Gluten Free Beer, made with Barley

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I noticed that too! Really puzzled as to how that works.

EDIT:
:off:
I love TwoBrothers, but wish they'd keep up with their website, newsletter and general customer communication. It's like pulling teeth trying to figure out what's going on over there!
 
Wait isn't it just clarity ferm. Originally, it was supposed to reduce the chill haze, which it does, but then it was also found out that it denatures the gluten protein. This for some is fine and puts the beer under 5 ppm. It overlooks, though, the hordein protein, which is not denatured or at least not fully. I've brewed a barley beer and used clarity ferm but still got a reaction, though much milder. Unless, it's some modified version of clarity ferm or their own enzyme, I don't see too much promise.
 
Wait isn't it just clarity ferm. Originally, it was supposed to reduce the chill haze, which it does, but then it was also found out that it denatures the gluten protein. This for some is fine and puts the beer under 5 ppm. It overlooks, though, the hordein protein, which is not denatured or at least not fully. I've brewed a barley beer and used clarity ferm but still got a reaction, though much milder. Unless, it's some modified version of clarity ferm or their own enzyme, I don't see too much promise.

So here is the thought I had based on what you just posted, what if you used barley but not a great deal of it then used some other things such as sorghum, honey, rice syrup to get the desired OG but the barley even though a smaller amount would give it flavor to offset or cover the unpleasant taste of the sorghum, or not use the sorghum at all and just use honey and rice syrup. Would this not lower the ppm of the finished brew to a level even lower than the 5 ppm?
 
It's still a risk to some people. There are people who are very allergic to even the tiniest amount. If you know your tolerance level, go ahead, but it's harder to know other people's tolerance level.
 
@Tex60 That's a perfect way to make a low gluten beer and definitely would keep the ppm low. I'd use a small amount of barley in conjunction with clarity ferm and you'd have yourself a great beer. But the caveat is that it could not be marketed, which is what these guys seem to be pursuing. Well, if it was marketed as gluten free, it'd would be problematic because people like myself would have a reaction. Soooo, for yourself, I'd go for the sorghum/ tapioca/ brown rice/ buckwheat/ quinoa base, add a small amount barley, brew as normal, and add clarity ferm (just to be safe) before pitching the yeast.
 
I think as far as the industry is concerned, as long as it's below the FDA max ppm, you can label it gluten free. If you're more sensitive, then I'd guess those people are careful anyway.
 
True. I guess my problem is with the standard itself. Why is it called gluten free if it can cause a gluten reaction?
 
Agreed. I'm in favor of a 0 ppm scale. Or at least, when not made with gluten containing ingredients.
Because this is made with gluten ingredients, it would be a low-gluten item to me.
Really though, I'd expect it to be problematic and would likely bring up some action by the gluten free community. Word spreads, it'd hurt sales.

Non-allergenic people who think because it's gluten free means it's healthy, and thus overindulge on gluten free cake wouldn't have an issue.

Then we'd be getting into labeling laws and the push to change them to a stricter value, like the Austrialian low gluten vs gluten free label where barley malt is not allowed, or that we haven't seen the hordein tests via mass spectrometer yet.

Remember, that there was the publication that went out in december.
There were two "low gluten" beers that claimed under 20ppm from an elisa test but showed normal hordeins, as well as 2 experimental horiden deletion beers that rated as containing a significant amount of hordeins. I would want sigificant proof that the hordein count is as low as it claims.
 
Unless the FDA has recently changed their stance, they don't have an allowable ppm. Their standard was no gluten-containing ingredients allowed in an item labelled gluten free, and testing (especially important for those items that are made in shared facilities) was no detectable amount of gluten.

And that's where the problem comes in, because if the test can only detect x ppm, how can you make a standard that says you need to be at < x ppm?

Its a tricky area.
 
And that's where the problem comes in, because if the test can only detect x ppm, how can you make a standard that says you need to be at < x ppm?

Exactly. Although there has been a good deal of progress on this, as I understand it reliable and consistent methods still hover around a 20ppm detection level, which is why that's the FDA's proposed standard.

I know the FDA reopened the proposal comment period last year, but I haven't followed it closely. Has there been any recent news?
 
So is it like Estrella Durra? I have drank a few 4 packs and had no reaction even though it is brewed with barely.
 
Just because someone doesn't have a noticeable external reaction to gluten exposure at a low level doesn't mean intestinal damage isn't occurring from it.

Many celiac's are symptom free (or so they think) but your intestines don't have nerve endings, and thats where the real damage ocurrs. My wife found out because she had a routine endoscopy, then blood tests confirmed it.

I'd suggest celiac's avoid "treated" barley even if it's supposed to be gluten free. Only time (and expensive exams and tests) can confirm that it really has no effect on celiacs. People used to think Sweet N' Low and smoking were good for you too.
 
Well I dont have celiacs disease. I had a lot of the symptoms but all those tests came back negative. But I do get a reaction when I have gluten- I guess I am ok at small amounts tho.
 
I've actually brewed 2 gluten reduced beers, and I am fairly sensitive to gluten. I'll post my full experience soon, but so far its not good - something more needs to be done to a gluten-reduced beer, to cleave hordeins/prolamins (and I'm trying to figure out what). Clarex by itself (even if you use up to 10ml) is not enough to prevent what I call "minor long term reactions", which in my case was: digestive degradation (more trips to bathroom, less "solidity"), general tiredness/fatigue, and itchy bumps were showing up on my head/neck. The whole PPM argument is moot - the test doesn't detect hordeins, but your intestine will - it just doesn't wage thermonuclear war on them, like with gluten.
 
Indeed, I agree. Clarex is a step in the right direction but not the complete path there. I know that doing protein rests, etc during brewing and lagering helps to reduce the gluten. Still though, it's only a piece of the puzzle. At this point in time, the more sensitive of us need to brew with gluten free grains, while the lucky, less sensitive can experiment. Please though do not pass the beer off to a celiac friend, telling them it is okay to drink. Hopefully someone can develop an enzyme that denatures gluten, hordeins, prolamins, and the lot of other reaction causing protein. Whoever does so successfully will be a rich man/ woman.
 
Just learned about this topic and found the thread. I have comments about some of the comments posted here:

Whatever enzyme they're using must be a protease. Otherwise it wouldn't do what they claim.

I would like to see White Labs testing validation. Any lab can test for something, but unless their methods are validated it's meaningless. Also, i wonder if Two Brothers qualified White Labs as a lab. My guess is they didn't because they don't have to.

There is no such thing as 0 PPM. All labs have a limit of detection. It might be 0.01 PPM, but you can never claim absolute zero. While negative at 0.01 PPM, it might test positive at 0.000000000001 PPM.

The FDA "standard" for testing verification is >20 PPM.

I have a problem with calling a material gluten free if the starting source material contains gluten. Just because the intact gluten molecule is not present doesn't mean that certain gluten segments won't cause a gluten reaction to susceptible people.

For the record, I am not gluten intolerant or a celiac.
 
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