1BBL Brutus 10 Electric Brewery Build

This thread will loosely follow a 1BBL brewery that I am constructing, one of several. Though some of the design specifics are flexible, much of the design and parts list are chosen.

Based on:

(3) Blichmann 55 Gallon Boilermakers
(2) LG 5-MD-HC 1050 GPH Pumps
22,000W of Heating Power (11,000 RIMS and 11,000 BK)
BCS 460 Control
3/4" Plumbing

Rolling 304 SS Stand:
1.5" x 11GA box tubing with mill finish, TIG welded with an HF wash. 84"L x 30"D x 20"H

NEMA 4X Electrical Box with (8) water tight connections.

(4) 500LB EACH 4" Casters

It is a really simple build, no re-inventing the wheel. Simple control interface, no wireless capability, trusted Brutus 10 design and enough power to start a batch while boiling the first. System requirement is 120A, supplied by (2) 60A Spa Panels, each panel powering one half of the system through ONE NEMA 4X box and two separate distribution blocks/circuits.

BCS temp. readouts at the MLT outlet, the RIMS outlet, BK outlet and plate chiller outlet.

It will be capable of boiling one batch while starting another (this is the reason the stand will be rated for nearly 2000lbs)
100 pounds of grain/834 pounds of water/600 pounds of stand

Each 1BBL batch will require about 28kWh, at a cost of $4.20 per session.
33kWh is equal to 112,600 BTUs
With a really efficient gas burner (30%) you would have to burn up 17 POUNDS of propane gas during the same session.
Not to mention the issues with venting all of that CO...

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willynilly said:

Everything is ok... just not feeling the HB bug anymore really.

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I thought you said you were tired of brewing?

Sawdustguy said:

Everything is ok... just not feeling the HB bug anymore really.

I thought you said you were tired of brewing?

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I am not brewing, I actually sold my freezer, kegs (6 of which were full) and my kegerator is next. I am out of the brewing business. I dont own any kegs or fermentors to even make beer. I actually dont even DRINK beer anymore.

Subscribed, we're doing almost the same thing. Eager to see how other people are approaching this.

MikeRLynch said:

Subscribed, we're doing almost the same thing. Eager to see how other people are approaching this.

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I am trying to keep it simple, the controls will be 100% BCS computer based. No toggles, no little flashing lights, only the ALARM settings in the BCS to indicate state changes. No wireless capability like the last, only the 100% reliable Cat6 cable.

The pumps were obvious upgrades, March 809s would be an insult, the 3-MD-HC LG pumps would have been OK. But I think the 5-MD-HC pumps will be more capable and offer a little more flexibility for transfers and improve whirlpool performance if that is a desire of the user. They are only slightly more expensive, in the $300 range.

I have experience building out BCS460 control boxes for applications like this, so that part again is pretty standard.

Looking forward to posting some photos when the time comes and some general thoughts.

This is not meant to be a full fledged wire by wire build thread. I do want it to track the progress and general design of the system and offer some ideas to others who are looking to step into this volume of brewing.

What size tubing/hose will you be using with those pumps? In a quick search I found one with 1/2" MNPT outlet. Is 1/2" enough flow?

Excellent. I had hoped for a build thread.

pickles said:

What size tubing/hose will you be using with those pumps? In a quick search I found one with 1/2" MNPT outlet. Is 1/2" enough flow?

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The 5-MD-HC is 1/2" output, but it is still rated at 1050 GPH. I have seen 1BBL production systems running March 809s, this is MUCH faster. I have some 3-MD-HC pumps on my current system with 1/2" outlets and they are at least 2x as fast as the March 809, with the same outlet size. The 5-MD-HC is two steps up from the 3-MD-HC.

March 809: 270 GPH, 4.3' MAX HEAD
LG 3-MD-HC: 750 GPH, 21.9' MAX HEAD
LG 5-MD-HC: 1050 GPH, 27.5' MAX HEAD

IMHO the 5-MD-HC will suffice.

jfkriege said:

Excellent. I had hoped for a build thread.

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This is not a build thread, really. I will share the details with you Joshua, as you are a trusted friend... you eat pizza here for cripes sakes.

This is an OVERVIEW thread. No need to get too technical up in here. No wiring diagrams, no "how to install this" tutorials. Simply an overview.

What will you use for high temperature pump heads on the LG pumps?

terrazza said:

What will you use for high temperature pump heads on the LG pumps?

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The ones that they come with.

MikeRLynch said:

Subscribed, we're doing almost the same thing. Eager to see how other people are approaching this.

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There is a guy on ProBrewer selling STANDS for 1BBL brewing STARTING at $5000. Just the stand, burners and a couple PIDs. Youd need to add $3-$4k for kettles, upgrade pumps and plumbing/fittings.

I wont say what I will have into this, but $5000 would go a LONG way to making this system operational.

I have the parts list finished, and totalled with labor (welder)

But, for those that do not want to DIY, it is a big start to building a 1BBL system.

Going 100% stainless again?

Have you put any consideration into building a system with hot water on demand (eliminate the HLT)? With that kind of wattage you could have a pretty good flow rate with water coming out at any desired temperature, controlled by the BCS460 - just want to get other's opinions on this. Interested in seeing what you come up with.

Baja_Brewer said:

Going 100% stainless again?

Have you put any consideration into building a system with hot water on demand (eliminate the HLT)? With that kind of wattage you could have a pretty good flow rate with water coming out at any desired temperature, controlled by the BCS460 - just want to get other's opinions on this. Interested in seeing what you come up with.

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i'm interested in the on demand replacing the HLT as well, maybe even simpler and just using the BK element to heat the sparge and mash water.

Are you going to become a vendor?

Baja_Brewer said:

Going 100% stainless again?

Have you put any consideration into building a system with hot water on demand (eliminate the HLT)? With that kind of wattage you could have a pretty good flow rate with water coming out at any desired temperature, controlled by the BCS460 - just want to get other's opinions on this. Interested in seeing what you come up with.

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I have already built a system where this was a consideration... well, one that has the power to do it at at acceptable flow for sparge. I know others have done it too (RIMS) and used it for on demand water. This is just a standard build, nothing fancy. My Brutus 20 has a 9000W RIMS and that is plenty capable of heating sparge water on the fly.

Yes, 100% stainless (stand, fasteners and corrosion resistant NEMA4X wiring box)

defenestrate said:

i'm interested in the on demand replacing the HLT as well, maybe even simpler and just using the BK element to heat the sparge and mash water.

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How would you sparge if the sparge water is in the BK? If you cross circulate, you can do it, that is what my Brutus 20 does.

Sacdan said:

Are you going to become a vendor?

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No, why would I do that?

You said you were building several of them.

Sacdan said:

You said you were building several of them.

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Yes, but a vendor that does not make me.

I am merely a friend of a few people with real money, doing a favor.

willynilly said:

How would you sparge if the sparge water is in the BK? If you cross circulate, you can do it, that is what my Brutus 20 does.

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Heat the mash water, pump to MT, heat sparge, pump to HLT.

Sorry I meant using a three vessel system or a two with the on demand.

willynilly said:

Yes, but a vendor that does not make me.

I am merely a friend of a few people with real money, doing a favor.

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There are plenty of HBT members here that have "real money" to spend also, please don't forget them.

defenestrate said:

Heat the mash water, pump to MT, heat sparge, pump to HLT.

Sorry I meant using a three vessel system or a two with the on demand.

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You could do what you propose on a three vessel system, with heating only in the BK, but you lose a couple big things.

#1, you cannot provide temp control for the MLT through a HERMS coil, or any other means.
#2, you cannot be starting a new batch (mash) on one end of the system while you are currently boiling on the other end, because your only heating elements are in the BK.

This system will allow for the use of a HERMS circuit to provide temp. control to the mash, and it will allow the user to begin a new mash while they are boiling the previous batch.

My Brutus 20 is capable of on demand water heating with 9000W available, though I have never used it in that capacity. The issue is that I cannot use tap water to brew, and many people do build thier water.... so their sparge water source will be distilled, and have to be pumped from somewhere, like a third vessel... then you are back to a three vessel system.

Placing high wattage in the HLT and the BK and temp monitoring in (4) locations is not necessary to make beer, but it adds versatility. I dont want to embark on something of this magnitude, and eliminate versatility.

Riddle me this...

If Little Giant and March pump heads are not made from FDA approved materials, how do small breweries use their pumps? Doesnt the FDA want to see that components in contact with your wort are FDA approved materials?

Looking at getting the March TE-5S-MD pumps now, at a cost of $1600 each... ouch.

Meh... never mind...

The dude buying this rig from me decided that he would drop the requirement for me to include pumps using FDA approved materials once he saw the price increase. Soooo, the 5-MD-HC pumps it is! He is accepting all responsibility for any future issues with mfg. compatibility.

Honestly, the mfg. stated that although not labeled food grade, these pumps have been pumping wort for many years without a problem.

That was almost a $3000 glitch

willynilly said:

Meh... never mind...

The dude buying this rig from me decided that he would drop the requirement for me to include pumps using FDA approved materials once he saw the price increase. Soooo, the 5-MD-HC pumps it is! He is accepting all responsibility for any future issues with mfg. compatibility.

Honestly, the mfg. stated that although not labeled food grade, these pumps have been pumping wort for many years without a problem.

That was almost a $3000 glitch

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"GLITCH" in big letters to match the big outlay for FDA pumps.

willynilly; throw some of this build projects with photos up on the forum would ya when your ready? I have a connection with four 55 gallon SS barrels my name is on them at the moment plus free. Not for my home brewing expansion or else the "War Department" (wifey) would kill me going this big plus the cost.

Will do BB.

Yeah, I mean I am bound a little on this build by the end users requirements. When they said FDA approved materials... I was like, easy... err except for pumps.

After talking it over with them and the Mfg., they have decided to use the LG 5- pumps and take responsibility for their use.

The entire build has to be supplied to the user with a FULL parts list, list of materials that will come into contact with the product, dimensions, warranties, BCS training provided, invoices (so that product discounts are passed to the end user). I am talking a three ring binder of information detailing the components and construction.

Should be a fun build!

Sounds more like your offering an item to the Feds, requiring all specs amd operating manuals plus your date of birth LOL! Cool when your ready to post and you got it all tied up to present. Above reply your a non bier drinker, what happened? Wife or medical reasons? One never gets tired of drinking bier.
JMO, the taste for it is always there.

BrewBeemer said:

Sounds more like your offering an item to the Feds, requiring all specs amd operating manuals plus your date of birth LOL! Cool when your ready to post and you got it all tied up to present. Above reply your a non bier drinker, what happened? Wife or medical reasons? One never gets tired of drinking bier.
JMO, the taste for it is always there.

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Actually, not medical and not family related... I really just do not enjoy it anymore. It just sort of happened... I have had about 6 drinks in 6 months.

That's a hefty load. What are the specs of your stand if you don't mind? Will your weldor be going the extra mile this time, and purging the welds on the stand?

willynilly said:

Actually, not medical and not family related... I really just do not enjoy it anymore. It just sort of happened... I have had about 6 drinks in 6 months.

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Sounds like a major burnout or trying too hard for too many years. This is a hobby one must enjoy with no pressure forcing you to brew. I undersand, but keep us posted on this latest project. Thanks bro. Carl.

Again regarding pump heads, I'm in the same boat looking to use the larger pumps, but if and only if the head were ss, and preferably triclamp. Rumorhas it a company called chuggerpumps will carry ss pump heads for the march 809s as early as next week. I'm wondering about machining one down after welding on ss triclamps for the larger pumps.

terrazza said:

Again regarding pump heads, I'm in the same boat looking to use the larger pumps, but if and only if the head were ss, and preferably triclamp. Rumorhas it a company called chuggerpumps will carry ss pump heads for the march 809s as early as next week. I'm wondering about machining one down after welding on ss triclamps for the larger pumps.

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March already makes a pump that flows fast enough, with a SS head, but it is $1600. What March are you looking at using? I would be using the 5- pump from them.

The standard 809 pumps have a flow of 270 GPH at 1' head.

The 5- pumps exceed 1000 GPH at a 1' head.

Once you figure in your resistance, the March 809 flows at about 2 GPM which IMHO is way too slow for something this size. For what these guys are paying, they really deserve fast transfers.

GreenMonti said:

That's a hefty load. What are the specs of your stand if you don't mind? Will your weldor be going the extra mile this time, and purging the welds on the stand?

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Specs are listed in the OP

BrewBeemer said:

Sounds like a major burnout or trying too hard for too many years. This is a hobby one must enjoy with no pressure forcing you to brew. I undersand, but keep us posted on this latest project. Thanks bro. Carl.

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Yeah, I dont know what it is Carl... my wife and I both used to realy love a beer a day... then winter came, and slowly we just stopped drinking period. I dont really miss it to tell you the truth. I sold 8 kegs, a freezer, 100 pounds of malt and about 9 ounces of hops last week. The kegereator is on the chopping block now as I remove all HB remnants from my garage.

I am going to help out a few friends with desires for larger systems who want rolling 1BBL systems based on the BCS control interface and electric heating. Then that may be it for me... recoup my HBing costs from the past 6 years and move on?

The reasons for the Blichmann kettles, other than the customer likes them... they are light weight, which is nice when you are talking about a 55 gallon SS drum. They are pretty, for showcasing the brew rig. They are relatively cheap when you consider the cost of a 55 gallon SS drum... they are basically the same cost, but with thermometers, sight gauges, the stepped bottoms etc...

willynilly said:

Specs are listed in the OP

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The OP says nothing about purging out the welds. How many down supports, ect...

Your stand specs are pretty vague. A 7 foot span using the 1.5" X 1/8" wall will deflect by 1 1/4" in the center with the 2000lbs evenly distributed across it. That's with no center support which, I am sure you plan to do. Given that I am not an engineer I am not sure if you can count the tubing that will be along the bottom as additional wall height to help with deflection. Seeing how this will be on casters and all. It seems to me the load will just be transferred to that tubing. You'll gain some rigidity with the supports connecting them I suppose. If you increase the tubing too 3 X 1 or 1.5 you will only have 1/4" deflection with the same load.

I guess I was trying to be little more specific then you want this thread to be. Sorry. I'll be on the side for the rest of the build.

Take care.