looking for advice on batch #2

so i'm looking at the 60 minute ipa recipe in sam calagioni's book "extreme brewing" book. the recipe is by bryan selders (dogfish head brewery). recipe below....

pre boil tea

6 ounces crushed british amber malt

boil

7 lbs light DME
1/2 oz warrior
1/2 oz simcoe
1/2 oz amarillo
1/2 oz amarillo

fermentation

wyeast 1187 ringwood ale
1 oz amarillo
1/2 oz simocoe

bottling

5 oz priming sugar



and then i run across a clone recipe in BYO's hop lovers guide. recipe below....

pre boil tea

1.5 lbs 2 row pale malt
6.4 oz thomas fawcett amber malt

boil

4 lbs muntons light DME

late edition of....

2 lbs. 14 oz. muntons light liquid malt extract

irish moss

.7 oz warrior
7.9 oz simcoe
.7 oz palisade


fermentation

wyeast 1187 ringwood ale
.59 oz amarillo
.59 oz simcoe
.59 oz glacier

bottling

7/8 cup priming sugar




the first recipe calls for a full wort boil and the second calls for a 4 gallon boil. as i will be brewing inside, i will not be able to do that. here are my thoughts.....

steep the grains in two gallons water then sparge with 1/2 boiling water. bring to boil. add DME and hops as directed... it's a 75 minute boil.

should i keep about a 1/2 gallon of boiling water off to the side and add a bit in about ever ten minutes?

should i add some of the DME in the beginning and some in the end in order to get better hop utilization?

i've only brewed one beer so far and i have discovered that my stove is 10K btu's (gas). i know i can get 2.5 gallons to boil, but i haven't tried to get more than that. is there a max amount i can get to boil given those number of btu's?


thanks in advance.

I think some more information would really be beneficial in trying to answer your questions.

1) How big is your boiling pot? I would do a test with water on your stovetop to try and boil as much water as you can in there, leaving a little headroom for foaming up so you are not battling boil-overs all the time. FermcapS will help avoid boilovers if you are maxing out your pot volume. You want to boil as much as you can. Someone might be able to help with a calculation, but I would test if it were me.

2) Do the recipes you mentioned give approximate IBUs? The amount of IBUs you extract will be based heavily on the volume of your boil. If you give the specifics of the boil volume and estimated IBUs, we can do a little work on your hop schedule to get you closer to the beer you are trying to clone.

And some other thoughs.

-I would definitely do a late extract addition. This will help with your hop utilization, and you will caramelize your wort less (or have less mailard reactions, can't remember which). Both will improve your beer.
-Try steeping in between 3/4 to 1 gallon per pound of grain. If you exceed that, you could extract tannins (this is debated here, but Palmer says so, and that is good enough for me). I also do this in a separate pot, so you can get the remainder of your water boiling to save time.
-I don't know about adding water on the side. If you are maxing out your burner, when you add the water, you will lose the boil. Maybe if you were boiling that water in another pot and always adding boiling water you would be ok. I would only think about doing that if you could only manage a small boil.

DuckAssassin said:

I think some more information would really be beneficial in trying to answer your questions.

1) How big is your boiling pot?
2) Do the recipes you mentioned give approximate IBUs?

-I would definitely do a late extract addition. This will help with your hop utilization, and you will caramelize your wort less (or have less mailard reactions, can't remember which). Both will improve your beer.
-Try steeping in between 3/4 to 1 gallon per pound of grain. If you exceed that, you could extract tannins (this is debated here, but Palmer says so, and that is good enough for me). I also do this in a separate pot, so you can get the remainder of your water boiling to save time.
-I don't know about adding water on the side. If you are maxing out your burner, when you add the water, you will lose the boil. Maybe if you were boiling that water in another pot and always adding boiling water you would be ok. I would only think about doing that if you could only manage a small boil.

Click to expand...

1) 20 quarts
2) 60 ibus

how much of the DME would you hold for the late addition and would 15 minutes left (of a 75 minute boil) be three right time?

i'd be adding boiling water to the wort if i did it. just enough to replace what is lost in the boil.


if there is any other facts i left out that would help in assisting, please let me know. i'm very new to this.

thanks for your time and recommendations!

-If you have a five gallon pot, I would try boiling at least 3.5 gallons. I used be able to boil 4 gallons on my stovetop, but you have to be very diligent about watching it for boil-overs. The more the better though. I have moved to full boils (based on information I found here) and my beer has really improved as a result (in case you hadn't read that elsewhere).
-I just noticed that the second recipe that you listed looks like a partial mash (based on lower extract volume and the 1.5 lbs of 2-row). If you are not equiped for that I would go with the first recipe.
- For late extract addition with 7 lbs I would do 3 lbs initially, add the remaining 4 lbs at flameout, stir in and let sit 10 minutes before you begin to cool. You could also add the remaining extract with 10-15 minutes left in the boil, but that is going to knock your temp way down and it will take a while to return to a boil on a stovetop. Just my $.02.

If you have purchased your hops already, list the AA% on each. It would help with trying to suggest a hop schedule (unless you have access to some software for that). There are a few free ones online. I use beersmith and would highly reccomend it. I am at work, so can't calculate it now, but I could do it this evening or someone else might jump in and help.

thanks for your help so far! i'll test to see how much water i can get to a boil.

regarding the second recipe, it is indeed a partial mash. i'm following the ingredients on the first, but noticed the late DME addition of the second recipe and from what you are telling me, that would be a good idea. flameout instead of with fifteen minutes left, check!

regarding the AA% on each, as soon as i get them in the mail, i will come back and post them in this thread.

i'll shoot you a private message letting you know when i do.

thanks for all your help!

btw, are you a member of beeradvocate?

having a gathering at the end of the month in NOLA.... details....

BeerAdvocate Tasting @ Avenue Pub


Saturday - May 30, 2009 @ 07:00PM / ends @ 11:00PM
BeerAdvocate Gathering @ The Avenue Pub
New Orleans, Louisiana
(504) 613-7551

Event Details:
Once again another New Orleans BeerAdvocate gathering has arrived! If you missed out on the last one you do not want to miss this one!!! The last one at Steins was an incredible time and I'm sure this one will be also!

Place: Avenue Pub
Date: May 30th
Time: 7pm
Price: same as last time: bring beers you can't get in Louisiana, homebrew or rare beers(one offs, aged, whatever).
Food: Avenue Pub will provide some snacks but you can order food from there as well.




the first one at stein's deli was outstanding. highly recommended. i'll be bringing some really good commercial beers as well as my first homebrew!

if you aren't a member, join and come along!

Thanks for the heads up. I have been on BA a few times. I signed up for an account, but not sure if that makes me a member. I haven't been on there too much, because it reminds me of all of the great beers that I can't seem to get here. I will have to check that out though.

Yeah, PM when you get your ingredients, and good luck with the batch.

yeah, you are a member! feel free to come to the tasting.

i'll be in touch.

here are the hops.....

AMARILLO 9.3%
SIMCOE 12.9%
WARRIOR 14%