what gauge steel tube for brew stand

I'm planning a brewstand build out of 2" stainless square tubing. Should I go 1/8" or 1/16" wall thickness? The price difference is substansial, will the thinner material be strong enough for a 10 gallon single tier system?

Thanks

You're making me do math... in inches, 1/8" is 11 gauge and 1/16" is 16 gauge.
If you're doing a one row cart 16 gauge will probably work fine. You can gusset or triangle brace the corners to make it bullet proof.

1/16" will work fine, but I would need to see your design to say whether it would need gusseting or bracing.
304 stainless will be cheaper than 316, but you may have already realized that.
Where do you plan on buying from?

Also consider going with 1.5" tubing. I know you're probably going for that industrial look, but 1.5" still looks sharp and you'll save some dough. You're not supporting any substantial weight, and it's a static load. If you design your burners and windshields well, it won't be a problem to go lighter.

dmfa200 said:

Where do you plan on buying from?

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Thanks for the help. I was pricing the steel from onlinemetals.com. While I am avid fan of DIY, I am a relative noob compared to the many skilled craftsmen on this forum and my DIY drive has stemmed largely from my interest in brewing. I am basically buying tools as I go and learning as I go at this point. Where should I look to source this kind of steel locally?

Scuba: I am considering 1.5", however I think I can accept the price of the 2" in 1/16th thickness for how cool it will make the finished product look.

Look for a local metal supplier. It will be cheaper than online metals

Do the same rules apply for regular steel? I mean size - wise.

dmfa200 said:

1/16" will work fine, but I would need to see your design to say whether it would need gusseting or bracing.

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I am going to draw it up in sketchup this weekend, I'll post it up here and maybe you can take a look and let me know your opinion.

Question...why stainless steel? Are you planning to paint it? or are you going to leave it "raw"? I am thinking of doing something similar and was thinking that since I was probably going to paint it, I'd go with 1.5" A36 Mild Steel...Any issues? Thoughts?

J-Malone said:

Question...why stainless steel? Are you planning to paint it? or are you going to leave it "raw"? I am thinking of doing something similar and was thinking that since I was probably going to paint it, I'd go with 1.5" A36 Mild Steel...Any issues? Thoughts?

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I was not planning to paint. Planning to leave it raw stainless.

If you're going to paint with hi-temp engine/grill paint then you could use mild steel no problem.

I'm in the process of building a stand from 11 gauge 1.5" square mild steel tubing.
I'm sure 16 gauge would be fine. I went thicker because I wanted a little more mass and I thought I could drill and tap if I needed to mount anything directly to the stand.
I priced stainless but ended up going with mild steel because I'm a "tinkerer" and this will probably not be the last stand I build... it's just my first. I plan to look into having it powder coated when I'm finished.

I'll be following your build.
Good luck.

Ed

Ed, go with 16 gauge unless your planning on pulling maintenance on city buses, use these instead;http://www.nutsandbolts.com/14-20-u...nutserts-inserts-qty-25-p-586.html#googlebase
Save your money as well the excess dead weight.

I myself would go with the 1/8" wall tube. It will weld much easier and and have much more strength. When in doubt.... build it stout. You will probably have this for a long time. Also if you move it around alot, I think I would want it to be really strong. Have fun with the build.

BrewBeemer said:

Ed, go with 16 gauge unless your planning on pulling maintenance on city buses, use these instead;http://www.nutsandbolts.com/14-20-u...nutserts-inserts-qty-25-p-586.html#googlebase
Save your money as well the excess dead weight.

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BrewBeemer,

Material is bought, stand is 80% finished. It cost me about $25 extra to go with 11 instead of 16 gauge. Extra weight is not a problem, its on casters and won't leave the premises. Actually, I wanted the extra "heft". I have lifted it on and off the welding table several times without too much trouble.

Those inserts are pretty cool, I may have to order some of those.

Ed

Ohio-Ed said:

BrewBeemer,

Material is bought, stand is 80% finished. It cost me about $25 extra to go with 11 instead of 16 gauge. Extra weight is not a problem, its on casters and won't leave the premises. Actually, I wanted the extra "heft". I have lifted it on and off the welding table several times without too much trouble.

Those inserts are pretty cool, I may have to order some of those.

Ed

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Ed, I am just curious bc I am in the process of trying to build a brutus myself and I am pricing the 1.5" -1/8" mild steel here in TN. Do you mind sharing what the steel cost you? and did you go local or one of the online metal stores?

J-Malone said:

Ed, I am just curious bc I am in the process of trying to build a brutus myself and I am pricing the 1.5" -1/8" mild steel here in TN. Do you mind sharing what the steel cost you? and did you go local or one of the online metal stores?

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I bought more material than I needed for the stand so I would have extra for the next project (whatever it may be).

3 Pcs 1.5" sq x 11ga 24' long - $42/ea
1 Pc 1/8" x 4" flat bar 20' long - $25
1 Pc 1.5" x 1.5" x 1/8" angle 20' long - $18.25

I bought the material local.

I'll put some pics up of the progress when I get a chance.

Ed

Ed, you said you might powder coat it... when I get around to a stand, which I hope is soon, I have a couple options at powder coating that might turn out to be free. My question is will that stand up to the heat of the burners? I have seen pics of someones BK and stand bright orange from the burner.

rekoob said:

Ed, you said you might powder coat it... when I get around to a stand, which I hope is soon, I have a couple options at powder coating that might turn out to be free. My question is will that stand up to the heat of the burners? I have seen pics of someones BK and stand bright orange from the burner.

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My rig is 100% electric so it is not a problem for me. I don't know how well powder coat would hold up on a propane system. I would think it would depend on heat shields etc...

Ed

Ohio-Ed said:

My rig is 100% electric so it is not a problem for me. I don't know how well powder coat would hold up on a propane system. I would think it would depend on heat shields etc...

Ed

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I've seen a few builds on here that were propane rigs on powder coated steel stands. I'd imagine if the stand is well designed, it should work ok. The real question would be longevity, how long before it would need to be refinished?

dmfa200: Here is my initial design mock up, minus things like windscreens, gas lines, etc...just the basic stand. Do you think I'll be ok with the 1/16th wall 2" stainless tube?

strat_thru_marshall said:

dmfa200: Here is my initial design mock up, minus things like windscreens, gas lines, etc...just the basic stand. Do you think I'll be ok with the 1/16th wall 2" stainless tube?

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With the cross members and the corner supports all being the same size tubing,
I foresee that as being a very rigid top for 10 gal. batches.

Are you using sanke kegs as your vessels?

My only concern would be the amount of heat that the top would encounter while brewing. I don't have personal experience with that aspect.
Maybe someone else could chime in.

If heat is a concern than I would add some bracing in all four corners(example below).
If not, scratch the bracing.

dmfa200 said:

Are you using sanke kegs as your vessels?

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15 Gallon Boilermakers. I guess if I put the stand together as is and it suffered from extreme heat build up, I could always add more support beams after the fact.

Maybe I should either give up on the stainless idea and just go with mild steel and hi temp paint, or bite the bullet on cost and buy the beefier stainless tubing.

That will be very strong out of 16 gauge 2"

If anything, the only support you would need is an upright at the back.
You'd have about 80 pounds of weight in the center with 10 gallons of water, and a structure like that should easily support that, assuming it's somewhere around 60" long.
Personally I'd put an upright in the front and back center, but that would mostly be for utility (mounting pumps, etc). It would add strength, though.

Ohio-Ed said:

I bought more material than I needed for the stand so I would have extra for the next project (whatever it may be).

3 Pcs 1.5" sq x 11ga 24' long - $42/ea
1 Pc 1/8" x 4" flat bar 20' long - $25
1 Pc 1.5" x 1.5" x 1/8" angle 20' long - $18.25

I bought the material local.

I'll put some pics up of the progress when I get a chance.

Ed

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thanks Ed, that is helpful and about what I thought it would run. I would love to see some progress reports.....builds are always interesting to look at...especially when I am in the process of designing my own (which is code for steal ideas from others....lol)

Hypnolobster said:

That will be very strong out of 16 gauge 2"

If anything, the only support you would need is an upright at the back.
You'd have about 80 pounds of weight in the center with 10 gallons of water, and a structure like that should easily support that, assuming it's somewhere around 60" long.
Personally I'd put an upright in the front and back center, but that would mostly be for utility (mounting pumps, etc). It would add strength, though.

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Come to think of it. If the frame got hot enough for the top to sag because of the heat I'm sure I wouldn't want to get any where near it to brew.
This design seems pretty popular. So I doubt heat is an issue.
I wouldn't bother with added bracing.
That design will be rock solid.

I agree with Hypnolobster on the uprights.
They will add some strength, but may also be useful for mounting other stuff.
But not necessary.

I chose to go with the diagonal bracing because it would give the most strength aside from a truss configuration, but that would block access to the underside of your stand.

J-Malone said:

thanks Ed, that is helpful and about what I thought it would run. I would love to see some progress reports.....builds are always interesting to look at...especially when I am in the process of designing my own (which is code for steal ideas from others....lol)

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I went ahead and started a new thread with a few pics of the current state of things:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/brew-stand-build-227398/#post2671804

Ed

Strat,

What you have drawn is very sturdy. I would add the front and back verticals like someone suggested earlier. Also, i would use 1/8 material because you can put threads in it and make it clean looking. A cheap tap and die set will make your rig sweet! Just a simple thread here and there saves putting a nasty u-bolt on it to attach a pump, or what ever. 2x2x1/8 steel. 4-10 foot sticks = 105 bucks. 100 bucks to powder coat. Stainless inserts to block heat from frame 100 bucks. 300 dollar Primo stand- priceless!
Snake10
Ps - a tig welder like ohio-ed, again- priceless!

Snake10 said:

Strat,

What you have drawn is very sturdy. I would add the front and back verticals like someone suggested earlier. Also, i would use 1/8 material because you can put threads in it and make it clean looking. A cheap tap and die set will make your rig sweet! Just a simple thread here and there saves putting a nasty u-bolt on it to attach a pump, or what ever. 2x2x1/8 steel. 4-10 foot sticks = 105 bucks. 100 bucks to powder coat. Stainless inserts to block heat from frame 100 bucks. 300 dollar Primo stand- priceless!
Snake10
Ps - a tig welder like ohio-ed, again- priceless!

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How about 4-10 foot sticks of 1.5x1.5 1/8 steel for $82? Snake question, what kind of inserts are you talking about? Just heat/windshields around the burners or something different?

Snake10 said:

Strat,

What you have drawn is very sturdy. I would add the front and back verticals like someone suggested earlier. Also, i would use 1/8 material because you can put threads in it and make it clean looking. A cheap tap and die set will make your rig sweet! Just a simple thread here and there saves putting a nasty u-bolt on it to attach a pump, or what ever. 2x2x1/8 steel. 4-10 foot sticks = 105 bucks. 100 bucks to powder coat. Stainless inserts to block heat from frame 100 bucks. 300 dollar Primo stand- priceless!
Snake10
Ps - a tig welder like ohio-ed, again- priceless!

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Thanks Snake, How will the powder coating hold up to heat and cleaning? One of the reasons I was thinking stainless is ease of cleanup. My current rig with hi-temp painted mild steel never really looks like it comes totally clean. Plus I plan to weld plate style pump mounts that are drilled to match the pump mounting bracket. The only other thing that will be mounted is the gas manifold so I'm not sure if being able to cut threaded holes is going to add enough to the build to justify the tradeoff.

If I'm shopping stainless tube locally from a steel yard does anybody have an estimated price I should be looking for? I see the online prices, but I have yet to find a local steel yard that I can buy from here in OKC.

J,
Stainless baffles which fit into the burner holes. Guess a picture is worth a thousand words. They keep your frame cool and keep your powder coat from melting. Works incredibly well. The last picture shows some stainless blocks. They are now welded onto the insert. They lift the keg up and allow proper airflow of the burner flame exhaust. If you want paint or powder coat to stay pretty, this is the only answer. My current frame is 2x2x1/8 and my next frame will be 2x2x1/8. The stainless is 1.5x1.5 angle.
Snake10

Diatonic made some inserts on my recommendation, check his threads or gallery out. You'll dig it.
Snake10

Snake10 said:

J,
Stainless baffles which fit into the burner holes. Guess a picture is worth a thousand words. They keep your frame cool and keep your powder coat from melting. Works incredibly well. The last picture shows some stainless blocks. They are now welded onto the insert. They lift the keg up and allow proper airflow of the burner flame exhaust. If you want paint or powder coat to stay pretty, this is the only answer. My current frame is 2x2x1/8 and my next frame will be 2x2x1/8. The stainless is 1.5x1.5 angle.
Snake10

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Oh yes, I saw those, that is nice! I will add that to my list of additional things to add to the build...this thing is getting more and more expensive...lol but I love it!

Ohio-Ed said:

I bought more material than I needed for the stand so I would have extra for the next project (whatever it may be).

3 Pcs 1.5" sq x 11ga 24' long - $42/ea
1 Pc 1/8" x 4" flat bar 20' long - $25
1 Pc 1.5" x 1.5" x 1/8" angle 20' long - $18.25

I bought the material local.

I'll put some pics up of the progress when I get a chance.

Ed

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I'm looking at 1.5" sq x 11 ga 8' long for $47/ea. Where are you finding 24' for $42/ea? I'm looking at 304 SS

ImperialLover said:

I'm looking at 1.5" sq x 11 ga 8' long for $47/ea. Where are you finding 24' for $42/ea? I'm looking at 304 SS

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I built my stand from mild steel.

I got pricing on 11 and 16 gauge in mild and stainless (not sure but assumed it was 304 ss).

16ga mild 1.5" x 24' - $27
11ga mild 1.5" x 24' - $42

16ga ss 1.5" x 20' - $72
11ga ss 1.5" x 20' - $116

*notice that the SS comes in 20' length.
These prices were from a local place in Cincinnati.

Ed

ImperialLover said:

I'm looking at 1.5" sq x 11 ga 8' long for $47/ea. Where are you finding 24' for $42/ea? I'm looking at 304 SS

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I had similar pricing in Nashville.

1.5" 11 gauge 24' = $42
1.5" 16 guage 24' = $29

I didnt even think about stainless bc I plan to paint or powder coat.

Snake10 said:

J,
Stainless baffles which fit into the burner holes. Guess a picture is worth a thousand words. They keep your frame cool and keep your powder coat from melting. Works incredibly well. The last picture shows some stainless blocks. They are now welded onto the insert. They lift the keg up and allow proper airflow of the burner flame exhaust. If you want paint or powder coat to stay pretty, this is the only answer. My current frame is 2x2x1/8 and my next frame will be 2x2x1/8. The stainless is 1.5x1.5 angle.
Snake10

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Snake, that thing is a work of art. I love it. Would it be possible to get some dimentions of your rig?

So I did some phone research today. I found a local steel supplier who can get me 2" square stainless 304 tubing in 11 gauge (1/8") wall for $7.50 a foot!!!!!

For the 50 feet i'll need thats $375 total, not too bad.

They also can do the same thing in 16ga walls for $4.50/foot

Strat,
Who's that supplier? Can you pm me the info. The only advantage to stainless I can see is corrosion resistance while brewing. These single tiers don't really get dirty, except for maybe the occasional boil-over. Also, you could put the kegs on the frame and not melt paint, because there is no paint. If i had stainless I would polish it to look like lehr's rig. All shiny. The rig your looking to build is Lonnie Macs original design. Goggle Brutus Ten and look around, Lonnie has made some videos on youtube. Also, Look up Brotherhoodbrew.com . I have seen his stand in person. Keep in mind his is 1.5 inch stainless. Plus it was a branding iron when he brewed. Still, I like color and steel plus a little stainless is for me. These builds are all your ideas and what you want. You will see that once you cut metal, it's all you from there on out.
Bartman

Strat,

What ever you get go with the 1/8. No matter what anyone says. You will not be limiting yourself or your design.

Bartman

Snake10 said:

Strat,
Who's that supplier? Can you pm me the info. The only advantage to stainless I can see is corrosion resistance while brewing. These single tiers don't really get dirty, except for maybe the occasional boil-over. Also, you could put the kegs on the frame and not melt paint, because there is no paint. If i had stainless I would polish it to look like lehr's rig. All shiny.

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PM Sent.

Also, call it superficial...but the main reason I want stainless is the bling factor....and to polish it to a mirror finish like you mentioned.