Break proteins, or lack thereof.

I brewed my first AG batch this past Sunday, and after the boil I chilled the wort with tap water to about 100°F before I began to recirculate ice water through the IC. I got it down to about 70°F before racking into the primary, however, I didn't notice a whole hell of alot of trub in the pot. I used bags for my hop additions, but not much of that white protein trub in the bottom of the kettle. I had a vigorous boil, and I used Irish Moss 15 minutes before flameout, but still very little trub. It was a 5 gallon batch, here is the recipe:

Type: All Grain
Date: 9/6/2009
Batch Size: 5.25 gal
Brewer: Broken Glass Brewery
Boil Size: 7.50 gal Asst Brewer: Shawn Dunn
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: My Equipment - Brew Pot (15 Gal/60 qt) and Coleman Xtreme Cooler (52 qt)
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.80

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
6.75 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 84.38 %
0.75 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 9.38 %
0.50 lb Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 6.25 %
0.75 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 23.2 IBU
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.50 %] (30 min) Hops 5.7 IBU
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.50 %] (5 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
0.50 tsp Brewer's Yeast (yeast hulls) (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.50 tbsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) [Starter 1000 ml] Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.045 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.04 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.17 %
Bitterness: 28.9 IBU Calories: 205 cal/pint
Est Color: 8.0 SRM Color: Color

Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 8.00 lb
Sparge Water: 6.00 gal
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F


Name Description: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time: 75 min
Step Temp: 150.0 F
Mash In: Add 10.00 qt of water at 165.6 F

Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time). Double batch sparge with no mash out using equal sparge volumes.

Was the grain bill too small to have a large amount of trub?

None of the grains used had a large amount of protiens in them, can this be another reason for the lack of trub?

I'm just starting to wonder if I'm gonna have another hazy beer. I got the temps down pretty quickly, under 100°F in about 10-15 minutes (it has been rainy the past few days and dropped our ground water temps significantly over the last couple days, what luck!), yet I still needed ice water to drop it below 80°F.

Anyone have any thoughts or input on the lack of trub?

From my experience the majority of trub is from the spent hops, and because you are using bags you are removing this material, you might not be seeing a large break.

For the most part homebrews are hazy, most commercial brewery's will filter or add finings to remove the material that produce the haze. If you cold condition your beer long enough the haze will precipitate out, and the beer will clear, but this can take some time, so you may want to invest in a filtration device.

I never use victory, I usually use a little more MO than you, and I use crystal 55 instead of crystal 40. In other words, your brew is pretty similar to many of mine.
I have a false bottom in my kettle, and use whole hops (without a bag) and a CFC to cool the wort via the spigot in the bottom of the kettle.
Unless I use FWH, I get a substantial amount of hot break at the start of the boil. Most of that gets filtered out by the hops when racking to primary, but I still have a substantial amount of sludge left in the bottom of the kettle (about 1 qt).
Because the CFC cools after leaving the kettle, most of the cold break ends up in the primary. I use a carboy for the primary, and there is always a considerable amount of break material in the bottom.
If you whirlpool and rack carefully, you should be able to leave most of the break material in the kettle. Otherwise, it will make its way into the primary. If you use a carboy for the primary, you will be able to see the trub shortly after racking, but if you use a bucket it will be hidden..

The good news is that if you used WLP002, you will not get hazy beer (unless you cool it to well below the optimum serving temperature of 55 to 57F)

-a.

With 8 pounds of grain, I would not expect a whole heck of a lot of trub. I do not know what you have been brewing or compare this brew to, but I wouldn't worry about it for a moment longer.


TL

ajf said:

I never use victory, I usually use a little more MO than you, and I use crystal 55 instead of crystal 40. In other words, your brew is pretty similar to many of mine.

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Yeah, I was trying to use all British Malt, but my LHBS (which is the only one in town) has a limited variety, for the size of Tucson, I think it is decent, but of course, it could be better, and he is overpriced as well. Having said that, at the very least, I have a place I can go n a pinch to grab what I need. In the not too distant future I will be making a bulk grain purchase to set me up to make many of the styles I like so I can do away with the LHBS other than yeast (for the time being, I will yeast ranch in the future) my goal is to become somewhat self sufficient, without having to make trips to the brewstore before every brewday.

TexLaw said:

With 8 pounds of grain, I would not expect a whole heck of a lot of trub. I do not know what you have been brewing or compare this brew to, but I wouldn't worry about it for a moment longer.
TL

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Thanks TL, thats more of the answer I was looking for, I know I had a grist/grain bill on the lower end of the spectrum, combine that with hop bags, and low protien malts, I figured there probably wouldn't be much trub, but I wasn't certain. I have had more trub in my extract brews than in this AG batch, but this is my first AG and I have never brewed an Ordinary Bitter. My previous extract brews have all been in theOG 1.060 range, this is truly the first "low" gravity brew I have made. Still bubbling the airlock three days in, so I know it ain't done yet. I can't wait, "I'm so excited...I just can't hide it..."

At any rate thanks for the reinforcement, and when I sample it, I will definitely post it!:rockin:

complaining about not having any trub is like complaining about having too many super model girlfriends Let us know how the end product turns out. That will be the indicator.

tdavisii said:

complaining about not having any trub is like complaining about having too many super model girlfriends

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Well, now that you mention it...

This brings up a related question that I've been wondering about. I've seen boils that look like egg drop soup due to the quality of the hot break, but even with a really hot burner boiling the hell out of my wort, I've never been able to produce such a thing. Are certain grains (continental perhaps) the key here, or am I missing something?

thorongil said:

This brings up a related question that I've been wondering about. I've seen boils that look like egg drop soup due to the quality of the hot break, but even with a really hot burner boiling the hell out of my wort, I've never been able to produce such a thing. Are certain grains (continental perhaps) the key here, or am I missing something?

Click to expand...

Good question, I was thinking after this first AG experience that maybe it has something to do with water quality. This being my first AG it was the first time I used Campden tabs to remove chlorine/chloramine, and I used 5.2 stabilizer as some added insurance, I think my water is fairly soft but the last readings I could get from the water company were from 2006, there has been a ton of new construction in my area, which has to make a difference in the mineral levels, alkalinity, pH and hardness.

Yet, when I was partial boiling on the stovetop I noticed lots of that whitish protein like trub from my specialty grains (maybe it was from the DME), which is why I was concerned about the clarity of my wort after cooling and racking my AG wort.

Not this Sunday, but next, I will be bottling my Oxymoron Bitter and washing the yeast, I am interested to see what the bottom of the fermenter will look like this time around.

BTW, I thought I had it bad here in Tucson, Buckeye has the closest to temps to Hell I think.