Stainless Kettle too good to be true.

So now that I've gotten my hands on some heat sticks, I'm thinking of a partial overhaul of my system. I figured I'd get another big kettle to be used as eithr a boil kettle or a HLT. my first search for "stockpot" on CL brought me to an ad advertising this kettle:

15 Gallon Home Brew Kettle (1 Coupler), spikebrewing

They have some decent prices, but can't tell if the quality is there. My Aluminum BK is 6 mmm and I like that thickness. This one is 1 mm. Is there a difference in durability between 1 mm of stainless and 6 mm aluminum?

Anybody think these are decent stainless kettles for this price?

Hell no. 1mm? That's like glorified tin foil.

That's what I thought at first, but a Blichman is only 1.2 mm

Seriously? The side walls maybe, but not the bottom. The bottom of my SS kettle is probably 8mm. That's what I'd be concerned with

ok, I"m an idiot. It's not the blingman that's 1.2. I can't actually find the wall thickness of a blichman. but this kettle is 1.2 mm

Austin Homebrew Supply

and it's more than double the price.

The bottom thickness is what bothers me about it, but I"m looking at these for an electric setup. Ideally, I'd like to repurpose my 20g BK as a HLT, and use this pot as a BK, with an electric element. So I'm not really sure that the bottom thickness matters with a heat stick. But then again, I know nothing about electric brewing, so I could be totally wrong.

I like the thickness of my current BK, which is 6 mm, but then again, I'm running it on a propane burner where the bottom thickness matters. I guess another of my questions is whether bottom thickness matters with an electric setup

The bottom thickness matters with propane burners because the flame is directly heating the bottom of the pot. Thicker bottom = less chance scorching the wort. With an electric element you don't have to worry about that.

I think that looks like a pretty decent deal if you want a pot instead of the standard converted keg... i like the converted keg, its kinda redneck and makes me feel more at home with all the other technical stuff going on lol

I have one of these kettles. They are ok. I use it as a HLT. Be advised that they are not a 15 gallon kettle. I noticed it seemed smaller than my other 15 gallon kettle when I received it. I calculated the volume to be less than 13.5 gallons. Use the dimensions given on the website and you will get about 13.5 gallons. I alerted the seller earlier this week, but he hasn't changed the website. He is on this site, so maybe he will chime in. These kettles are also discussed here.

bottlebomber said:

Hell no. 1mm? That's like glorified tin foil.

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You can't be serious...my 10 gallon stainless steel megapot has 1mm thick walls and it's tough as nails. Maybe you were referring to 1mm thick aluminum but 1mm thick SS is very rigid.

The kettles that MoreBeer, Mega Pot and we use are 1.2 mm (16 gauge).
The Blichmann's are 1 mm (18 gauge).

I'll have to mic my kettle when I get home but its got to be more than that. 1mm is only .039"....

I need to correct myself
18 gauge is .05 / 1.27 mm
1 mm is between 19 and 20 gauge

mikeysab said:

So now that I've gotten my hands on some heat sticks, I'm thinking of a partial overhaul of my system. I figured I'd get another big kettle to be used as eithr a boil kettle or a HLT. my first search for "stockpot" on CL brought me to an ad advertising this kettle:

15 Gallon Home Brew Kettle (1 Coupler), spikebrewing

They have some decent prices, but can't tell if the quality is there. My Aluminum BK is 6 mmm and I like that thickness. This one is 1 mm. Is there a difference in durability between 1 mm of stainless and 6 mm aluminum?

Anybody think these are decent stainless kettles for this price?

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I see you found my link .

To answer some questions... Aluminum kettles are much thicker (usually the 4-6mm range) because aluminum is one of the weakest metals out there. Stainless on the other hand is one of the strongest. Here's what I always say to the people that bring up wall thickness... A beer keg is 1.2mm thick and are designed to be beat up by drunk college kids and dropped out semi truck trailers for years. Now if you plan on abusing your kettle like that I'd recommended a 1.2mm wall .

As for bottom thickness... A single layer bottom is all you need. People always say that you'll get scorching with a single layered kettle. Well I had an independent brew group do some testing for me and found no scorching (I'll be happy to send their findings to anyone interested). The triple layer will slow down your heating times and are about $150 more expensive. I've even had a guy tell me he used a 220,000BTU burner on a .6mm single layer kettle with no scorching.

Any more questions feel free to email or call me

Ben
262.370.4616

bottlebomber said:

Hell no. 1mm? That's like glorified tin foil.

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To be blunt, you have no idea what you're talking about

Ajgeo said:

I have one of these kettles. They are ok. I use it as a HLT. Be advised that they are not a 15 gallon kettle. I noticed it seemed smaller than my other 15 gallon kettle when I received it. I calculated the volume to be less than 13.5 gallons. Use the dimensions given on the website and you will get about 13.5 gallons. I alerted the seller earlier this week, but he hasn't changed the website. He is on this site, so maybe he will chime in. These kettles are also discussed here.

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He is correct. The kettles measure closer to 14gals. I've talked to the supplier and they will be shipping out new 'full capacity' kettles. The problem was the factory was using a +/-10% tolerance on those particular kettles, which is absurd. I have new ones on the way.

Well I had an independent brew group do some testing for me and found no scorching (I'll be happy to send their findings to anyone interested).

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color me interested...

audger said:

color me interested...

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Me too. If all the info in your quote is correct, this information could save me around $150 when I upgrade.

SpikeBrewing said:

because aluminum is one of the weakest metals out there. Stainless on the other hand is one of the strongest.

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To be blunt, you have no idea what your talking about. What do you mean by "metals"? Do you mean alloys? I have personally worked with a dozen of each. Saying "stainless is one of the strongest metals" is like saying "africa is the poorest country". You need to be more specific. Some aluminum alloys are stonger than steel, based on weight to tensile strength ratios. That's why they make airplanes out of 7075 grade aluminum. Stainless isn't really all that strong at all, it is actually quite soft compared to many metals. What makes it desirable is its corrosion resistance and in some cases the fact that most SS alloys are non-magnetic. You will never find SS used in an application where strength is the main consideration unless it is also essential that there be corrosion resistance, in which case some of the high strength nickel alloys such as Hastelloy C-276, Monel, and Inconel would be preferred. Well, I'm glad we got to have this little talk.

I guess we should take into account that he was most likely generalizing that the 304/314 stainless that's used in most stainless food grade applications is stronger than 3000 series Alu at a certain gauge.

bottlebomber said:

Well, I'm glad we got to have this little talk.

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Welcome to the forum spike brewing... i'll just say thanks for supporting HBT with a vendor account. We like to correct and give a hard time, but I will agree of the materials we are willing to brew in stainless is the strongest :rockin: copper and aluminum are quite soft metals.

Ok I am done defending a first post. happy brewing

stamandster said:

I guess we should take into account that he was most likely generalizing that the 304/314 stainless that's used in most stainless food grade applications is stronger than 3000 series Alu at a certain gauge.

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Could be , although 18/8 is the more common. All I know is I'm pretty confident I've forgotten more about metals than spike will ever know, and I don't appreciate being spoken too that way, especially by what is evidently a vendor trying to sell the kettle.

Someone's panties are bunching.

Who was it that said 1mm stainless kegs were "glorified tin foil"?

Cheers!

day_trippr said:

Someone's panties are bunching.

Who was it that said 1mm stainless kegs were "glorified tin foil"?

Cheers!

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Well... I have been a machinist since I left HS and took a 4 year journeyman program that focused primarily on metallurgy involving the study of metal grain structure, tensile strength testing, and have even created my own alloys in a foundry so for someone to tell me I don't know what im talking about does rub me wrong, yes. You would get pissed too if you had invested 14 years into something. I just took a bearing micrometer to my kettle, and the walls are .080 thick, 2mm. My All-clad stainless was .120, or 3 mm. So yes, 1 mm does seem thin. Initially I wasn't thinking about the sidewalls though but more the bottom of the kettle. I've never noticed that kettles are rated according to the sidewalls, as I mentioned Im a machinist not a cookware salesman.

bottlebomber said:

To be blunt, you have no idea what your talking about. What do you mean by "metals"? Do you mean alloys? I have personally worked with a dozen of each. Saying "stainless is one of the strongest metals" is like saying "africa is the poorest country". You need to be more specific. Some aluminum alloys are stonger than steel, based on weight to tensile strength ratios. That's why they make airplanes out of 7075 grade aluminum. Stainless isn't really all that strong at all, it is actually quite soft compared to many metals. What makes it desirable is its corrosion resistance and in some cases the fact that most SS alloys are non-magnetic. You will never find SS used in an application where strength is the main consideration unless it is also essential that there be corrosion resistance, in which case some of the high strength nickel alloys such as Hastelloy C-276, Monel, and Inconel would be preferred. Well, I'm glad we got to have this little talk.

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Not trying to get into a pissing contest but....

Your comment that 1mm thick stainless is "tin foil" is asinine in the context of home brewing kettles side wall thickness. I was making a generalization that stainless is stronger than aluminum and thus doesn't need to be as thick as his 6mm thick Al kettle. I don't know how many people are buying aluminum kettles out of 7075 grade aluminum so again I was making a generalization (since most members are not degreed in material engineering) talking about the standard 304 stainless and 3003 Al. And your point about 7075 Al being stronger is false as 304 has a higher ultimate yield and modules of elasticity.

Either way I don't know what your agenda is but please refrain from posting in future threads involving my business. I'm sure other vendors feel the same way when you're spreading mis-information about how thick a kettle needs to be.

jtsims21 said:

Welcome to the forum spike brewing... i'll just say thanks for supporting HBT with a vendor account. We like to correct and give a hard time, but I will agree of the materials we are willing to brew in stainless is the strongest :rockin: copper and aluminum are quite soft metals.

Ok I am done defending a first post. happy brewing

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Ha ha I've been a member of FAR harsher boards but thanks

I just don't like someone trying to cut down on my business or others. There's plenty of mis-informmation out there, no need to add to it.

audger said:

color me interested...

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SenorPepe said:

Me too. If all the info in your quote is correct, this information could save me around $150 when I upgrade.

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The original is a .pdf but I made it into a .jpeg so I can post. The guys that tested it are actually members here so maybe they will chime in.

bottlebomber said:

Well... I have been a machinist since I left HS and took a 4 year journeyman program that focused primarily on metallurgy involving the study of metal grain structure, tensile strength testing, and have even created my own alloys in a foundry so for someone to tell me I don't know what im talking about does rub me wrong, yes. You would get pissed too if you had invested 14 years into something. I just took a bearing micrometer to my kettle, and the walls are .080 thick, 2mm. My All-clad stainless was .120, or 3 mm. So yes, 1 mm does seem thin. Initially I wasn't thinking about the sidewalls though but more the bottom of the kettle. I've never noticed that kettles are rated according to the sidewalls, as I mentioned Im a machinist not a cookware salesman.

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Again not trying to spark a fire under you (as it already seems there's one a blazing) but where did you get your kettles. I have never seen anyone advertise anything over 1.2mm. A beer keg is 1.2mm and is plenty strong enough to be beat on by drunk college kids for years.

Hey Spike,

Is there any way you could make the pictures on your website bigger?

I clicked on the magnifying glass and the picture isn't much bigger.

Thanks!

[quote="SpikeBrewing]
Either way I don't know what your agenda is but please refrain from posting in future threads involving my business. I'm sure other vendors feel the same way when you're spreading mis-information about how thick a kettle needs to be.
[/quote]
My agenda is not being bad mouthed by a new member who is trying to promote their business on a forum I am very involved in, in this case. Most of the people on here would be able to tell you what an easy going and generous guy I am. This was not a thread you started, but a thread started by someone who I am acquainted with on the forum. If you are selling these kettles, and you didn't agree with what I said, a more appropriate response might have been "actually 1mm is a lot more durable than you'd think. I am selling these kettles, and can vouch that they are of excellent quality for the price". I don't know what kind of a business you are planning on running or for how long, but that kind of a troll attitude will get you nowhere.

bottlebomber said:

Could be , although 18/8 is the more common. All I know is I'm pretty confident I've forgotten more about metals than spike will ever know, and I don't appreciate being spoken too that way, especially by what is evidently a vendor trying to sell the kettle.

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Ahh... thought 18/8 was a 300 series stainless alloy.

Have to say, though, I think the thread certainly could have been handled better. A new vendor is, well, new at the whole end user communication etiquette and customer creation/retention thing, and a member might have gotten a little excited for a possible demeaning call out.

Can't we all just get along??

Perhaps 1mm is fine... we won't know till some more real world brewing! I for one request a free testing sample from your "old" undersized 13g batch

stamandster said:

Ahh... thought 18/8 was a 300 series stainless alloy.

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Well technically 18/8 is kind of a generic category used for inferior quality (or more correctly non-machining grade) that would be used for cookware etc. All it guarantees is that the metal is 18% chrome I believe. 300 series is broad.

Can't we all just get along??

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Im always great with that idea mostly..

stamandster said:

Ahh... thought 18/8 was a 300 series stainless alloy.

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18/10, 18/8, and 18/0 are 18% chromium and the second number is the % of nickel. All of these are in the 304 stainless family.

bottlebomber said:

Im always great with that idea mostly..

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Truce

I have to deal with people not knowing what they are talking about all day long and it gets old. I took my frustration out on you; I apologize.

dallasdb said:

Hey Spike,

Is there any way you could make the pictures on your website bigger?

I clicked on the magnifying glass and the picture isn't much bigger.

Thanks!

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I'll work on getting them on the site. In the mean time I loaded some onto photobuckt.

http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f284/erbstang94/Spike Brewing/?action=view&current=CIMG2456.jpg

SpikeBrewing said:

I have to deal with people not knowing what they are talking about all day long and it gets old. I took my frustration out on you; I apologize.

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I apologize too. I am desperate for my vacation that starts in 3 days, I hate this time of year, and I flared up which is out of character for me. Truce.

Group hug! And a round of Kum Ba Ya!

Cheers!

Spike, as a vendor there's a fine line between defending your product and appeasing customers. Be willing to take one on the cheek and roll with it. Bomber is obviously very knowledgeable in this arena and would be an excellent ally.
This hobby seems to have no end to the education period which makes it both interesting and sometimes contentious.
Lot of words to say take it all in, sift out the wisdom and move forward.

It's cool Hoppy we resolved our differences... they are after all a great deal on kettles of that size. I just think our tempers got the best of us. He sells kettles, and I machine a lot of stainless alloys. There is probably a lot we could learn from each other.

Well, that's refreshing. The anonymity of the interwebz rarely leads to such an end. Kudos to both of you.

djfriesen said:

Well, that's refreshing. The anonymity of the interwebz rarely leads to such an end. Kudos to both of you.

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You'd be amazed how easily these online interactions can bleed over into real life. The world is a small, small place.

I think I found a better pot. What do you guys think about this one?

Update International 60 Qt. Stainless Steel Pot with Sandwich Bottom (cover included) - UPI-SPS-60 - SPS-60 at Wares Direct

It's thicker and has a sandwich bottom. It doesn't have any ports, but weldless are easy enough to throw in there. Any good on this one?

Many people use these pots from Update International. I think they may be the same pot that Spike is selling, he is just installing the ports as a service and reselling them.

His pots are 1mm all around, these are 1.2 mm with a sandwich bottom.

Man that's a damn good deal on a pot...

Hows that type of stainless, BB?

mikeysab said:

Hows that type of stainless, BB?

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Its your pretty standard 18/8 meaning generic, stainless steel. When they are making machining grade stainless they have to add all the alloying elements in very narrow and controlled amounts, because many customers require material certs. With a generic 18/8 grade ss the amounts of material they add aren't as textbook;they don't necessarily fall in the exact criteria to make them 304/316 etc. Perfectly fine for stamping a pot with though. This really is a great deal, I don't know how they can offer this at this price with the aluminum core bottom.