Inconsistent Efficiency

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Cranny04

Cranny04

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Hey All,
I've brewed 5 all grain batches so far.. All have produced great beer but I have had incredibly inconsistent Efficiency..

First batch was around 78%
Second Batch 68%
Third Batch 62%
Fourth Batch 75%
Fifth Batch 60%

I Mash in a 10 gallon round beverage cooler with a CPVC manifold, Fly-Sparge (using a hose and wort aerator) and do not do a mash out.

All ingredients have been from the same LHBS and grains are crushed there.

Any idea why my efficiency is variable?

Thanks
 
What were the grain bills for each batch? A lot of times larger grains bills will have lower efficiencies and need to be taken into account.
 
Oh, boy, that's frustrating! I wonder if the LHBS changes their mill settings (or checks it). How's the crush look to you, overall? Is it the same each time?

Do you use the same % of mash water for each pound of grain in each batch? I guess I'm trying to think of any variables.
 
xjmox14x said:
What were the grain bills for each batch? A lot of times larger grains bills will have lower efficiencies and need to be taken into account.
Click to expand...

The first batch at 78% was the largest grain bill at 15-16 lbs.. The second one was a similar 14 - 15 lbs.. The other three are smaller beers but all still around 10-12 lbs...
 
Yooper said:
Oh, boy, that's frustrating! I wonder if the LHBS changes their mill settings (or checks it). How's the crush look to you, overall? Is it the same each time?
Click to expand...

It looks about the same to me. But I didn't look that close..

Yooper said:
Do you use the same % of mash water for each pound of grain in each batch? I guess I'm trying to think of any variables.
Click to expand...

Yeah I mash at 1.25 quarts per pound..
 
beerman0001 said:
If you can i would suggest getting your own grain mill. Looks like all else is the same in your process.
Click to expand...

Saving up for one now... Unless SWBO-Santa brings one..
 
H-ost said:
If that isn't consistent your efficiency probably would not be.
Click to expand...

Sooo go slower?

I didn't use a stop watch but I remember the first batch I sparged faster (closer to the 45 min mark) than the others
 
Have you tried batch sparging? The reason I ask is with a manifold, you may have channeling in the grainbed during a flysparge. Batch sparging for two batches in a row would be one variable that you could rule out.
 
Yooper said:
Have you tried batch sparging? The reason I ask is with a manifold, you may have channeling in the grainbed during a flysparge. Batch sparging for two batches in a row would be one variable that you could rule out.
Click to expand...

Thats a good idea..

I think I might give that a try
 
Yes, I would say 60min is what you want unless it is a huge grain bill.

Also, something I do not do but would suggest to you is doing a starch conversion test. Using a small sample of your runnings and a drop of Iodine you will be able to tell if you have gotten "full" conversion. If the solution turns black it means you still have plenty of starches to convert.

As I said I do not use this method because I so far have not had any real issues with my efficiency but I would suggest it to you because it tells you if you are done mashing BEFORE you start the boil unlike calculating efficiency which can't happen until after the boil has begun.

If you do try this and after a 60 min mash it tells you that you are not converting enough starches I would start looking at your water profile.

EDIT: Batch sparging might also be worth trying. I have never done fly sparge but a buddy of mine was having some issues holding his water temp... not sure if that is a common issue with fly sparging or not.
 
H-ost said:
Yes, I would say 60min is what you want unless it is a huge grain bill.

Also, something I do not do but would suggest to you is doing a starch conversion test. Using a small sample of your runnings and a drop of Iodine you will be able to tell if you have gotten "full" conversion. If the solution turns black it means you still have plenty of starches to convert.

As I said I do not use this method because I so far have not had any real issues with my efficiency but I would suggest it to you because it tells you if you are done mashing BEFORE you start the boil unlike calculating efficiency which can't happen until after the boil has begun.

If you do try this and after a 60 min mash it tells you that you are not converting enough starches I would start looking at your water profile.

EDIT: Batch sparging might also be worth trying. I have never done fly sparge but a buddy of mine was having some issues holding his water temp... not sure if that is a common issue with fly sparging or not.
Click to expand...

I have done starch conversion tests on all but the last batch.. That hasn't been an issue.. All of my beers have attenuated to the expected levels

And I just called for my water analysis.. (but if it's the water wouldn't this just cause low efficiency consistently?)
 
Thank you all for the help... I think the most likely cause may be channeling.. I'm planning on building a sparge arm.. But I think I'll try batch sparging the next two batches to test that hypothesis...

And I'm sure once I get my water analysis I'll have more questions.

Thanks again

Cranny
 
I have to say that I am a proponent of shooting for the 70% efficiency mark. That being said, I have found that the best way to consistently hit that mark is to batch sparge. Develop a consistent sparge water temperature and technique. You will hit the mark almost every time (unless brewing a big beer).

I have done this two ways...1.) Drain off first runnings. Then use sparge water that is 170 degrees and add until the water to grain ratio is around 1.5 qt/lb. Let sit 10 minutes. Drain and repeat until pre-boil volume hit. 2.) Add 212 degree sparge water slowly until mash comes to 168 degrees (stirring constantly). Fill until you get a 1.5qt/lb ratio. Stir, recirculate, and drain. Repeat this until pre-boil volume hit.
 
Is wheat part of your grain bill on any of the batches that have been lower on the efficiency side? I may be wrong... but I have heard the wheat needs a tighter crush because the grains tend to be smaller. If the LHB shop keeps their mill set to the same setting... your crush may not be sufficient if using a bunch of wheat. just a guess....
 
huge1s said:
Is wheat part of your grain bill on any of the batches that have been lower on the efficiency side? I may be wrong... but I have heard the wheat needs a tighter crush because the grains tend to be smaller. If the LHB shop keeps their mill set to the same setting... your crush may not be sufficient if using a bunch of wheat. just a guess....
Click to expand...

No wheat..

1st batch has 78% efficiency and I used Maris Otter..

The rest were 2 row..

Not sure if that matters...
 
I am in the exact same spot as you. I did a few AG batches ad I use batch sparging. Sometimes my numbers are spot o for the recipe efficiency (70 -75%) and others A belgian Triple and IPA my efficiency was much lower. I am still confused myself.
 
DanaDana said:
I am in the exact same spot as you. I did a few AG batches ad I use batch sparging. Sometimes my numbers are spot o for the recipe efficiency (70 -75%) and others A belgian Triple and IPA my efficiency was much lower. I am still confused myself.
Click to expand...

Haha.. Maybe take the opposite advice from me... Try Fly Sparge.

Your problem with the triple may be the larger gain bill.. According to above that may cause it..
 
I think I've figured out my efficiency problems.

1) my volumes were all off... Last two brews I re-calibrated my measuring jug and stick.. It was significantly off

2) sparging too fast.. I said above that I was at 45 min to an hour.. Well when I timed it I was much faster than that.


Last two beers I've hit all my numbers. Assuming 70% efficiency
 

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