Canning Jar Trub/Yeast Harvester for Conical

Artifishal,

Now I understand. I assumed that the white plastic part that the Nalgene attaches to is removable. I that case, yes, the canning jars will make storage of harvested yeast easier and allows for more flexibility in terms of a wide variety of jar sizes.

Crud! Plastic lids are not water tight. They'd need an O-ring or gasket. Here's what I'm going to test out. If it works I'll duplicate it with some of those eco jar ss lids. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1421883887.668727.jpg

It's upside down in the picture just till the silicone dries.

The plan is to attach that small piece of pvc to 1 1/2" pvc pipe that will attach to the valve on the bottom of my conical. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1421884065.709677.jpg

Thoughts?

Artifishal,

As long as you end up with something that doesn't leak, I'd say you're good. If you decide to repeat with a stainless steel Eco Jarz lid, just be careful about the thickness of the gaskets - you'll probably want or need to cut those in half. Based purely on the little bit I read on their website, I'd say that the rings they sell are likely just the normal store bought standard rings. I need to check out different ring solutions that would easily incorporate the thickness of the gasket.

P.S. I don't think your cat is impressed. They rarely are.

Lol about my wife's stupid cats. It (regarding the pic above), didn't work. I didn't like how I had to cut the grate out of it rendering it scratched up (it was a 2" pvc floor drain so it had a grate in it I had to cut out). Plan C tomorrow. It's going to be a thin ring of 2" schedule 80 solvent welded to the outside of the 1 1/2" schedule 40 pvc, so it acts as a lip on the underside of the ball jar lid.

Btw for anyone interested, I ordered some of the Ss ecojars lids and there was no charge for shipping.

Artifishal,

Good luck with Plan C!

All,

Just to be clear, the SS lids come with gaskets - no need to order gaskets separately. However, I do like having a few extras on hand.

And you get two for $1.50 free shipping.

Well, looks like I'll be brewing this weekend so I did a bit of work to prep my conical. I added wheels. This gave me plenty of room for the mason jar. I'm currently doing a final leak test with water. Action photos attached.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1423550266.539058.jpg
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1423550336.687222.jpg

Show off! Just kidding. That is bad ass! Still figuring mine out. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1423792131.362270.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1423792148.284264.jpg

Artifishal,

Looks like you are getting your system figured out. You have a solution you're happy with yet?

If all goes well, I'll have my first real test happening on Monday. I'm brewing a Zombie Dust clone. Since I do BIAB, I'll likely opt for a quart jar at first to catch the trub from the fine grind I use. It's probably over kill, but since I've never actually measured how much trub I get in a batch, I figured it is better to have a jar that is too big than not big enough. I'll replace the quart jar with a pint jar when I pitch the yeast.

I also gathered up some gear to make pressure transfers from conical to keg easy. I'll get some pics of that stuff at some point.

Pliny, are you doing five ish gallon batches? I ask because of the size jars you mentioned. Both times I did ten gal. Batches the yeast cake was over 1500 ml. Just estimating but I think that was about a quart and a half. I am happy with my set up, finally. I purchased a half gallon Ball mason jar for those big batches (it will be a little too big, but like you said, better too big than not enough), and I think I now have every size wide mouth jar they make. The plan is to use small for trub, remove, reinstall a larger, open valve, pitch yeast, sit back and watch the magic.

I'm still questioning whether I should reattach another smaller one (purged with co2), after I remove the the big jar of yeast cake or just leave the valve closed. Thoughts?

Artifishal,

Yes - I'm doing 5 gallon batches. The Zombie Dust recipe is actually 6 gallons. Maybe I should use the larger jar for both the trub and the yeast this first time through just so I have an idea about the volumes that are really needed.

Looks like you have your jar all figured out too. How is it held in place on the valve?

PlinyTheMiddleAged said:

Artifishal,

Yes - I'm doing 5 gallon batches. The Zombie Dust recipe is actually 6 gallons. Maybe I should use the larger jar for both the trub and the yeast this first time through just so I have an idea about the volumes that are really needed.

Looks like you have your jar all figured out too. How is it held in place on the valve?

Click to expand...

Good question. I was wondering if you'd notice that. I'm still waiting for that piece in the mail. It's a 1 1/2" male threaded pvc nipple with a pvc lock but and washer on the under side of the lid.

I don't have a good picture of it. Should be only e few days. I'll post when it comes in if anyone is interested.

I've tested it several different ways. I just found a better way with threaded pieces instead of pvc solvent welded pieces. I'm skeptical about that glue being in contact with my brew.

Well, the conical is filled and the trub catcher is catching trub. I did as suggested - poured the wort in the conical and did not pitch the yeast; instead I let it sit for a day. Here is what I got:
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1424402710.328024.jpg

Not a lot of trub. I emptied the jar (I poured the clear wort back into the conical), sanitized it, and reattached the empty jar. The air went up through the wort and more trub went into the jar. I oxygenated the wort and pitched the yeast.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1424403118.334204.jpg

And here it is after is settled for a day.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1424403182.104462.jpg

Overall, I'm pretty happy with how this is working. I'm currently using a butterfly valve on the outlet. I may try a ball valve on the next batch to see if the trub flows easier.

Butterfly allows more through, no? Anyways that is sweet Pliny! I'm so glad you took those pics and posted I'm motivated to try mine now. I'm rigging one up for small batch testing now. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1424483725.469953.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1424483769.501108.jpg

Btw, why didn't you just use a pint jar for the trub? Oh and was that a five gallon batch? I'm about to do a five and want to know what size jar to use.

Artifishal said:

Butterfly allows more through, no?

Click to expand...

Well, with a ball valve, there is nothing in the path of the flow when the valve is opened. With a butterfly valve, the "flapper" is always in the way - when the butterfly valve is open, the flapper is parallel to the flow but it is still in the flow.

Artifishal said:

Btw, why didn't you just use a pint jar for the trub? Oh and was that a five gallon batch? I'm about to do a five and want to know what size jar to use.

Click to expand...

I used a quart jar on my 6 gallon batch. Since this was my first use, I went big on the jar. Honestly, I'm not sure there's a real downside to having a jar that is slightly too big. The wort in the jar still turns in to beer. So, I'm not losing anything.

Now that my yeast is settling out, I'm glad to have the larger jar.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1424485441.454180.jpg

Artifishal said:

Crud! Plastic lids are not water tight. They'd need an O-ring or gasket. Here's what I'm going to test out. If it works I'll duplicate it with some of those eco jar ss lids. View attachment 250460

It's upside down in the picture just till the silicone dries.

The plan is to attach that small piece of pvc to 1 1/2" pvc pipe that will attach to the valve on the bottom of my conical. View attachment 250461

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

Hopefully that silicone is not going to touch the yeast or wort?
That is not food safe silicone - you need to use aquarium silicone - you can buy it at Petco or some aquarium store. Just trying to help you and those that drink with you...

PlineyTheMiddleAged - I LOVE this idea - thank you for finding the SS tops for these things! Every time I want to harvest my yeast I have to pull the 15.5 sanke inside into the kitchen and then pour it into my harvesting containers and so on... makes quite the mess and "stinks up the house" according to my wife. I am going to solder in two corny disconnect ports on to my tops and will show you when I am done - one will be for flow in - one will be for air/co2 being released. When I am done - I will not have to go into the house for this anymore - and this "should" make my wife happy!

maierhof said:

I am going to solder in two corny disconnect ports on to my tops and will show you when I am done - one will be for flow in - one will be for air/co2 being released. When I am done - I will not have to go into the house for this anymore - and this "should" make my wife happy!

Click to expand...

Maierhof,

I'm curious to see what your idea is. I was thinking about adding a gas post to the lid as well - sounds like for a different purpose though. I'd like it so that I could blow CO2 up through the cone to dislodge trub or yeast allowing it to flow down into the jar. It certainly worked with air prior to pitching yeast.

Notice in the first pic below that there is quite a bit of clear wort above the trub. The second pic is after I swapped in an empty jar - the air in the jar "glub glubbed" up through the wort and I got a jar full of trub. Sure, it settled a lot but all that was settled in the cone before the air blew through it. This was all prior to pitching yeast.

View attachment 258455
View attachment 258456

Seems like the bubbles were good at making things move. But I don't want any air going in my IPAs after the yeast have been working. So, I'd have to bubble CO2 in - hence the addition of a gas post.

Now, what to do with a quart of Safale S-04?

PlinyTheMiddleAged said:

Maierhof,

I'm curious to see what your idea is. I was thinking about adding a gas post to the lid as well - sounds like for a different purpose though.

Click to expand...

Actually this is why I said said 15.5g sanke keg (where I ferment) - I have a tc top with a full bore compression fitting where I stick a 1/2" racking cane in and push the beer out with co2. I typically wait around 24 hrs before I pitch the yeast - this way I can ensure that the temps are just right. Using a SS top like the one you found gives me the idea that I can take some of the trub out before I pitch. This trub will be mostly whirlfloc, grain and hops particulate. If I put two corney disconnects onto the lid - I can have flow into and air out of it. This can be used for taking trub out and also taking yeast out at the end. One good aspect is that the yeasties won't get awoken since they will not be touching oxygen. Another is just ease of use - imho.

Truth be told - I have been thinking about a way to do this for a while - but never had the time to actually devote to developing the idea further. With you doing the leg work on the lids - I have ordered them and I will get to this soon and then let you know.

PlinyTheMiddleAged said:

Notice in the first pic below that there is quite a bit of clear wort above the trub. The second pic is after I swapped in an empty jar - the air in the jar "glub glubbed" up through the wort and I got a jar full of trub. Sure, it settled a lot but all that was settled in the cone before the air blew through it. This was all prior to pitching yeast.

View attachment 258455
View attachment 258456

Seems like the bubbles were good at making things move. But I don't want any air going in my IPAs after the yeast have been working. So, I'd have to bubble CO2 in - hence the addition of a gas post.

Click to expand...

I have to say that this idea is beautifully simple and does the trick. You disturb the conical trub in such a way to make most of it fall into the jar - then replace with air and then oxygenate your beer right before the pitch. Great idea!

If I were you I would be doing a test on how the beer tastes via the air from the jar or does it taste better with air from an o2 stone at the right length for your volume of beer. I would love to hear how that test proves out - probably no taste differential - but you could see it in the FG difference probably.

If I move to conicals - this is definitely the way I will be capturing trub and yeast for sure!

PlinyTheMiddleAged said:

Now, what to do with a quart of Safale S-04?

Click to expand...

=;> Make more beer?!

maierhof said:

Actually this is why I said said 15.5g sanke keg (where I ferment) - I have a tc top with a full bore compression fitting where I stick a 1/2" racking cane in and push the beer out with co2. I typically wait around 24 hrs before I pitch the yeast - this way I can ensure that the temps are just right. Using a SS top like the one you found gives me the idea that I can take some of the trub out before I pitch. This trub will be mostly whirlfloc, grain and hops particulate. If I put two corney disconnects onto the lid - I can have flow into and air out of it. This can be used for taking trub out and also taking yeast out at the end. One good aspect is that the yeasties won't get awoken since they will not be touching oxygen. Another is just ease of use - imho.

Click to expand...

Ah! Now I'm on the same page with you. Looking forward to seeing what you end up with.

maierhof said:

If I were you I would be doing a test on how the beer tastes via the air from the jar or does it taste better with air from an o2 stone at the right length for your volume of beer. I would love to hear how that test proves out - probably no taste differential - but you could see it in the FG difference probably.

Click to expand...

I'm not counting on a jar full of air to provide enough O2 to make the yeast happy. What I did was to attach the emptied jar, let it refill with trub, add yeast, and drop in an O2 stone for about a minute of pure O2.

maierhof said:

=;> Make more beer?!

Click to expand...

An excellent idea! I'll soon have quite a bank of yeasts to choose from.

Just curious with all that yeast do you plan on a yeast starter? Or just pitch what's needed. This is a great idea,I will be ordering lids.
Cheers, Joe

PlinyTheMiddleAged said:

Ah! Now I'm on the same page with you. Looking forward to seeing what you end up with.

Click to expand...

I will post here when I am done. Count on it being about a month unfortunately - I had shoulder reconstruction 3 months ago and was fine until I picked up my boil kettle as I was cleaning it the old way - it is going to be a few weeks until I can put pressure on it again...

PlinyTheMiddleAged said:

I'm not counting on a jar full of air to provide enough O2 to make the yeast happy. What I did was to attach the emptied jar, let it refill with trub, add yeast, and drop in an O2 stone for about a minute of pure O2.

Click to expand...

Excellent - nice to hear this!

PlinyTheMiddleAged said:

An excellent idea! I'll soon have quite a bank of yeasts to choose from.

Click to expand...

I love harvesting yeast almost as much as I love mixing them up to see what I come up with! I started playing with yeast mixes back when I was in my sourdough bread phase... unfortunately beer has eclipsed that hobby =:>

jcorni said:

Just curious with all that yeast do you plan on a yeast starter? Or just pitch what's needed. This is a great idea,I will be ordering lids.
Cheers, Joe

Click to expand...

With that much yeast, I'm not sure I need a starter. I suppose I could fill half pint jars and pitch one of those in a batch. I guess I should figure out how to figure out how much yeast I have.

Holy Shiznit - getting all the parts for this thing was expensive!
I just spent around $120 for:
6 x Tank Post & Dip Tube Nipple - Weld-in-Place - Stainless Steel (TankNipple-WIP 15C07103ih) $26.58
3 x Cornelius & AEB - Spartan - Super Champion. Gas IN (TankPlug-CorneliusGAS-15C07115IH) $29.55
3 x Cornelius & AEB - Spartan - Super Champion. Liquid OUT (TankPlug-CorneliusLIQ-15C07116IH) $29.55
3 x Diptube - Liq out - Firestone/Spartan Straight (DiptubeStrght-5gal - 15C07129IH) $33.75

My idea is to have a corny disconnect post attached twice on each lid one gas one line w/ diptube - then attach my line tube from the fermenter into the liquid side of this lid into a half gallon ball jar and use a pressure release gauge from morebeer that I use during transfers on the gas side to take the o2 out of the jar and prevent the exploding jar trick.

I will use this method after one day of waiting for the temps to be just right before I pitch and then I will take out as much trub as I can (and of course a little wort too =:<) and I then pitch the yeast in my 15.5g sanke (10g batch). After the cold crash I will take out the yeast before I transfer the beer to the serving keg via the same method. This method should be great! Thank you for finding these lids!! Yeast transfer w/ no mess now!!!

I will post as I do it - or did you want me to start my own thread? I think I might do that to leave you guys room to talk...

Great idea! Maybe I missed something but where do I find these stainless lids? I'm ready to rock on this one!

John

paguy,

Here you go (from Post #9):
http://www.ecojarz.com/products/3-pack-reusable-stainless-steel-jar-lids/

I harvested yeast the other day prior to dry hopping. Easy peasy - just detach the mason jar and pour yeast into a clean, sanitized fresh jar.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1425615367.286157.jpg

But, you don't really even have to do that. I saved 8 oz of yeast. I could have just put a lid on the quart jar - I just don't have a need for a quart of S-04.

Saturday, I pressure transfer in to a CO2 filled keg. No oxygen since pitching yeast. I'm looking forward to a nice IPA in another week or so.

Cheers!

Thanks Pliny! One more piece to the puzzle. I'll be fermenting in no time.

Just a quick follow up on bottling...

Did a pressure transfer from conical to keg on Saturday - a few lessons learned to address next time I do that (like pull the relief valve on the CO2 purged keg prior to hooking the beer transfer line up to the conical).

Anyway, based on the amount of yeast that was in the bottom of the conical, I'd say (at least for this beer) that a quart jar was just about perfect. There was probably only about a quarter cup of yeast left.

I also have to figure out how to deal with dry hops. I just tossed them in the conical un bagged so I ended up with some hop particulate in the keg. Options would be to bag the hops or to attach a CO2 purged jar to give the hops a place to settle. I'm leaning towards the second option.

So far so good!

I find that hops from dry hopping do more floating and suspending than they do settling out. I'd bag them.

it seems that you could add a filter underneath the ss lid and put the hops in the mason jar, just connecting it a third time. That would probably be the cleanest way to do it no?

nacho2100 said:

it seems that you could add a filter underneath the ss lid and put the hops in the mason jar, just connecting it a third time. That would probably be the cleanest way to do it no?

Click to expand...

I really like this idea, but I think that most of the hoppiness would remain in the canning jar. Since the hops could only get to the beer in the conical through the small opening between the jar and the conical, I'd guess that you wouldn't get the full benefit of the dry hops. That's a really good idea though.

Artifishal said:

I find that hops from dry hopping do more floating and suspending than they do settling out. I'd bag them.

Click to expand...

I'll probably end up going this route. Put some stainless steel washers in a hop bag along with the hops and suspend the hop bag in the beer using dental floss. I'd get decent exposure of the entire volume of beer to the suspended hops but still keep the hop particulate contained.

Just a note. I bought 3 of the ecojars lids. Not too happy with the fit. I was able to pull the top off after tightening it. Don't feel secure at all with that. I do love the idea though with the mason jars. If I could only get better jar bands it would work. I'm determined to make this work.

paguy said:

Just a note. I bought 3 of the ecojars lids. Not too happy with the fit. I was able to pull the top off after tightening it. Don't feel secure at all with that. I do love the idea though with the mason jars. If I could only get better jar bands it would work. I'm determined to make this work.

Click to expand...

I'm really surprised they pulled off. You were using regular Ball jar bands? Hmm. I'm hooking mine up to a plastic conical so I ended up using the regular Ball lids with a 1 1/2" hole drilled in the top and tightened on with a 1 1/2" threaded pvc through the hole like a bulkhead. Works perfectly. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1426554289.990638.jpg

Yup, they were Balls. They are the small mouth too. I do like your idea. I may try that down the line. Thanks for putting that up Atrifishal.

paguy said:

Yup, they were Balls. They are the small mouth too. I do like your idea. I may try that down the line. Thanks for putting that up Atrifishal.

Click to expand...

Ahh, small mouth. Sorry to hear. Everything I've dealt with has been with wide mouth. The wide mouth ecojarz lids stay on too. I'm pretty confident that'd work for you. I did buy the wide ecojarz stainless ones but couldn't get a clean hole in them so ended up just using stock lids. The beer doesn't actually touch them anyways, with my set up. Hard to explain but the way my threaded pvc and nut protrude down about a 1/4" and the fact that it's air tight make it so there is a bit of air trapped there. It will fill with co2 quickly so I'm not worried about it.

I wonder if I could do the same thing with a triclover stainless fitting?

paguy said:

Just a note. I bought 3 of the ecojars lids. Not too happy with the fit. I was able to pull the top off after tightening it. Don't feel secure at all with that. I do love the idea though with the mason jars. If I could only get better jar bands it would work. I'm determined to make this work.

Click to expand...

I had the same issue. I did find a combination a bands and jars that worked though. I was able to get a very secure joining of the lid and the jar that would not pull free. I'll see if I can find a brand on the jars and bands that worked for me.

The other choice would be to make thinner gaskets. The supplied gaskets are pretty thick.

I definitely used quart sized Ball brand jars. The bands are silver colored - I don't know the brand but I don't think they're Ball. Maybe Kerr??? I think Ball bands are yellow gold colored. Oh, I'm using narrow mouth lids.

Here's a post from WPStraussberg showing that he made his own gaskets.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=5404765

Ok, I tried a couple of different jar bands I had laying around. I found a combination that seems to hold well. I can't pull it off. I have my triclamp soldered on to the stainless lid. It's hooked up to my newly made plastic conical with it's very first batch, it's the left hand milk stout clone. Boy I hope it holds! I'll have a big mess on my hands if it doesn't. I'm sure it will though. I'll update if I think of anything that might be of interest. Thanks guys!

paguy,

Did you try a few different bands from the same brand or did one brand fit more securely than another. This seems to be a not uncommon issue. It'd be nice to have a clear solution.

Thanks!