Aunt_Ester
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Why is it called stealing Wi-Fi when the signal trespasses on your property? =]
Is "borrowing" wireless wrong?
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Clearcut23
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CDGoin said:
Who downloads porn anymore? Free streaming is where it's at
I don't either, but this is a certainly a modern gray area, with very few equivalencies. We're not talking about taking a candy bar from a store without paying. Unless one is downloading feature length movies, the impact is so minimal that it would mostly be unnoticed at all. Furthermore, the owner is literally putting out a signal with a fairly wide footprint, knowing that without security measures anyone can access it with a multitude of devices.
Ethically, the closest comparison I can think of is the neighbor's fruit tree. If their apples fall onto my property, I'm eating them, plain and simple. If they didn't want me getting free apples, they were free to trim the tree before it began to hang over my property. Although connecting to wireless is more equivalent to picking the apples which are still on the tree, but hanging over your side of the fence, I still don't see an issue.
Now if you had to stand on the owner's property to get a signal, that's a different story altogether.
AB, I agree that if the signal is broadcast into my space it changes my attitude. I also think that your position is the one that it usually boils down to in a court.
I intentionally leave my wifi open because I want people to feel free to use it. The "unlocked front door" comparison is completely off base here. If they're broadcasting their SSID and haven't restricted access in any way, why wouldn't we read that as an invitation?
CDGoin
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I look at it this way.. When in a new area, I may not have great signal. SO I need WiFi, and I have used networks that others left open. So I am returning the favor. In my range there are 10 networks, I am the only open signal. I am SURE more than a few have appreciated it. As for sniffers, and others trying to hack my system. ONCE in 6 years have I ever had someone TRY to breech my home network.. and I am sure as crude as they were, they were teenagers in the neighborhood (And they didnt get in). I think everyone is slightly a bit paranoid..
Not to sound stupid.. oops to late for that. What does the acronym SSID stand for?
tservice
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I give up....
Service Set IDentification
CreamyGoodness
Well-Known Member
Easy does it, its a conversation after all...
Thank you.
I had to google it (and I brought it up
. Service Set ID. It's just the ID you see when you search for available WiFi routers. You see the SSID on your smart phone, laptop, or whatever else uses WiFi. This ID is broadcast, but you can turn that broadcast off. Just another step to stop snoopy people.I saw a guy in my cul-de-sac stop in the middle of the circle and hold out some wired gadget. He was looking at a laptop in his car for a few minutes, then left right as I approached him. Odd. Might have been a GPS or something, but I suspect he was looking for WiFi routers. Anyway, my paranoia got the better of me and I tightened up the security a bit. I'm involved in a fairly high-profile lawsuit right now and I know for certain the people involved have had PI's and other surveillance (I've seen some of the tapes).
No reason to "give up". Explain your position, I wasn't attacking you.
You entered the thread with "Sorry but I would never take anything that I did not pay for. That is just the way I am" and now you're leaving with "I give up". Personally I'd say you never really started...
Um, it wasn't a pringles can was it?
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/how-to-make-a-wifi-antenna-out-of-a-pringles-can-nb/
I have been able to carry a signal over a mile (line of sight of course) with a metal tennis ball cantenna. It used to make people freak when I would use it while wardriving on one of the major roads in the city.
Your definition of using wireless vs. using a computer network doesn't seem to make sense. What other use is there for wireless except to access a computer network (the internet)?
You can access the wi-fi as a gateway to the Internet without infringing on their home network. I think.
histo320
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Think of it this way.
Their internet is trespassing in to your home. That being said, its fair game.
Their internet is trespassing in to your home. That being said, its fair game.
The internet is a public access network. Think a business' internal network, or a personal home network setup with a few computers and a linked printer. Or for fun, let's say the NSA!
Because you're not entitled to use anything that you don't have permission to use. Don't even have to invoke law here, it's just common sense. Oh wait...yeah...
Laughing_Gnome_Invisible
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Interesting thread, but I got bored easily......So here is my view the quick and easy way.
No, that doesn't work because regardless of any laws defining what it may or may not mean in terms of connecting to or accessing, it amounts to theft of service. It's no different from a content standpoint than scaling the pole and connecting your cable TV line to get it free. You're receiving a paid service you haven't paid for.
Laughing_Gnome_Invisible
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I just got unbored!! Another analogy: If your neighbour is talking loud and you can hear the lardy assed moo cow (Sorry, I'll pretend it's a random neighbour from here on) Is it wrong to hear them?
edit to accomodate the above post: She is talking to her shrink. She has paid for that service.
edit to accomodate the above post: She is talking to her shrink. She has paid for that service.
Regardless of any laws? So you just decide you don't like something then declare it illegal? It doesn't work that way in real life fortunately.
I think the OP said he did pay for it.
If I built a machine that captured farts and turned them into fuel, would it be theft to...
It is illegal in the majority of places.
Um... surfing HBT, checking email and checking Facebook is not going to make a dent in any internet connection that has been relevant in the past decade.
I leave my wifi wide open on my guest SSID, separated onto its own VLAN and QOS'd down to 1 mbit. I have two additional access points, so I'm pretty sure half the neighborhood can see it.
Know how many problems I've had because of it? Zero.
Laughing_Gnome_Invisible
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I thought is an ethical question rather than a legal one.
I just got unbored!! Another analogy: If your neighbour is talking loud and you can hear the lardy assed moo cow (Sorry, I'll pretend it's a random neighbour from here on) Is it wrong to hear them?
edit to accomodate the above post: She is talking to her shrink. She has paid for that service.
Make it more interesting, you hear the "cow" tell the "bull" that if he doesn't shut up she will kill him like she did his brother. Is it wrong to act on that information?
Apparently it isn't where I live. I plan on clarifying for academic purposes, but let's just say I'm pretty familiar with the NYS penal law, and according to what I read, they refer to networks specifically.
He did say that, but my comment was in general response.
As far as the OP goes, I think he should ask to use the neighbors wireless. If he doesn't have explicit permission then he shouldn't use it.
Fair enough, I caught that earlier but the point still remains. It's illegal most places.
Really? Can you provide any evidence of that? I can't find anything to say that it is.
Like I said, in my neck of the woods the custom is to indicate that you are willing to share your wifi by leaving it broadcast and unlocked. It's not stealing if I'm inviting you to use it.
If I stick a couch on the driveway with a sign that reads "free", I probably shouldn't be surprised if it's not there when I come home. The taker isn't stealing. The implication is that anyone who wishes to take the couch is invited to do so.
In reference to the point you make here, read this article from Wired:
http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/03/pr_burning_wifi_squatting/
Their sources seem pretty legit. Apparently it is still a gray area, but one that is becoming more lenient as the technology spreads. Furthermore, ignorance of permission seems to be a valid defense. Interesting since ignorance of the law isn't in most cases.
Did you read the link?
I didn't go through all 50 states, but the ones I did look at use language very similar to what Airborneguy describes for New York. In other words: it's not as obvious as you'd like it to be.
Implicit permission is a common question in the law. The issue comes down to reasonable interpretations of intent. As I keep saying, among everyone I know an open wifi router is explicitly intended as an invitation for the public to hop on.
As a side note, do you really need to drench your responses in sarcasm? This is just a friendly conversation here.
Which is why I said most, rather than all.
I have no particular problem if you have a Gentlemen's Agreement to use each other's stuff. However, because that is your way doesn't grant permission to assume it's everybody's way.
Yes, if I think it might help drive home a point.
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How do you know if it's the neighbor? Many areas have free open source wifi.
