Maltodextrin in Vienna Lager

My next beer is going to be a Vienna Lager -- something like Negra Modelo or Dos Equis. Since this is my first attempt at any lager much less a Vienna, I bought the AHS Dos Equis all grain kit as a starting point, figuring I'd modify from there if necessary. Should be pretty straightforward.

The kit came with a small bag of maltodextrin. I know that maltodextrin is supposed to add body and mouthfeel and perhaps a little residual sweetness. I have couple of questions:

A) Is that appropriate? I don't think of Mexican/Vienna lagers as having huge amounts of body or much residual sweetness.

B) Can't I do the same thing by making minor mash temperature adjustments?

and given A & B, can I just leave it out? Or is there a point to the maltodextrin that I'm just not getting?

Thanks for any help and insights,
Chad

Does Malto-dextrin really add any sweetness? I was under the impression that it really didn't have any affect on the flavor at all. I believe that if you don't go overboard, say 8 oz. for a 5 gallon batch, you should get improved mouth feel without any noticeable change in flavor, but I still consider myself somewhat of a noob so I could be wrong.

I've never made a vienna lager, but I have two thoughts. First of all, I don't think of them as full or even medium bodied, so I'd leave it out. But, then, why did they include it? So, maybe I'd use it!

Just teasing- if you want to post the recipe along with the mash schedule, I bet we could see if you need the MD.

I'm formulating a Vienna Lager now (it's going to be my first lager) and none of the sources I've read (Daniels, Noonan) say you really need anything more than Vienna malt. So I'm not sure the maltodextrine is really necessary. My reading suggests a Vienna Lager should finish dry and somewhat malty, but not sweet.

BJCP says light to medium mouthfeel. I agree with YooperBrew, post the entire recipe if you can, maybe it needs it.

Maltodextrin can be added as late as the secondary.

I'd be inclined to skip it.

Thanks, folks. Here's the AHS recipe:

9lbs Pilsner malt
6oz Crystal 20
1lb Vienna malt
1oz Black Patent

60min. mash at 150° w/6.25gal mash+sparge

.25lb maltodextrin at boil

1.25oz of Tettnang @ 60min
.25oz of Tettnang @ 15min

White Labs WL0025 German Lager

OG of 1.049
FG of 1.013

I've done a little tweaking in BeerSmith to fit my equipment. The .bsm file is attached. It's pretty close, but I've adjusted for better efficiency and a little more attenuation. I figure I can get 5.75gal into the fermenter @ 1.050 rather than the 5.25gal @ 1.049 in the AHS recipe. I've got my processes pretty well dialed in at this point. It's the maltodextrin that's throwing me.

Chad

View attachment Vienna Lager.bsm

I wouldn't use it in a Vienna lager. It's supposed to have a light body.

That recipe isn't really close, it should include more vienna malt, I would skip the maltodextrin, and the rest looks OK, what yeast are you using ? 0025 isn't a yeast I've ever heard of. I used WLP 838 1/3 vienna 1/3 pilsner and /1/3 munich and it came out awesome, but if you have a kit then go for it and let us know how it comes out.

I thought I was going to brew this a while back so made a starter with the kit yeast. I didn't get to brew, so the starter is long dead. I'll probably use Wyeast 2124 Bohemian Lager or 2308 Munich Lager. Heck, maybe I'll pitch a pack of each and forgo the starter altogether.

I agree that the small amount of Vienna malt is puzzling. I'll craft my own recipe next time, but AHS kits have a pretty good reputation so I expect to be fairly close to style.

Thanks for all the help, folks. I think I will skip the maltodextrin.

Chad

It is only a 1/4 lb of Malto Dextrin so you can skip it if you want. It will not leave sweetness it is for mouthfeel and a little extra body. It is simply sugar from malt. I use it for a lot of batches because it improves the quality of the beer. Of course it is not needed but I don't understand why people don't want to use it. It is malt sugar. I could understand if it was some chemical that people are unfamiliar with but it is sugar from malt.

Forrest

Hi, Forrest. Thanks for chiming in. I appreciate the insight into the recipe development.

There is nothing inherently wrong with maltodextrin. It just seems like a little bit of a cheat. When I brew beer it is not just to produce good beer, though that is a great side benefit. I like to see what I can achieve with just grains and yeast. I bake bread the same way. The real test of a baker is to produce extraordinary flavor with just flour and yeast. Of course my bread takes a couple of days to make (which is a pain in the butt when you just want a sandwich). So when I brew beer, if the target is increased mouthfeel or body I feel that I should be able to achieve that by controlling the mash temperature rather than adding something else to the beer.

What the heck. As you say, it's only a quarter pound. Maybe I'll give it a try and see if I like what it does.

Take care,
Chad

It is not really a cheat, it is sugar from malt. The amount of grain needed to replace the body given by the malto dextrin would make the kit be more expensive. I personally think malto dextrin is a great tool to use. Especially because you can add it after you didn't reach the body you were looking for.

Forrest

As an update, this beer has now been in bottles for 3 weeks. It's pretty darn yummy. Not as much hop bitterness or flavor as I'd like. I know Vienna Lager is supposed to be balanced toward the malt, but this one still needs a little more backbone.

I'm calling it Señor Misterioso Vienna Lager. I've attached the Beersmith file with my fermentation and tasting notes if anyone is interested.

Chad

View attachment Senor Misterioso.bsm