Ballentine IPA

Anyone 1) old enough and 2) from New England, and thus remembers Ballentine Ale, and more particularly, Ballentine India Pale Ale? Before it was watered down, and turned into BMC beer?

Does anyone have an idea for a recipe starting point? I recall they used some Bullion hops, but nothing else. Think the original gravity was about 70.

AiredAle said:

Anyone 1) old enough and 2) from New England, and thus remembers Ballentine Ale, and more particularly, Ballentine India Pale Ale? Before it was watered down, and turned into BMC beer?

Does anyone have an idea for a recipe starting point? I recall they used some Bullion hops, but nothing else. Think the original gravity was about 70.

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1) Yes and 2) Yes. (BTW it's Ballantine, Ballentine is the whisky )

I've been making a beer derived from the old Ballantine IPA for years. It's not a clone but it tries to capture some of those old flavors. I prefer Brewer's Gold hops to the Bullion but they are related and both will work. The recipe below is one of many versions, it was the easiest one to find. The former brewmaster at the old Narragansett Brewery sampled this beer about 15 years ago and gave it a thumbs up so I knew I was on the right track. I get a 1.072/1.073 OG with this beer.

Echoes of Ballantine

10 Gallon / All-Grain

Grist: Mash 60 minutes @ 152F
18 lbs British pale
1 lb British crystal 55L
1 lb Carafoam
3 lbs Flaked maize/corn
1 lb Flaked barley

90 minute hops:
2 oz Cluster (AA% 6.5-7.0)

60 minute hops:
2 oz Brewer's Gold (AA% 6.5-7.0)

30 minute hops:
2 oz Brewer's Gold (AA% 6.5-7.0)

15 minute hops:
1 oz East Kent Golding (AA% 4.0-5.0)

End of boil/Flameout hops:
1 oz East Kent Golding (AA% 4.0-5.0)

Water modified to Burton profile.


Wyeast # 1056 American is the old Ballantine yeast but my favorite for this brew is Wyeast #1028 London Ale.

BigEd,

Thanks for the recipe, and sorry for the delay in replying. I will give it a try and let you know how it comes out.

You can still get ballantine ale.

as to IPA, my folks said my grandfather was a big fan and would drink it regularly.

so
I guess...

A) No
B) yes.

Have been curious about it though because my grandfather liked it. Glad to hear about it and see a recipe. Might have to try it. If I can track down the hops these days.

I grew up with an uncle and dad who drank Ballantine XXX Ale, and that is the beer that paved my way to loving real beers and not BMC pre-piss beers. Yes you can still get it in some places, but not easy to find here in MN.

I also suspect that the XXX recipe changed from time to time over the years from the time when Ballantine was acquired by Falstaff and moved from brewery to brewery until it is now contract brewed by Miller (I think).

I would also like an authentic grain and hop bill for the XXX Ale if anyone has one. I would guess based on memory mostly 6 row, and a good dose of corn, like 70/30 or so, with several hop additions.

AiredAle said:

I grew up with an uncle and dad who drank Ballantine XXX Ale, and that is the beer that paved my way to loving real beers and not BMC pre-piss beers. Yes you can still get it in some places, but not easy to find here in MN.

I also suspect that the XXX recipe changed from time to time over the years from the time when Ballantine was acquired by Falstaff and moved from brewery to brewery until it is now contract brewed by Miller (I think).

I would also like an authentic grain and hop bill for the XXX Ale if anyone has one. I would guess based on memory mostly 6 row, and a good dose of corn, like 70/30 or so, with several hop additions.

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The Bally XXX is still around but it is now just a shadow of its' former self. I think the Ballantine name is owned by Pabst and contract brewed by Miller. The IPA might have been brewed for a short time at the Fallstaff Ft. Wayne brewery after they closed the Narragansett brewery in 1981 but I think Fallstaff pulled the plug on it then. Here is a good article by beer and malt writer Greg Glasser on the history of the Ballantine ales. http://http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3469/is_13_51/ai_63841298

Thanks, an interesting article, though ultimately frustrating since the Ballantine-like ale brewed by Portland Brewing Company for a while. Seems a dead end since Portland was acquired by Pyramid in 2004 and no longer seems to offer that ale.

Here is another website: http://www.falstaffbrewing.com/ballantine_ale.htm
with some interesting insight, but the writer claims the XXX hasn't changed at all, ever. This I dispute based on my own experience. When they were sold to Falstaff in 1972, and they later the brewing moved to Ft Wayne, even I noticed a difference as a callow 21 year old. It has continued to get blander and blander since then.

At one point Ballantine used to employ a hop reclamation of it's dry hops.
I guarantee smaller breweries will start to do this again within six months.:fro:

AiredAle said:

Here is another website: http://www.falstaffbrewing.com/ballantine_ale.htm
with some interesting insight, but the writer claims the XXX hasn't changed at all, ever. This I dispute based on my own experience.

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I too have misgivings about the veracity of that writer's claims. The beer changed when production was moved from the original Ballantine brewery in Newark, NJ to the Narragansett brewery in Cranston, RI and changed even more after it moved to the Falstaff Ft. Wayne plant. The XXX lost IBUs while in Cranston and lots more in Ft. Wayne. The current edition probably has IBUs in the high 20s, a long way from the mid 40s which the beer had at the beginning of the 1970s. Certainly there were no Cascade hops in the original beer because Cascade hops didn't exist at that time. It's possible they were worked into the recipe from the mid 1970s on but the brew still retained its' trademark flavor from the Brewer's Gold/Bullion hops, fruity/black currant/floral, with none of the citrus quality of Cascade. I also suspect that today's XXX is made with lager rather than ale yeast.

Hey BigEd
Thanks for the recipe. THat is definitely on the to do list. And as to the original question, Yes and Yes

Hey Big ED
I just rant he numbers on this and I get an OG of 1.061 and 90 IBU's. That seems high to me. I'll admit it has been years since I had a BA but that just doesn't jive with my memory. Any thoughts? Also, do youhave any thoughts on substitutes for the Brewers Gold?

Thanks, Paul

paulthenurse said:

Hey Big ED
I just rant he numbers on this and I get an OG of 1.061 and 90 IBU's. That seems high to me. I'll admit it has been years since I had a BA but that just doesn't jive with my memory. Any thoughts? Also, do youhave any thoughts on substitutes for the Brewers Gold?

Thanks, Paul

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That's a recipe written for my brewery so you may want to adjust it to meet individual needs. At the default efficiency of most brewing programs an OG in the low 60s sounds about right. I would just add a bit more to the grist bill to get the OG up. As I said in the original posting this is not a clone recipe, per se. The old Bally IPA had IBUs in the mid 60s but depending on the method used this one is going to come out anywhere from 85 to 115.

The best substitute for Brewers Gold is probably Bullion. Both are older types of hops and often not easy to find nowadays. The current hop crisis doesn't help either. The old Brit bittering hop characteristics of dark fruit/berry are what you want. Of the newer varieties Pacific Gem or Challenger might be worth a try. Barring that you could fall back on one of the newer high alpha Brits like Target or Phoenix but they are more neutral in flavor.

Sounds good. I'm definately gonna make some of this.

Paul

Bringing this back from the dead only b/c BYO has an article with a couple of clone recipes in the new (May/June 2010) issue and I have some Bullion hops on hand and would like to give the IPA a try. BYO is calling for 6-row. I might use one of the varieties of 2-row I have on hand instead of having to buy 6-row.

Just read the BYO article and it certainly got my curiousity going...

For starters, I'm not familiar with Brewers Gold. You guys like that hop?

I've an analysis of Ballantine IPA from 1939 and that gives the OG as 1075.2 and the FG 1018.6. While XXX had an OG of 1056 and an FG of 1014.5.

fastricky said:

Just read the BYO article and it certainly got my curiousity going...

For starters, I'm not familiar with Brewers Gold. You guys like that hop?

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I do, though it's different, usually used for bittering. Bullion is interchangable.

patto1ro said:

I've an analysis of Ballantine IPA from 1939 and that gives the OG as 1075.2 and the FG 1018.6. While XXX had an OG of 1056 and an FG of 1014.5.

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Wow, that's cool! Thanks. If I had a Doc Brown DeLorean Time Machine, I'd travel back just to try beers from different eras to see how they really tasted back then. This is one I'd seek out. Looking to brew this mid-summer.

Check out the latest edition of BYO for a good story on Ballantines + a recipe.

Beer scene magazine is going to have an article on THE original Ballantine strain this month. A gentlemen named Al Buck of East Coast Yeast has revived the Ballantine Ale and Lager Strains from streaks from the original yeast banked cultured from the Newark NJ brewery. He is calling it "Old Newark Ale".

It is offered through Princeton Homebrew in 125ml pitchable nalgene bottles.

Joe at Princeton Homebrews has it for sale
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/2868 . He can ship.
East coast yeast is also offering a saison blend and bug farm lambic mix. Deff. some interesting yeast happenings on the east coast.

Thanks for letting us know!

CFuggles said:

Beer scene magazine is going to have an article on THE original Ballantine strain this month. A gentlemen named Al Buck of East Coast Yeast has revived the Ballantine Ale and Lager Strains from streaks from the original yeast banked cultured from the Newark NJ brewery. He is calling it "Old Newark Ale".

It is offered through Princeton Homebrew in 125ml pitchable nalgene bottles.

Joe at Princeton Homebrews has it for sale
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/2868 . He can ship.
East coast yeast is also offering a saison blend and bug farm lambic mix. Deff. some interesting yeast happenings on the east coast.

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I was at the shop today and spoke with Joe. He's currently 100% out of stock on the Old Newark strain from East Coast/Al Buck. He asked i shoot him an email so i can know when he gets it back in stock. I also found Al's email and sent him a friendly email as well.

Joe said that as soon as he got the stuff in, it was gone within a week or two. I will post up if/when he has some back in stock. I'll be brewing with it as soon as he gets it to make myself a home yeast bank.

Must. Get. This. Yeast.

Thanks for the tip! Maybe I'll shoot down the river in the next few days...

Cheers,

Bob

Worst cause scenario if Joe doesn't get more soon I can get you guys some from my secondary. I keep this as a house strain now

Bob said:

Must. Get. This. Yeast.

Thanks for the tip! Maybe I'll shoot down the river in the next few days...

Cheers,

Bob

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Before you do that, i have an update!

I emailed Joe at PHB, but have not heard back yet. He did say he'd FWD to Al and see what's what. I also wrote to Al and Nina got back to me (his wife i'd imagine) about the yeast. She suggested i contact Joe and see what he has in stock first and go from there. She was very fast to write me back (within an hour) so i expect she'll get me more info soon.

As i said, if i hear they have more in stock, this board will be the first to know.

CFuggles said:

Worst cause scenario if Joe doesn't get more soon I can get you guys some from my secondary. I keep this as a house strain now

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Now that is the spirit of homebrew!:rockin: I also wanted to keep it as a house strain which is why i'm bringing this up. Live in Jersey, gotta brew local. It's how i roll.

I have an update!

East Coast Yeast is looking to get the Old Newark yeast into Brewer's Apprentice as of yesterday, but nothing official so it seems. Nina says they gave BrewApp a card and that's all i know about that.

Al is looking to get the yeast out to homebrew clubs like WHALES and others like it. They want to do monthly orders and distribute at meetings, etc. Very good concept, IMO. They want to make the strain available to the people who can't easily get to Trenton to shop at PHB. (if you haven't been there, GO! great shop!)

Nina also says that Al is brewing today and will probably be culturing as well. She also said that Joe should be restocked some time in the next two weeks. I know I'll be making a trip the moment they get some.

Hope this helps everyone.

ps: their other yeasts include...

ECY01 BugFarm: A large complex blend of cultures to emulate sour beers such as lambic style ales. Over time displays a citrus sourness and large barnyard profile. Contains yeast (S. cerevisiae and S. fermentati), several Brettanomyces strains, Lactobacillus and Pediococcus. The BugFarm blend changes every year and can be added at any stage of fermentation.

ECY10 Old Newark Ale: Sourced from a now defunct east coast brewery, this pure strain was identified as their ale pitching yeast. Good for all styles of American and English ales. Suggested fermentation temp: 60-68°F. Apparent attenuation : 68-72%

ECY07 Scottish Heavy: Leaves a fruity profile with woody, oak esters reminiscent of malt whiskey. Well suited for 90/shilling or heavier ales including old ales and barleywines due to level of attenuation (77-80%). Suggested fermentation temp: 60-68°F.

ECY08 Saison Brasserie blend : A combination of several Saison yeasts for both fruity and spicy characteristics accompianied with dryness. Apparent attenuation: up to 80%. Suggested fermentation temp: 75-85° F.

Awesome. Thanks for the updates!

Bob

Just got back from a trip to Princeton Homebrew and they OLD NEWARK in stock as well as the other 3 yeast varieties mention above. I bought the ones in this photo. Thought i would pass along the good news.

Get it while it's there because Joe got 6 vials ONLY of the Old Newark and not much else of the rest. They're $8 a pop and look really good. Mine had a bumpy ride home, hence the bubbles in the bottle, but we all made it home. Born on date is last Thursday, so it should be pretty fresh. Joe is limiting it to one bottle per person until he gets more in, which is understandable. More Old Newark is on it's way, but no telling how soon. Now there's a demand, so let's home we can kick ECY into gear. :rockin:

Dude!

Of course you tell me this AFTER I drove through at lunchtime.

NOT COOL.



Bob

Nice stash! let us know how that scottish heavy turns out. The Saison Brasserie is a great mix of strains.

Bob said:

Dude!

Of course you tell me this AFTER I drove through at lunchtime.

NOT COOL.



Bob

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I was going to post it came in last night, but i wanted to make sure i got mine this time before i went and blabbed. My luck every poster in this thread would have showed up and i'd have been empty handed. He has more though. Go tomorrow and you'll be golden.

CFuggles said:

Nice stash! let us know how that scottish heavy turns out. The Saison Brasserie is a great mix of strains.

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The heavy really looks nice and globby and reminds me of English ale yeast in physical appearance. Joe told me that the Heavy is the same strain as what Brewtek was putting out and if i'm correct it's their "Classic British Ale" CL-0170. This is just a guess however. The Newark is THICK and settles REAL heavy. I'm very excited about this one. I'm thinking an old school IPA is in order.

I brewed a batch (not a Ballantine clone) using the Old Newark and it came out real nice and clean. I hadn't brewed the recipe before so I can't really compare it to anything else. I did get a real good hop flavor, but I am not sure how much the yeast contributed to this.The yeast does settle out real well in large clumps. When I washed some for the next batch (which is in the fermentor now) it seemed as though the yeast settled out before the trub. I got 78% attenuation on a beer with an OG of 1.045 fermented at around 68 F

For those that are interested, East Coast Yeast is now on Facebook. Some have reported trouble finding us while searching, so this link may help:
http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/East-Coast-Yeast/168646113149281
This is the best way to see when fresh cultures are delivered to Princeton Homebrew. You can also contact Joe to see what's in the fridge: 609 252-1800 or [email protected].
You can also direct questions/feedback to [email protected].
This is really more a homebrew hobby spin off than a business right now so please bear with us as we figure out how best to get cultures in brewers' hands!

I picked up one of the newly delivered Newark Ale samples from Joe lat Saturday. Now I need to find something to brew. I'm thinking centennial blonde..... I am really impressed at how fast this yeast flocced in the sample bottle.

So, i'm formulating the Ballantine IPA recipe based on the one in BYOmag. I popped it into Beer Smith and it's not right. If you put the ingredients into the program AS WRITTEN in BYO it goes WAY over the intended 1.074 OG, 62 IBU and 14 SRM.

Can anyone throw some thought to this? I was preparing to brew this with the Old Newark strain, but i don't want to wing it too much if i'm following a recipe.

Old Newark Ale starter raged right along and then cleared itself pretty well over a 48 hour period (18 hours on the stir, the rest unstirred). Taste was good and I pitched into a 10g low OG (1.047) amber pale ale this evening.

Fineexampl,

See post #2 in this thread for a good recipe. I've made it twice and love it. Can't vouch for how close to the original having never tried it.

fineexampl said:

So, i'm formulating the Ballantine IPA recipe based on the one in BYOmag. I popped it into Beer Smith and it's not right. If you put the ingredients into the program AS WRITTEN in BYO it goes WAY over the intended 1.074 OG, 62 IBU and 14 SRM.

Can anyone throw some thought to this? I was preparing to brew this with the Old Newark strain, but i don't want to wing it too much if i'm following a recipe.

Click to expand...

John (fineexampl), I sent you a PM but apparently your inbox is full. Can you PM me? I have a couple of questions for you. Cheers.

ocluke said:

John (fineexampl), I sent you a PM but apparently your inbox is full. Can you PM me? I have a couple of questions for you. Cheers.

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My inbox is full because i can't afford the luxury of a premium account at the moment. If you have questions about the recipe, just post it here. It might help someone out.

fineexampl said:

My inbox is full because i can't afford the luxury of a premium account at the moment. If you have questions about the recipe, just post it here. It might help someone out.

Click to expand...

I was going to ask you for Al Buck's email address so that I could ask him some questions about his yeast strains that I purchased.

If all 5 of your inbox/sent items messages are not needed, you can delete them and then continue to send/receive messages. You just need to keep it under 5 total messages.