dry vs. liquid yeast
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Modern dry yeast is pretty darn good. It still has a bit of a stigma attached to it from the past when the techniques were not as good for drying it, and it was somewhat of an inferior product to liquid yeast. Today's dry yeast is much better and can make beers just as good as the equivalent liquid yeasts. Many keep dry yeast in the fridge as a backup if they get a batch of liquid yeast that has gone bad or won't start. It stores longer, and is usually less expensive than liquid yeast.
The biggest advantage to liquid yeast is the much greater variety of strains available which gives you more customization in the flavor profile.
The biggest advantage to liquid yeast is the much greater variety of strains available which gives you more customization in the flavor profile.
It's recommended to make a starter with liquid, whereas dry yeast can be sprinkled directly into the wort or simply rehydrated with some warm water or wort.
Dry yeast lasts longer on the shelf (meaning, in a fridge) than liquid does.
The only real benefit I personally see from liquid yeasts is that there are generally more varieties available than there is in dry form. If I have a recipe that really needs a special yeast, I use liquid. But, I ferment most things with dry US-05 (which is the dry equivalent of Wyeast 1056 or WLP001).
DirtyPolock
Well-Known Member
+1 on all of the above. In all my education on brewing from this site and a few books that I have read I would definitely agree with the old stigma associated with dry yeast, and the greater variety of liquid yeasts available.
eanmcnulty
Well-Known Member
+1 on the US-05. I needed a Kolsch for my Spotted Cow clone, and had to go with Wyeast Kolsch, but I usually use the dry. Cheaper and less fuss.
crlova2
Well-Known Member
What about rehydrating? Do dry yeasts have instructions on the package for rehyrdrating or is there just a common practice for rehyrdrating all dry yeasts? I am doing a Bell's TH clone and was going to use wyeast 1056 (with starter) but in order to save money I was going to try dry yeast (I guess US-05).
I don't rehydrate my dry yeast. Some people do, and I think it's suggested and explained on the package of US-05, but I just dump the contents of the packet right into the fermenter.
crlova2
Well-Known Member
For your bell's TH clone did you use one or two packets of US-05. How did it turn out? Did you use basically the same recipe from brew365.com?
Bheher
Well-Known Member
I know Nottingham has instructions on the package for rehydrating. Not sure if your are supposed to rehydrate US-05 or just pour it on top.
One packet of dry US-05 is plenty for 5 gallons.
The recipe I used is the clone recipe from BYO magazine, but it's pretty much identical to the one on brew365 or available from Austin Homebrew Supply. The only real difference is some subtle variations in the size of the hop additions and even those only differ by a couple of grams.
I'm pretty sure every variation you find for bell's 2-hearted is just a reprinting of the BYO clone recipe. There's no way multiple individuals came up with the EXACT same grain bill all on their own.
You'll get a lot of mixed opinions on re-hydrating. Many do not do it, just sprinkle the yeast on the wort, and make fine beer. The Mfr's recommend re-hydrating though. The thing is, if you get the temps wrong, you can do more harm then good.
Basically in the first seconds of re-hydrating the yeast cell walls can not regulate what passes through them, and you can shock and kill some of the colony by dumping directly into beer, or improper re-hydrating. Generally there is enough yeast in a dried yeast packet that this can be overcome by sheer volume of yeast. You can google re-hydrating yeast and get a more in depth explanation.
I generally rehydrate per the Mfr directions and add a bit of go-ferm. It's not really that hard and only adds a few minutes to the process. As I said however, many do not re-hydrate and make fine beer.
Basically in the first seconds of re-hydrating the yeast cell walls can not regulate what passes through them, and you can shock and kill some of the colony by dumping directly into beer, or improper re-hydrating. Generally there is enough yeast in a dried yeast packet that this can be overcome by sheer volume of yeast. You can google re-hydrating yeast and get a more in depth explanation.
I generally rehydrate per the Mfr directions and add a bit of go-ferm. It's not really that hard and only adds a few minutes to the process. As I said however, many do not re-hydrate and make fine beer.
Yeah... nottingham is the other dry yeast that I sometimes use. I know one of the two has rehydrating instructions on it, but couldn't remember which one.
eanmcnulty
Well-Known Member
I rehydrate US-05 in a cup of boiled (sterilized) water, that I have let cool to 85F-105F. I do that about 1/2 to 1 hour before pitching. I have not ever just dumped it in. That would be easier, and I am always looking to make things easier. Has anyone ever had a problem dumping the yeast in to the fermenter without re-hydrating?
I'm really interested in knowing, because that would be easier.
I'm really interested in knowing, because that would be easier.
I use S-04 and US-05 almost exclusively. I rehydrate the packs before pitching.
Pivovar_Koucky
Well-Known Member
I do like S-04 and US-05, but they really aren't that much cheaper than liquid. Also, I haven't used the fermentis lager yeast I usually go with white labs into a starter for lagers. Anyone had any good/bad results with saflager?
rockfish42
Well-Known Member
I've done a couple of steam beers with the S-23, seems to work well. I strongly suggest rehydrating, the one batch I did pitching directly onto the wort gave me some yeast bite I didn't experience with s-04 or s-05
i've heard that making a starter with dry yeast is niot a good idea and can even hurt the supplies that the producer build in, but a buddy of mine makes VERY good beers with dry yeast and then making a starter.
Agree with the difference that most have stated but with one other OPINION. Dry yeast can/are cleeaner and add less tates to the final product.
Agree with the difference that most have stated but with one other OPINION. Dry yeast can/are cleeaner and add less tates to the final product.
crlova2
Well-Known Member
What about nottingham? Anyone have good experience with it? It seems to be some of the cheapest that I can find around me at $1.39 for 11 grams while the US-05 was $3.45. Is US-05 worth the extra money in anyone's experience?
samc
Well-Known Member
I used Saflager 34/70 dry and was somewhat disapointed in the end product. Too fruity for me and I kept it dead on the recommended fermenting temp.
ChshreCat
Well-Known Member
S04 and 05 cost me 3 bucks a pack. The same type of liquid yeast costs me 7 bucks for a smack pack. If you add in the DME to do a starter to get the same cell count as the ready-to-pitch dry yeast, then it's even more. If your LHBS is charging you as much for dry yeast as you pay for liquid, they're ripping you off!
Bheher
Well-Known Member
In my experience Nottingham is good, it gives very little to no flavor. So I like to use it in IPAs. I have seen that the Nottingham has a high attenuation even when starting at high gravity (1.080 or so).
I use S-04 or 05 for a brown ale or other beers that I want to finish around 1.015 or higher.
there waas a couple of batches of the nottingham that people had issues wiht getting good atenuation. Not sure if that iis a consisitant issues. Maybe its cheaper for a reason.
Liquid yeast gives you a wider variety of strains to choose from, that's the main reason. I really don't care for any of the dry strains other than Windsor - but I really do like Windsor a lot. K-97 is decent, too, but hard to find. S-04 - I used to like it, until I realized that it tastes like ass. Nottingham and US-05 attenuate too much for my tastes, and are just plain boring - not enough character. Munich and WB-06 haven't produced decent results for me, and none of the lager strains make a beer that's even close to as good as the liquid lager strains - they're just too estery. I haven't tried T-58 or S-33.
Bottom line is that if you're looking for a clean, american-style ale yeast, you can use a dry yeast. S-04, Nottingham and US-05 will all make very clean, very dry beers when fermented cool. But they're lacking in interesting character - the character that they DO have when used on the warm side is kind of muddy and uninteresting, if not downright nasty (I'm looking at you, S-04).
But if you prefer something with a little more character - even something that's subtle and suitable for clean, american-style ales - look to the wider selection of liquid strains.
Bottom line is that if you're looking for a clean, american-style ale yeast, you can use a dry yeast. S-04, Nottingham and US-05 will all make very clean, very dry beers when fermented cool. But they're lacking in interesting character - the character that they DO have when used on the warm side is kind of muddy and uninteresting, if not downright nasty (I'm looking at you, S-04).
But if you prefer something with a little more character - even something that's subtle and suitable for clean, american-style ales - look to the wider selection of liquid strains.
My first year of brewing I only used liquid strains because Palmer and other books I had read said it was superior, although noting that dry has made strides.
After reading so much on this board from people claiming that dry was just as good as liquid I pretty much started using dry strains exclusively for a while, mostly because it was so convenient.
Recently (last year or so) I have abandoned my former dry staple, s-o5, due to repeated sub-par batches. I used saflager once for an american pilsner that did not turn out well, and s-04, as mentioned by an earlier post, does not produce an ale of adequate english character at all.
On the flip side I have been using whitelabs kolsch yeast for an assortment of german and american ales and have found it to be great and versatile.
I don't see myself using dry yeast again; its only advantage, anyway, was convenience.
that said, everyone swears by s-05 in particular, and I don't know why my experience has been atypical.
After reading so much on this board from people claiming that dry was just as good as liquid I pretty much started using dry strains exclusively for a while, mostly because it was so convenient.
Recently (last year or so) I have abandoned my former dry staple, s-o5, due to repeated sub-par batches. I used saflager once for an american pilsner that did not turn out well, and s-04, as mentioned by an earlier post, does not produce an ale of adequate english character at all.
On the flip side I have been using whitelabs kolsch yeast for an assortment of german and american ales and have found it to be great and versatile.
I don't see myself using dry yeast again; its only advantage, anyway, was convenience.
that said, everyone swears by s-05 in particular, and I don't know why my experience has been atypical.
Schnitzengiggle
Well-Known Member
This question continues to come up.
There are some great dry yeasts, but you can't duplicate some styles without using liquid cultures. For instance, Hefeweizen, and Belgian beers require liquid cultures to create an accurate representation of the style.
I'm sorry...you can't use S-04, S-05, or Notty to make a dubbel, triple, quad, or hefe. It just isn't feasable.
So if you are looking for a clean fermenting yeast for a hoppy style, or maybe a fruit beer, some dry yeasts are great.
If you desire to brew certain english, german, belgian styles, as well as lagers, you must have the right yeast, and liquid cultures will give you the diversity required.
There are some great dry yeasts, but you can't duplicate some styles without using liquid cultures. For instance, Hefeweizen, and Belgian beers require liquid cultures to create an accurate representation of the style.
I'm sorry...you can't use S-04, S-05, or Notty to make a dubbel, triple, quad, or hefe. It just isn't feasable.
So if you are looking for a clean fermenting yeast for a hoppy style, or maybe a fruit beer, some dry yeasts are great.
If you desire to brew certain english, german, belgian styles, as well as lagers, you must have the right yeast, and liquid cultures will give you the diversity required.
Pivovar_Koucky
Well-Known Member
Fruity lager? Yuck. I believe I will stick with liquid for my lagers.
Pivovar_Koucky
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I usually expect to pay $3-4 for S-04 or US-05 and $6-7 for liquid. Still cheaper than liquid, but not as cheap as most dry yeast ($2 or less). That said, I use S-04 and US-05 for my pale ales pretty much exclusively.
My LHBS used to buy dried chico yeast in bulk and package it up into little mylar packets and sell it for about $1.50. But, they stopped doing that and just sell the pink US-05 packets now, for something like $3.50.
That kind of irritated me.
That kind of irritated me.
I used S-23 for a lager and it was ANYTHING but fruity. It came out less fruity than the liquid yeast I used (not at all what I was expecting). I did a split-batch experiment with dry and liquid and attempted to removed all variables but one: the yeast.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/lager-yeast-experiment-s-23-vs-wyeast-2124-a-183454/
Ever since really reading up on HBT about the pro's/cons of each, I tend to use dr y now. Less expensive and I like the results (S04, S04, Notty). I only use the liquids if my recipie was originally brewed with it to keep consistancy, or if I am brewing a special style.
Also, with the dry yeasts I don't have to worry as much about them being shipping in this horrible Baltimore summer heat of 95+ degrees.
Also, with the dry yeasts I don't have to worry as much about them being shipping in this horrible Baltimore summer heat of 95+ degrees.
crlova2
Well-Known Member
Which is better for an all centennial IPA. US-05 or 04? I have never used either. Also for some reason when I try to get on their website my computer says it is being attacked so I can't read the manufactures specs.
Special Hops
Well-Known Member
I use dry probably 90% of the time.
Liquid is too expensive - only time I use it is if I am brewing a Hefeweizen or something that is not available dry.
Liquid is too expensive - only time I use it is if I am brewing a Hefeweizen or something that is not available dry.
All preference. I have used both. Most of the time I use s-05 since its close to wyeast 1056.
eanmcnulty
Well-Known Member
Mmmmm! All Centennial IPA's are awesome! Use US-05.
