minimum collar height?

I will be building a collar for my freezer this weekend. I only have picnic taps at the moment but intend on getting proper taps in the future. The main reason I'm building the collar is so I can keep the CO2 tank outside the freezer and run the gas line in. What is the minimum height collar that would allow for the adding of external taps later?

I have some spare 3x1 that I intend on using for three reasons:

1) I have it!
2) I suspect smaller collar means less need for insulation and a fan
3) it will fit in my mitre block so I should be able to cut nice acurate joints!

If I only keep wine on the hump then I don't need the collar for height. If I put fermentor or keg on the hump I need extra height (it will be a dual purpose keezer/fermentation chamber) but I'm not sure I need it now and I can always build a replacement collar later if I decide to change the setup.

3" should be fine for taps

Hi

A couple of things:

1) Check the spacing on the hinges on the lid. Often 3" is a really bad choice when it comes time to re-mount the lid. Either the hinges go all on the collar, or the bottom hinge hole lines up with the old top hinge hole. To make the top hole /bottom hole work the collar height needs to be "just right". You do not want to put extra holes in the freezer.

2) What ever you use for stock, it needs to be flat / straight / true. The gasket on the lid only will work if everything is flat when you are done. Unless you have some very unusual 1x3's I suspect they are a bit less than perfect. It's a *lot* easier to start with flat stuff than to spend five hours with a sander getting it flat afterwords.

3) Consider that your lines (CO2 and beer) need to go somewhere after they come out of the shanks. If you use commercial kegs, normal couplers stick up pretty far past the top of the keg. Some very neat builds strap the lines to the lid so it's all out of the way when you raise the lid.

One by what ever poplar boards are a fairly cheap alternative if you are going to paint the collar. Aspen is a bit cheaper if you can find it, it can be a bit harder to work with. If you plan on stain, then oak is about as cheap as anything else. If you have a joiner or something similar you can indeed straighten up a 2 by 4 and get a reasonable 1 by 3.

Bob

Besides tap height the other things to concern yourself with when making this decision is headspace for any equipment. For instance I have a secondary regulator and I wanted to mount it on the collar. So I needed a collar big enough to incorporate that. Another thing is whether or not you are utilizing the hump for anything. With my 8" collar I can accomodate another keg on there. Some folks need the collar to put their gas bottle on.

Hi

Here's another couple things to consider:

Do you really want the taps right at "bump height"? I'm sitting here looking at the backs of the kitchen chairs and the edge of my current keezer. A 3" collar would put the faucets at just the right height to be a real problem when the chairs get moved back. Same goes for pedestrian traffic in the area.

How tall are your bar tenders? Low taps mean holding the glass even lower. Higher is usually better in this case. Makes it easier to see when things are filling up if nothing else.

Bob

Thanks for the responses.

carlisle_bob said:

1) Check the spacing on the hinges on the lid. Often 3" is a really bad choice when it comes time to re-mount the lid. Either the hinges go all on the collar, or the bottom hinge hole lines up with the old top hinge hole. To make the top hole /bottom hole work the collar height needs to be "just right". You do not want to put extra holes in the freezer.

Click to expand...

I need to check this (it looked like it would work as I think there was a 3" gap between the screw holes) but I am hoping I can get the right size so that I can split the hinge between the freezer and the collar to add to sturdiness. Although I suspect that this may be too much to hope for!

carlisle_bob said:

2) What ever you use for stock, it needs to be flat / straight / true. The gasket on the lid only will work if everything is flat when you are done. Unless you have some very unusual 1x3's I suspect they are a bit less than perfect. It's a *lot* easier to start with flat stuff than to spend five hours with a sander getting it flat afterwords.

Click to expand...

They seem OK but as they are rough planed, the fist job will be to run a belt sander over them so hopefully I can take out any slight bowing if it is there.

carlisle_bob said:

3) Consider that your lines (CO2 and beer) need to go somewhere after they come out of the shanks. If you use commercial kegs, normal couplers stick up pretty far past the top of the keg. Some very neat builds strap the lines to the lid so it's all out of the way when you raise the lid.

Click to expand...

see response to Revvy below

Revvy said:

Besides tap height the other things to concern yourself with when making this decision is headspace for any equipment. For instance I have a secondary regulator and I wanted to mount it on the collar. So I needed a collar big enough to incorporate that. Another thing is whether or not you are utilizing the hump for anything. With my 8" collar I can accomodate another keg on there. Some folks need the collar to put their gas bottle on.

Click to expand...

I've thought about headspace. The main section of the freezer is 28" so even with a 3" collar I'm looking at about 5" clearance above my kegs and disconnects. As for the hump, it only has a clearance of 18" so what I can put there will depend on the size of the collar (3" would cover my fermenting bucket and airlock, I'd need at least 5.5" to cover a fermenting bottle and airlock and more than 8" to keep a keg on the hump). As wine will also be kept in the keezer, the hump seems the logical choice so not sure I'd have floor space for anythign else on the hump, so height may not be an issue. I hadn't thought about the gas splitter though so I'll look at that tonight. I'll probably have to keep the CO2 outside as I think I'm only going to be able to get a 20lb tank! I'm probably going to fix the collar to the freezer rather than lid as I suspect it will be more straightforward and the main benefit of fixing is to reduce the height you need to lift kegs and with a small collar (if I can get away with it) this won't be a problem.

carlisle_bob said:

Do you really want the taps right at "bump height"? I'm sitting here looking at the backs of the kitchen chairs and the edge of my current keezer. A 3" collar would put the faucets at just the right height to be a real problem when the chairs get moved back. Same goes for pedestrian traffic in the area.
How tall are your bar tenders? Low taps mean holding the glass even lower. Higher is usually better in this case. Makes it easier to see when things are filling up if nothing else.

Click to expand...

I don't really want the taps at bump height and would prefer a tower if I had a choice but I need to work slowly as observatiosn are already being made regarding how much I'm spending on beer equipment! The keezer is going to be in a store room so no passing traffic (although I have already started to think about a protective cage for the taps when I finally buy and fit them). I suspect that this collar may end up being version 1 to be replaced in the future once I have ironed out all the issues (another reason I'd rather recycle wood I already have than start fresh (although I don't want to make something that I'll need to replace in months because I overlooked something). Based on the wood I have I think I can do a 3, 5.5 or 9.5" collar and using the measurements above the 5.5 may end up being too close to the depth I need for a fermenting bottle on the shelf (ie not giving enough wiggle room for mismeasurements!) that it doesn't offer any advantage over the 3". I suspect that 9.5" would mean a much larger volume increase and potential heat loss (insulation issue discussed in another thread). It might end up coming down to the hinge spacing!

Hi

Go with the 9" collar !!!!! You can always insulate it up with (cheap) foam board. It solves a lot of problems now, and a few down the road.

You would like to have 30" over the top of a commercial keg plus the room for the hoses. Commercial may not be in the picture yet, but grabbing a 1/6 keg of Bud Light Lime (I almost can't even type that..... I need to go soak that couplers in bleach...) is a whole lot better than trying to brew up a copy of it. You never know what some people may want to have at *their* party...

Bob

carlisle_bob said:

Hi

Go with the 9" collar !!!!! You can always insulate it up with (cheap) foam board. It solves a lot of problems now, and a few down the road.

You would like to have 30" over the top of a commercial keg plus the room for the hoses. Commercial may not be in the picture yet, but grabbing a 1/6 keg of Bud Light Lime (I almost can't even type that..... I need to go soak that couplers in bleach...) is a whole lot better than trying to brew up a copy of it. You never know what some people may want to have at *their* party...

Bob

Click to expand...

I posted in another thread but I don't have access to insulation materials (live in Jamaica) which also means comercial kegs aren't going to be an issue either.

Tiredboy said:

I posted in another thread but I don't have access to insulation materials (live in Jamaica) which also means comercial kegs aren't going to be an issue either.

Click to expand...

Hi

Yea, I posted in that one as well. I didn't notice the link between them.

I'd still go with the tall collar. I think there are a lot of insulation materials out there that will do a fine job. Structuring a box to hold them will be easier with the taller collar.

Don't any of the local breweries keg their beer? I've never shopped for beer in Jamaica, so I have no direct experience.

Bob

Mostly bottles. I can only think of one bar in the city that has draught!

Tiredboy said:

Mostly bottles. I can only think of one bar in the city that has draught!

Click to expand...

Hi

According to the not to be trusted internet, Red Stripe does indeed do kegs. I suspect that since they are as under utilized as you say, it's going to be a 1/2 bbl keg. That's big enough that it's not a good size for home use. Heavy to lift and a *lot* of beer all at one time. 1/6 bbl kegs are an ideal size for home use.

So, commercial kegs are out.

Bob