who attended the same school Im going to(The Brewer's Guild in Vermont) Anyways, I asked her to speak with them about the internship. The way it works, is that you pay the school 2500 more, and they contract a local brewery to hire you on as an apprentice for 5 weeks. Well I asked her to see if they wouldn't mind me going up there and save myself a bit of cash. Well to make a long story short, he wanted to know when I could start, and that being full time position, not as an apprentice. I will head up there soon to have a little chat with him.

So, schooling taken care of. Next comes the brewpub. Well, we got to thinking. Are we really ready for a restaurant? Because thats really what it is, its not all about the beer. So option #2 comes into play. We could, very easily stay here in Vista and do a Microbrewery strictly for distribution. We had both local distributors over to the house the other night and got to talking with them about this. THey are more than ready for us to start, and said our biggest problem is not going to be able to keep up with demand. Which is a blessing as well as a potential problem. One more thing to be worked out. Now our inital plan isnt cut out completely, its just another route we can take. One thing at a time though, I need as much schooling, and as much experience as possible.

more to come........
 
Chimone,

Wow! Sounds very familiar in what I am doing too. I am in the process of searching for a location. I am also in the making of a BrewPub. Where I live there is but one in the area and it is within driving distance of about 12 miles. I am planning on locating property in my town. We have several unique opportunities that will place us well ahead of any competition in the area. I have lived in my town for over 33 years and know almost all small business owners. My brother-in-law is an excellent brewer and has won many awards including national titles. I too love to brew and have brewed many awesome beers. I recently received my masters in business and plan to forge ahead with this life long dream (at least as far as I can remember). I am also a history buff - no expert but love the fact that beer has been the staple of life since its discovery. My motivation is to contribute something to the history of beer.

I hope to read about yours someday and likewise you mine. Good luck!!

- WW
 
Right on wilson, good luck to you as well!

I just scored a job with the brewery one town over. Tonight is my first night, and its bottling night.....Yippee, bottling!!! Heh, it has to be better than doing it in my kitchen and washing all of the bottles by hand though. He told me to be prepared to get wet.

Damn, I havent been this excited about a new job....ever.
 
Chimone said:
Right on wilson, good luck to you as well!

I just scored a job with the brewery one town over. Tonight is my first night, and its bottling night.....Yippee, bottling!!! Heh, it has to be better than doing it in my kitchen and washing all of the bottles by hand though. He told me to be prepared to get wet.

Damn, I havent been this excited about a new job....ever.


That RAWKS man! :mug: Keep those of us living vicariously thru you guys updated as much as possible. :D Which town is it?


Ize
 
Ize said:
That RAWKS man! :mug: Keep those of us living vicariously thru you guys updated as much as possible. :D Which town is it?


Ize

It is Dave's Electric Brewery in Bisbee AZ. Its not a very big place, but he is living his dream through it, and said he would be more than happy to let me learn as much as possible there.
 
So what's the update?

I'd be excited to hear what you have so far. Experience and lessons alike.

I'm going to cross ref threads here but read through my post @ "Business Idea Question" if you get a chance. How far off was I? How much of that have you seen so far? What is different? What can you add for Rono that would be more relevant or the biggest help?

I hope everything has been going great for you and wish you and your family the best of luck! I hope someday to ask for a brewery tour and swap stories with you over a couple of your own beers!

Cheers! :tank:
 
Well lots have changed since the first post. School is going great though, its a bit harder than I first thought but I just cant seem to get enough brewing theory. I love this stuff. There is quite a bit of contradicting info between the pros and homebrewers. Ive since stopped even getting into discussions on the differences here on the board. And the instructors....well they want you to stop considering yourself a homebrewer immediately. Like its a degrading title or something.

Ive volunteered many hours at local brewpubs, and well I come to the realization that brewing professionally isn't even close to being as relaxing or fun as homebrewing. Its well.......a crappy job. Rewarding yes, but still really crappy. Loads of hard work, and well Im currently a lazy gov't contractor. Work is a 4 letter word ;)


New avenues have opened up. Ive also decided not to go into business with my family. That would be a very, very bad thing to do. I have a local bar owner ready to start discussing plans for adding on to an allready existing establishment and depending how much I want to bring to the table, he'll make me a partner on the endeavor.


I dont know......Right now, Im just happy homebrewing. It just seems everyone around me wants me to make the jump asap. If it happens, it happens....we'll see
 
Chimone said:
There is quite a bit of contradicting info between the pros and homebrewers. Ive since stopped even getting into discussions on the differences here on the board.

Can you give us a top 10 contradictions list or something similar? I know that I'd be interested in reading it.
 
the_bird said:
So what led you in the direction of the brewpub versus starting a micro and focusing on distribution? Not questioning your choice, but that sounded like the much easier path for you to get started on given your connections to the distribution channel.

In any case, I wish you well, I hope that making this a business doesn't take the joy out of it!

I'm jealous as f*ck...

I've been thinking about this for a long time as well and whole heartily plan to do this in the next 10 years. Now my best friend is the head brewer for old burnside brewing co in E Hartford, ct and will most likely be my partner in the whole deal. We have agreed that for us brew pub is the only way to go. some reasons include: smaller batches, more room for creativity, retail sales (bar) hugely offset costs quicker than wholesale, and a brew pub can grow very easily into local and eventually farther distribution. It seems like the best bet for starting small and growing into your demographic. keep in mind dogfish head started their MD brew pub with a sabco brewmagic system. I'd be willing to bet that 10% or more of this sites regular posters already brew on bigger and better systems now!
 
Chimone said:
im pleading the 5th for now


Chimone this is great.

Have you checked into the cost side of getting something going? There is always a lot of talk on here about how expensive all the fees and crap is but no one ever says just how much it will cost.

I'm also curious, if you are already making good beer of your own design what makes school so important?

Thanks.
 
Chimone said:
yessir. good ole boring ft huachuca
Coming from Basic Training to there, we called it Fort Resort. :) I did like the area. If I didn't have my Gov civ position here at Fort Sam Houston, I would'nt mine one there.
 
Todd said:
Have you checked into the cost side of getting something going? There is always a lot of talk on here about how expensive all the fees and crap is but no one ever says just how much it will cost.

depending on investors, or in other words, if I were to do this myself. I would go with a class 3 license. 500 dollars a year, and your can produce and sell up to 200k gallons of your own product a year. This means, no liquor, no BMC ( i know you guys are in tears over that one) and no other beer from a distributor. Im not sure if this means I can distribute myself or not. And 200k gallons a year is a buttload of beer. Of course you're going to have your business license, health license, municiple crap blah blah blah. and this doesnt even cover label approval, beer names, lawyer **** so you dont get sued. which I really dont even want to deal with, but kind of have to

A class 6 license here in town is going to cost me about 125k. But thats anything goes pretty much liquor/beer/food/beer to go......*cough strippers *cough :mug:

And Ive spoken with the guys at premier stainless. For what I want its going to be roughly 150k. I can find fermentors cheap (jacketed too) Then theres the whole location part. Thats the killer. Where can I do this. Is it zoned for a bar? How much....etc etc legal crap that makes my head hurt.
 
Chimone said:
depending on investors, or in other words, if I were to do this myself. I would go with a class 3 license. 500 dollars a year, and your can produce and sell up to 200k gallons of your own product a year. This means, no liquor, no BMC ( i know you guys are in tears over that one) and no other beer from a distributor. Im not sure if this means I can distribute myself or not. And 200k gallons a year is a buttload of beer. Of course you're going to have your business license, health license, municiple crap blah blah blah. and this doesnt even cover label approval, beer names, lawyer **** so you dont get sued. which I really dont even want to deal with, but kind of have to

A class 6 license here in town is going to cost me about 125k. But thats anything goes pretty much liquor/beer/food/beer to go......*cough strippers *cough :mug:

And Ive spoken with the guys at premier stainless. For what I want its going to be roughly 150k. I can find fermentors cheap (jacketed too) Then theres the whole location part. Thats the killer. Where can I do this. Is it zoned for a bar? How much....etc etc legal crap that makes my head hurt.

Thanks for that.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top