Sour mash not sour smelling

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JeffStewart

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So, I set aside a portion of wort to sour, and then add back to the beer after fermentation. So, I set it aside, added some crystal grains to it and let it sit for 3-4 days in a closed container at room temperature. I know the temp is supposed to be higher but just couldn't maintain that. I took a whiff of it today and it doesn't smell sour, at least to me. It smells like concentrated crystal grains, which I think smells great, it's just not what I was aiming for. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.
 
Raise the temperature. You have to.

You can do the ice/water bath swamp cooler but in reverse. Keep the closed container in a pool of warm water. Periodically add hotter water to keep the temperature up.
 
toss it in the oven on warm or use a croc pot on the warm setting

that said Ive never had good luck with sour mashing or sour worting, I think either those that espouse great results are either over stating the effects, are using a very small amount in their overall batch, or have gotten extremely lucky with the microflora on their grain

everytime Ive done it, there is a terrible hot vomit rotting garbage smell that never dissipates, even with boiling. there is a lot more on grain that lactobacillus, unfortunately it seems that all of my grain is covered in enterobacter.....yuck

I think if i do it again (likely) i will make a small "starter" using some crushed grain, then after its fermented out i will decant and use the lees in a new starter. This should drop the pH enough that most of the enterobacter are dead and wont make this flavor/aroma in the final beer
 
What about instead of sour mashing, would it make sense just to inoculate some separated wort with lacto or something, then once that's done working, boil and add as intended?
 
ryane said:
toss it in the oven on warm or use a croc pot on the warm setting

that said Ive never had good luck with sour mashing or sour worting, I think either those that espouse great results are either over stating the effects, are using a very small amount in their overall batch, or have gotten extremely lucky with the microflora on their grain

everytime Ive done it, there is a terrible hot vomit rotting garbage smell that never dissipates, even with boiling. there is a lot more on grain that lactobacillus, unfortunately it seems that all of my grain is covered in enterobacter.....yuck

I think if i do it again (likely) i will make a small "starter" using some crushed grain, then after its fermented out i will decant and use the lees in a new starter. This should drop the pH enough that most of the enterobacter are dead and wont make this flavor/aroma in the final beer
Click to expand...

i use a heating pad - keeps it around 90-110 and mine have always smelled like sour cream - nothing objectionable but noticeably sour..
 
I sample a 3 day sourmash blonde at NCHF a few weeks ago.. it was fantastic, especially given the warm weather of the day. So it can obviously be done.. I wasn't familiar with enterobacter before that, but had a lambic there that absolutely stank like a diaper pail and discovered that enterobacter is the cause of that aroma - so yeah, I could see how one would want to stay away from that.
 
I do my sour mashes and lacto starters in the oven with just the light on. It keeps the temp around a 100. You can also turn it on for a minute or two a couple times a day to inject some more heat.
 
I also did a 3 day sour mash in an ale pale, insulated the hell out of it and used a heating pad periodically on rotating sides of the pale. After 3 days I opened the bucket expecting the putrid smell that everyone talks about, and there was none of it, it actually smelled pretty nice. However, after draining, sparging, boiling and letting finish it's primary ferm. it has a wonderful sour twang and equally pleasant sour smell. Might have just been lucky, but I will repeat this process again. Initially I thought I would add a brett culture to the secondary, but the sourness from the mash was so delightful, I'm just going to let it ride. It's not supposed to be a lambic, just a sour ale.
 
Just a thought, but are crystal grains going to have lacto or pedio on them? Seems to me the bacteria might be killed off during the kilning process, especially on a darker kilned malt. I did a sour mash a couple weeks ago and pitched some maris otter in the wort and kept it around 100, and had a nice and sour lactic starter in a couple days.
 
I'll second the method of using the oven with the light on. Here's a lactose starter I just got done with after 4 days. Sour smelling but not funky. I purged with co2 so maybe that helped.

7031-sour-wort-8-oz-grains-into-o1-liter-1-030-starter-dme-simple-sugar.jpg
 
I just tried my first sour mash in a 2 gallon cooler with 3 lbs of grain (30% of grist) at about a 1.66 qt/lb thickness (after all additions of temp boosting water). We let this ride for 2 days over which time the temp went from 127 - 102, then boosted to 117 and finished at 92.

The mash did not smell foul or anything, but there were clumps of white film on top and some fuzzy crap along the sides of the cooler above the mash. I skimmed all of this out and then added this sour mash to the main mash just before lautering. What went into the fermentor has zero sourness.

Did we not let the sour mash ride long enough? Maybe an additional day or two next time? I'm afraid another day would have created a lot more ugly bugs though... :confused:
 

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