buttery-smelling foamy wort (no yeast yet)

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Tall_Yotie

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Hey all,

Back with a odd paranoid question. Details following the question.

My cooled wort after 36 hours, as I was pitching the yeast, had a buttery sweet smell. It also foamed like made (white thick good-head foam) when I stirred it. I have never really noticed an odor from my wort before, so was concerned. Bucket was sanitized, was poured in hot and cooled in there, kept sealed up while it was cooling to pitching temp.

I did an all grain batch for a Kolsch:

10lb German Pilsner
1/2 Munich

90min mash at 150F
OG: 10.55
Batch size: 5.0g

I had to wait 2 days days before pitching the yeast, so I tossed it into the plastic fermentation bucket (was still hot from the kettle, let it cool in there to 60F) and drove it 40 miles to my apartment. 36 hours later I added the starter. Starter done with DME did have a somewhat similar smell, but I thought that may be due to the yeast as it is supposed to be sulfry.

Is this just from the sugars sitting around doing nothing, and should turn out fine in the end?

Thanks for any info/thoughts/eye-rolls!
 
How well did you keep the wort secure from airborne nasties for that day and a half? Maybe some wild yeast made their way in and it's diacetyl that you're smelling. Possible?

Also, how long did you boil that wort? You'll get quite a bit of DMS out of pilsner malt.
 
I tossed the hot wort into my primary fermenter (sanitized plastic bucket), tightly secured the lid (sanitized), and put in the airlock (sanitized, no water in lock though as it was being transported). Was just like I had pitched the yeast in it, but no water in the lock as it would suck the water in due to the cooling.

Wort was boiled for 60 minutes. Lid was put on to keep it safe and clean, 10 minutes later it was in the bucket.
 
Buttery smell and flavor can be a diactyl indicator. Seems like this is too early to be picking it up though.
 
Buttery smell and flavor can be a diactyl indicator. Seems like this is too early to be picking it up though.

That is what my research said, but yes, I thought it came from either infections or lag time in fermentation. Now, I did technically lag it by not putting yeast in it, but I don't think that makes much sense.

The wort tasted alright (drank a sip from the hydrometer), but had that sweet butter smell. Hopefully the yeast will just take care of that, as well as time.

Any more thoughts from y'all?
 
why didn't you cool the wort before you put it in the primary?

It doesn't matter at this point, nor is it really helpful, to reflect back on why I didn't cool it. But it is because I didn't have my chiller with me as I was brewing elsewhere, and I didn't have space in the car for it.

Besides, I didn't think/know it wad going to cause any issue, and I had at least 24 hours before I got back to where I could temperature control the brew.

I am not looking how to avoid this in the future (I know how), I wanted to know what happened and if I should be concerned.
 
Are the buckets rated to take boiling wort? Maybe they leached out some funky material.

I am uncertain. The bucket is from the LHBS meant fermentation, so I assume it is HDPE, and should be just fine for high temps. Those things are used to hold jam and other food goods that are damned hot when they are packaged, so I assume it is fine. The smell also isn't what I would say is plastic-like. Really screams the diacetyl, but I can't see how I got any yeasties in there before I pitched my own.
 
no-chill is a valid method, and I see no reason it wouldn't work fine in a properly sanitized bucket. I would have used a blow-off tube into sanitizer instead of an airlock, though; you really could have gotten an infection through the open airlock, and a long blow-off tube won't allow the sanitizer to suck in. But I can't see how an infection would make a noticeable diacetyl aroma that fast.

Maybe Skaggz is right and it's DMS? I've never made a pilsner, but everyone recommends 90 minute boils.

My guess: it'll be fine, don't worry so much.
 
...Maybe Skaggz is right and it's DMS? I've never made a pilsner, but everyone recommends 90 minute boils.

My guess: it'll be fine, don't worry so much.

Alright, THAT is why the recipe wanted a 90min boil! I cut that down to 60 minutes because I was already too high for the OG and I didn't want to increase it even further.

And thanks, I figure it will be fine, will let the yeasties do their thing and hopefully break it all down. Is there anything I can do to promote further removal of DMS at this point, or do I just let it ride?
 
hmmm, I've brewed 4 kolsch's this year and they were all 60 minute boils using pilsner malt. I never had any DMS problems.

Well, turns out that I did. I figure the cooling is what got to me in the end.

If it doesn't start to clear up in 2 weeks then it isn't really worth the time and storage space to bottle it all up.
 
What temp are you fermenting at?

If you've been fermenting at a relatively cool temp the whole time.... say... low 60's... or lower, give it a full two weeks or so and then warm the fermenter up a bit... to maybe the low 70's for two days. It's a basic diacytl rest and should clear it.
 
Yup, it is fermenting now at 62-64F. I will give it that long and then pull it out of the fridge and let it warm up in the ambient. Thanks for the confidence boost!
 
The butter-smell isn't so worrisome, its the foamy part that sticks in my mind. It really shouldn't be foamy; I solely no-chill in buckets and kettles. I've not let them go for 36 hours, but after 24 hours, I normally have a clear wort with break in it. Maybe a bit of scum on the top (like islands) but nothing foamy. I'm curious how this will work out for you.
 
It wasn't foamy until I stirred it. Looked like normal wort until then. I will give an update when it is all done, be it in the bottles and tasting awesome or down the drains making fish drunk.
 
I'm not sure the problem is really DMS. The boil time is a little risky but a 60 minute boil vs a 90 doesnt mean you WILL have a DMS problem. 90 minutes is just a safer bet. Butter is diacytl. If you've been fermenting in the low 60's without a diacytl rest... I would willing to bet its an easy fix. Just do the rest. Bump it up to 70 for two days and then crash cool it.
 
Sorry for the lack of update. The smell did not go away after a week and a half, and it was stinking up not just the mini-fridge it was in but our apartment. For both the comfort of myself and my wife I dumped it. Yes, it MIGHT have settled out, but the cheap grain bill was not worth dealing with the smell and chancing a turn-around on the brew.

Now I know at least that I need to do a 90min boil and a quick cooling when using pilsner malt.
 
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