Water for Imperial Stout

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Johnnyboy1012

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Hey guys,
I'm going to be brewing a clone of Stone's Bitter Chocolate Oatmeal Stout. I got the recipe from BYO's Classic Clone recipes. I use EZ water calculator to make my water adjustments and get the correct mash pH. The problem I am having is when I adjust my water with salts and lactic acid to get the ratios I want and correct mash pH, according to the spreadsheet my Residual Alkalinity is in the negatives (which I know is for pale beers). Long story short I am confused what to do and how to adjust this. I've read on here not to worry about RA anymore, but with my RA in the the area used mostly for pilsners, it's concerning.

The grain bill for this beer is:
16.5# 2-row
.5# Carapils
.5# Crystal malt (15 L)
2# flaked oats
1# chocolate malt
.25# roasted barley
.25 # black malt

mash water 6.52 gallons and sparge 3.52 gallons.

Starting Water (ppm):
Ca: 35
Mg: 8
Na: 46
Cl: 77
SO4: 21 (listed as 7 on Ward Labs report so I multiplied by 3 as per EZ calc)
CaCO3: 90

Without water additions my mash pH is 5.67, so slightly high. I would like the chloride to sulfate ratio to obviously be on the chloride side. I notice that when I adjust my mash with lactic acid my RA goes way down to the negatives. Any suggestions or advice?

Thanks guys
 
I don't have anything to add to help you, but if that happens to be the anniversary beer, I brewed it last year and it was up there with one if the best beers I've ever brewed. I can't wait to brew it again this year.
 
In my opinion, you need to dilute with RO or distilled to get that sodium down below 10ppm for sure, I try to get to 5.
Also use camden tablet to neutralize that chlorine.
Then I'd add enough acid to mash water to get to 5.3-5.43 ph, and add just enough calcium chloride to get Ca to 50ppm. That's it for mash.
I'd then check sparge water to make sure it's below 5.5 ph, treating with acid if necessary.
I would also only mash my light grains (2-row, carapils, flaked oats), adding the dark grains only at vorlauf. This is the only way I do stouts anymore, and I'll never go back.
 
I don't have anything to add to help you, but if that happens to be the anniversary beer, I brewed it last year and it was up there with one if the best beers I've ever brewed. I can't wait to brew it again this year.

thanks for the replies. phoenix, this is the 12th anniversary clone. I'm looking forward to it! what kind of cocoa did you use in the boil?
 
I would also only mash my light grains (2-row, carapils, flaked oats), adding the dark grains only at vorlauf. This is the only way I do stouts anymore, and I'll never go back.

I do this, too. You can also cold steep the roasted grain for 24 hours and add the liquor to the boil. I like both methods..
 
In my opinion, you need to dilute with RO or distilled to get that sodium down below 10ppm for sure, I try to get to 5.
Also use camden tablet to neutralize that chlorine.
Then I'd add enough acid to mash water to get to 5.3-5.43 ph, and add just enough calcium chloride to get Ca to 50ppm. That's it for mash.
I'd then check sparge water to make sure it's below 5.5 ph, treating with acid if necessary.
I would also only mash my light grains (2-row, carapils, flaked oats), adding the dark grains only at vorlauf. This is the only way I do stouts anymore, and I'll never go back.

I am considering using 100% RO. Do you think the Na will cause that much flavor difference? What kind of off flavor does sodium levels like mine give off?
Also, this goes back to my original question....by using 100% distilled water with enough CaCl2 to bring me to 50ppm of calcium and 2ml of lactic acid to bring my pH into appropriate range, my Residual Alkalinity is -134. Palmer mentions for stouts it should be 150-250 and mine is even below the range for light beers. Is this a problem and what kind of problems can it cause?

I do use a camden tablet every time I brew now. Can I ask what is your reason for only adding the dark malts only at vorlauf? Sorry for all the questions, it is just easy to get confused with this stuff.
 
Johnnyboy1012 said:
thanks for the replies. phoenix, this is the 12th anniversary clone. I'm looking forward to it! what kind of cocoa did you use in the boil?

Cocoa nibs I got my from supply shop

http://www.hoptech.com/products/jamaican-origin-cacao-1-oz

It was absolutely delicious. Had hoped to age it 6 months, did NOT happen between me and my friends. The only thing I thought it needed was more body. I went off the more beers instructions (it was a kit from them) and I think it gives u a range to mash in so I mashed low. It was also my second all grain brew so I may have gone wrong elsewhere but after the two lagers I brew next this, and the 15th anniversary clone will be brewed next and stored for winter.

I don't know what your experience is thus far but I found the mash to be incredibly sticky. Also for such a big brew at 5 gallons you might want to cut your mash water ratio and add extra sparge. Your efficiencies gonna suffer no matter what though.
 
Cocoa nibs I got my from supply shop

http://www.hoptech.com/products/jamaican-origin-cacao-1-oz

It was absolutely delicious. Had hoped to age it 6 months, did NOT happen between me and my friends. The only thing I thought it needed was more body. I went off the more beers instructions (it was a kit from them) and I think it gives u a range to mash in so I mashed low. It was also my second all grain brew so I may have gone wrong elsewhere but after the two lagers I brew next this, and the 15th anniversary clone will be brewed next and stored for winter.

I don't know what your experience is thus far but I found the mash to be incredibly sticky. Also for such a big brew at 5 gallons you might want to cut your mash water ratio and add extra sparge. Your efficiencies gonna suffer no matter what though.

Nice! I ordered 4oz of organic cocoa nibs with my grains. I'm going to soak them in a small jar with vodka for 2 weeks and add them to the beer after primary is finished. I don't crush my own grain so I asked the shop I get my grains from to crush them slightly finer or crush them twice to possible help with my efficiency. Plus it's a 90 min boil so that should help concentrate the wort. :mug:
 
I am considering using 100% RO. Do you think the Na will cause that much flavor difference? What kind of off flavor does sodium levels like mine give off?
Also, this goes back to my original question....by using 100% distilled water with enough CaCl2 to bring me to 50ppm of calcium and 2ml of lactic acid to bring my pH into appropriate range, my Residual Alkalinity is -134. Palmer mentions for stouts it should be 150-250 and mine is even below the range for light beers. Is this a problem and what kind of problems can it cause?

I do use a camden tablet every time I brew now. Can I ask what is your reason for only adding the dark malts only at vorlauf? Sorry for all the questions, it is just easy to get confused with this stuff.

No problem on the questions, they show you're interested in the why, not just 'gimmie a recipe' :)

Higher sodium levels can lead to a 'sour/sharp' flavor perception, and at higher levels can start to taste salty (usually above 100ppm).
There is a style (I can't remember off the top of my head) that does call for higher sodium levels than are typical, but for very specific flavor reasons.

Residual Alkalinity (to my understanding) is more an indication of the ability of your water to resist changes in ph; a buffering potential - which doesn't really matter if you're not mashing dark grains!

The dark, roasted or crystal grains all lower mash ph significantly, which is why Palmer says you need high Residual Alkalinity for a stout, and why I and others don't mash our dark grains.

I also like stouts that are roasty, chocolate, toffee, etc. but not bitter. Not mashing your dark grains really reduces the bitterness. It's exactly like a cold-pressed coffee; you get the delicious flavors without the bitterness.

Hope all that's useful! :mug:
 
No problem on the questions, they show you're interested in the why, not just 'gimmie a recipe' :)

Higher sodium levels can lead to a 'sour/sharp' flavor perception, and at higher levels can start to taste salty (usually above 100ppm).
There is a style (I can't remember off the top of my head) that does call for higher sodium levels than are typical, but for very specific flavor reasons.

Residual Alkalinity (to my understanding) is more an indication of the ability of your water to resist changes in ph; a buffering potential - which doesn't really matter if you're not mashing dark grains!

The dark, roasted or crystal grains all lower mash ph significantly, which is why Palmer says you need high Residual Alkalinity for a stout, and why I and others don't mash our dark grains.

I also like stouts that are roasty, chocolate, toffee, etc. but not bitter. Not mashing your dark grains really reduces the bitterness. It's exactly like a cold-pressed coffee; you get the delicious flavors without the bitterness.

Hope all that's useful! :mug:

Thanks for the help wolfman! It would be interesting to do a side by side tasting with mashed dark grains vs grains added at recirculation.

I am though trying to brew a clone of Stone's Bitter Chocolate Oatmeal Stout....and it's only about 45 IBUs so I'm assuming the bitterness is acceptable from the dark grains as well as some from the chocolate.

A problem I am having is that when I put all of my grains and water numbers into the EZ water calculator, my pH is still high. I understand that the dark grains are more acidic and should lower mash pH but I am still having to add lactic acid and salts to bring the pH down. This sound correct? Or is my mash pH still high because there is only 1.5lb of dark grains along with 16.5lb of 2-row?
 
I'm going to be brewing a clone of Stone's Bitter Chocolate Oatmeal Stout. I got the recipe from BYO's Classic Clone recipes. I use EZ water calculator to make my water adjustments and get the correct mash pH. The problem I am having is when I adjust my water with salts and lactic acid to get the ratios I want and correct mash pH, according to the spreadsheet my Residual Alkalinity is in the negatives (which I know is for pale beers).
Residual alkalinity can be whatever it needs to be in order to make the beer you want. Tuning RA to beer color is more likely to detriment your beer than improve it. What you are striving for is proper mash pH - not a particular RA.

Long story short I am confused what to do and how to adjust this. I've read on here not to worry about RA anymore, but with my RA in the the area used mostly for pilsners, it's concerning.

I wouldn't say you should ignore it but remember that the basic idea behind it is as a tool for comparing waters to one another and as a crude predictor of wort (not mash - this point is often missed) pH for beers which employ mostly base malts (the kind of beers brewed in Kolbach's Germany.

The grain bill for this beer is:
16.5# 2-row
.5# Carapils
.5# Crystal malt (15 L)
2# flaked oats
1# chocolate malt
.25# roasted barley
.25 # black malt

When I started brewing it was generally accepted that one's first all grain brews should be stouts because the strong flavors of the roast malt/barley would mask errors. It's actually the other way around. Dark beers are harder to do because it's harder to predict the mash pH when you have dark malts of unknown acidity in the grist.


mash water 6.52 gallons and sparge 3.52 gallons.

Starting Water (ppm):
Ca: 35
Mg: 8
Na: 46
Cl: 77
SO4: 21 (listed as 7 on Ward Labs report so I multiplied by 3 as per EZ calc)
CaCO3: 90

Without water additions my mash pH is 5.67, so slightly high.

My guess, based on nothing more than intuition and experience is that the EZ estimate is a bit high given the percentages of roast malts and the somewhat high alkalinity of the water. My guess would be 5.60 if you were using a base malt with a DI pH of about 5.7. But base malts sometimes have lower DI pH's - I have seen lower than 5.6 reported. Not sure I believe that but I have seen it.

I wouldn't be who I am if I didn't strongly encourage the purchase and use of a pH meter especially for cases like this.

The only 'sure' alternative is to dilute the water down to the point where is is 'soft' as defined in the Primer in the Sticky in the Brew Science thread. But even this is not 'sure' because of the uncertainty of the malts.



I would like the chloride to sulfate ratio to obviously be on the chloride side.

That's really a matter of your personal taste preference. Chloride generally moves beers in a direction drinkers like because of its mellowing, rounding, sweetening effect so I would certainly suggest brewing the beer for the first time with lots of chloride. Some drinkers would find the bitterness insipid if you do this however. You can get an idea as to how sulfate might improve or degrade a finished beer by adding some gypsum in the glass.

I notice that when I adjust my mash with lactic acid my RA goes way down to the negatives. Any suggestions or advice?

I don't think RA is properly applied to mash. It's for characterizing water. Alkalinity is the buffering capacity of base (in this case bicarbonate) and acid will, if course, reduce alkalinity by neutralizing that bicarbonate so, given that RA is alkalinity minus a fraction of the hardness adding acid will cause alkalinty to plummet. But this doesn't take into effect the buffering capacity of the malts - acid for the dark ones, basic for the base malts.

Another poster indicated that sodium needs to be below 10. Sodium at 10 and even quite a bit above is fine. Too much is where you notice it. 46 is probably OK but of course if you take the dilution route that will lower it. Dilution will also reduce the alkalinity. 1:1 dilution cuts everything in half. Your sodium would go to 23 and your alkalinity to 45 but your calcium would also drop to the point where you would probably want to supplement it. Once you start down the path of RO dilution you might as go far enough that the Primer recommendations kick in.

That same poster indicated that campden tablets would be needed to neutralize the 'chlorine'. He is confusing chloride with chlorine here. If your water does indeed contain chloramine then a campden tablet is the solution. If only free chlorine is involved standing overnight and/or heating in the HLT is sufficient.
 
It would be interesting to do a side by side tasting with mashed dark grains vs grains added at recirculation.

I'm assuming the bitterness is acceptable from the dark grains as well as some from the chocolate.

I've done the comparison, and the difference is like day and night! As mentioned by others, I'll never go back to mashing roasted grain. You still get the color and roast flavor you would expect from a dark beer, but no pucker face bitterness.
 
How does adding the roasted grains later affect the OG, i assume it would be lower b/c you would not get the conversion?

I actually hit my normal numbers with both methods. Using late malt additions and with cold steeping as well..

Roasted grains can be steeped, and don't need to be mashed with a base malt. When you add them into the MLT and then sparge, they basically get steeped. I added them to the last 5 minutes of the mash, then let my first (of two) sparge's rest for about 10 minutes to steep a little more. Then I just ran off like normal.

My second (more preferred) method is when I cold steep the roasted grain for 24 hours in the fridge instead of adding to the MLT. It actually makes a very thick, dark and rich wort, which you toss in to the boil.
 
There is no extract to speak of in roasted grains so adding them later has little or no effect on OG.

Gordon Strong is a big proponent of adding roast grains later. Whatever he says is definitely worth considering.

I have a slightly different take on this and that is that if you are getting harshness from the roast grains it is because you are using too much of them. I don't do a lot of beers that use these grains, really just an occasional Irish stout, but I find that used in sensible proportion these malts give you all the roast, coffee like qualities you want without the harshness or bitterness.

Yet another approach is to use the Carafa malts - roast malts which have been de-husked thus removing the source of the harsh bitterness.
 
I actually hit my normal numbers with both methods. Using late malt additions and with cold steeping as well..

My second (more preferred) method is when I cold steep the roasted grain for 24 hours in the fridge instead of adding to the MLT. It actually makes a very thick, dark and rich wort, which you toss in to the boil.

what is your method for steeping the grains?
 
do you think by adding the roasted grains later in the mash, I should keep them off of my EZ water calculator? therefore affecting how acidic my mash is by keeping out the dark grains till the end? and would chocolate malt be considered a dark grain? I know they are roasted but not sure how roasted/acidic they are in comparison to black malt and roasted barley. I feel like there is a low percentage of dark grains in this recipe...do you guys think there is there a specific percentage of dark grains that should be added late in the mash or do you think any amount of dark grains should be added late?

My original question is what kind of water profile should I use for this style of beer? Recommendations? Thanks guys! I'm very interested in trying this late addition dark grains but would like to know more about it first! Cheers!
 
I have a slightly different take on this and that is that if you are getting harshness from the roast grains it is because you are using too much of them..
I used to think this way, as well. After making a few proven recipes from this forum and getting a lot of astringancy in my beer, I figured I had a pH problem. I didn't have a lot of experience with water chemistry nor a meter, so I figured I'd give the late additions a try. I liked the difference so much I figured it was worth continuing even if I gained more knowledge regarding water chemistry..
what is your method for steeping the grains?
I mill the grain like normal and steep it in the fridge with 2qt/lb for 24 hours. Then when I'm ready to start the boil I strain the wort thru voile into the kettle with the rest of the wort from the mash..
do you think by adding the roasted grains later in the mash, I should keep them off of my EZ water calculator? therefore affecting how acidic my mash is by keeping out the dark grains till the end? and would chocolate malt be considered a dark grain? I know they are roasted but not sure how roasted/acidic they are in comparison to black malt and roasted barley. I feel like there is a low percentage of dark grains in this recipe...do you guys think there is there a specific percentage of dark grains that should be added late in the mash or do you think any amount of dark grains should be added late?

My original question is what kind of water profile should I use for this style of beer? Recommendations? Thanks guys! I'm very interested in trying this late addition dark grains but would like to know more about it first! Cheers!
I do indeed keep the roasted grains out of the grain bill when using EZ, and chocolate is a roasted grain. I add all of the dark grain later (or steep all of the dark grain) as opposed to splitting it up as you asked. As far as water goes, when I made my RIS I used pure RO and added gypsum and calcium chloride according to what EZ told me.
 
I used to think this way, as well. After making a few proven recipes from this forum and getting a lot of astringancy in my beer, I figured I had a pH problem. I didn't have a lot of experience with water chemistry nor a meter, so I figured I'd give the late additions a try. I liked the difference so much I figured it was worth continuing...

Hard to argue against success!
 
So I feel the general consensus of this thread is to
1. use RO water or at least dilute
2. use EZ water calc for proper mash pH of all grains other then the dark grains and add brewing salts and lactic acid to hit proper pH
3. add dark grains to the mash during recirculation

What are thoughts on proper mineral levels for an imperial stout? Ca, Mg, Cl, SO4? I would like my chloride to sulfate ratio to be balanced to the chloride side to give the perception of maltiness.
I would like something like this: Ca= 100ppm, Mg= 15ppm, Cl=150, SO4= 50....does this look about right? Should I increase the Cl even more and would that give more perception of a maltier beer? I want to try to at least hit minimums and I would split the additions up as per EZ water calc between the mash and the boil. Thoughts?
 
So I feel the general consensus of this thread is to
1. use RO water or at least dilute
2. use EZ water calc for proper mash pH of all grains other then the dark grains and add brewing salts and lactic acid to hit proper pH
3. add dark grains to the mash during recirculation

What are thoughts on proper mineral levels for an imperial stout? Ca, Mg, Cl, SO4? I would like my chloride to sulfate ratio to be balanced to the chloride side to give the perception of maltiness.
I would like something like this: Ca= 100ppm, Mg= 15ppm, Cl=150, SO4= 50....does this look about right? Should I increase the Cl even more and would that give more perception of a maltier beer? I want to try to at least hit minimums and I would split the additions up as per EZ water calc between the mash and the boil. Thoughts?

NO! The primary problem with your tap water is the sodium is a little high. So dilution may be desired, but using straight RO would not be. A 1:1 dilution might be desirable, but not necessary. You may need the alkalinity to balance the crystal and roast malt content. Reserving the roast malt can be a good technique for reducing the need for alkalinity when the tap water has little.

I suggest that the ion concentrations in the proposed water are too high. First of all, chloride should generally be kept to less than 100 ppm unless you want a minerally perception. The sulfate level can be reduced proportionally. I also suggest that if the desire of this beer is to focus on malt, then adding magnesium is unnecessary and undesirable. The calcium level is also higher than necessary for fermentation and yeast health and can be reduced if the chloride and sulfate levels are reduced.

I have to comment on AJ's contention that darker beers are not more successful for new brewers. Considering that on the order of 3/4 of the US has a water supply with significant alkalinity, I can assure you that brewing a darker beer is more likely to meet an acceptable taste result than a lighter beer with those waters. Since a new brewer is less likely to be adjusting their water, that acidity from the darker grist is going to produce a better beer in those more alkaline waters.

I can only assume that AJ is also advocating that any new brewer use RO water for that first batch. Under that condition, his advice is sound.
 
So I feel the general consensus of this thread is to
1. use RO water or at least dilute
You have two options
a) Fix your water to make it suitable
b) Build suitable water (from RO or DI)
Option b) always works and is advantageous in that you don't need to know anything about your water except that your RO system is working. It does require that you know what kind of water you want to build but so does b). Dilution with RO under a) a definitely a possibility and in fact a probability as it's the only way to reduce the content of an ion i.e. by diluting it.


What are thoughts on proper mineral levels for an imperial stout? Ca, Mg, Cl, SO4? I would like my chloride to sulfate ratio to be balanced to the chloride side to give the perception of maltiness.
I would like something like this: Ca= 100ppm, Mg= 15ppm, Cl=150, SO4= 50....does this look about right? Should I increase the Cl even more and would that give more perception of a maltier beer? I want to try to at least hit minimums and I would split the additions up as per EZ water calc between the mash and the boil. Thoughts?

Do yourself a favor and forget you ever heard about chloride to sulfate ratio. Brew the beer with no sulfate and then add some gypsum in the glass. If you think it improves the beer then use some gypsum in the water in successive brews.

As a general rule the fewer minerals in the water the better people like the beer. For a first shot here I'd advocate the equivalent of 1/2 to 1 tsp of calcium chloride in 5 gallons of RO water (option b)) or 38 - 76 mg/L calcium and 67-134 mg/L chloride if you are using option a). By withholding the dark malts you will require some acid to get the base malt mash pH low enough for proper conversion and then when you add the dark malts you will get their acids too. This is one of the reasons I'm not a big exponent of withholding the dark malts. If you put them in at the same time as the base malt you should not need acid (or base) most probably but you would do well to have a pH meter and acid and base handy.
 
Wow so much good info from both of you guys. I feel like I've been on the wrong path when it comes to brewing water. I guess the feeling was the more I add in of chloride the maltier the beer would taste and the more sulfate the better the hop crispness. So are palmer's recommendations too high and we should be striving for the lower end of what he suggests? Reading how to brew and listening to the water shows on the brewing network I got the feeling that the beer should still taste good when hitting the upper limits of his recommendations. So are the minimum amount of ions for a specific style of beer more recommended? thank you guys for the help!
 
Many people will tell you what you should or shouldn't do but what you should or shouldn't do depends a lot on what your goals are in brewing. With the fairly recent advent of affordable RO systems and pH meters a whole new world of possibilities is open to the home brewer. I do suggest that you start out with a low mineral profile emphasizing chloride but I also try to make it clear that this is a starting point. It may well end up being the end point too but then it may not and whether it does or doesn't depends in large measure on your personal tastes and those of your 'customers'.
 
This is just another reference point for building water for stouts. I've been experimenting with adding baking soda to my beers to see how I like the added Cl- and don't have an opinion yet. I hope to by the time I brew a pseudo-imperial cream stout.

http://www.madalchemist.com/archives/mashing-the-perfect-sweet-stout/

Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate. It adds salty flavor, and chalky flavor, and raises the mash pH a bit.

To see if you like it, you can add a tiny bit to your glass of beer. Most people don't like it.

As was mentioned, though, it does NOT bring any chloride.
 
I want to either use 100% RO water or at least dilute 1:1 and build up from there. Where can I find RO water? Would a regular grocery store carry this?

So the beer I am looking for is a malt forward beer. Would the low amount of IBUs (about 49) and the high gravity of about 1.096 leave the beer too sweet if I don't mash the roasted grains? I'm thinking that mashing the roasted grains would add some bitterness to the beer as apposed to cold steeping and adding the liquid of that to the boil. This make sense? I mean the name of the beer I am cloning is Bitter Chocolate Oatmeal Stout....and I'm sure some of the perception of bitterness comes from the roasted grains and not all from the chocolate. But I could be wrong...

If I build up from 100% RO water, what should my mineral numbers look like?
Ca= 50, Mg= 0, Na= 0, Cl= 75, SO4= 0? Should I not worry about sulfate for this beer or is it still important but just at lower levels?
 
RO is often available from vending machines at grocery stores in areas with poor drinking water quality. Distilled water is always available from grocery stores in the water aisle.

If the beer is going to be that big, be sure to mash at the low end of the alpha range (say mid to upper 140's). The wort needs to be fermentable since its unlikely that the yeast will be able to take the gravity very low. You may not want to cold steep the roast malt for the reasons mentioned above. Adding the roast at the end of the mash may provide more of the roast bitterness you may desire in the beer.

The sulfate is not necessary. Add it only if you like the flavor impact. Having a little in there wouldn't matter much.
 
If the beer is going to be that big, be sure to mash at the low end of the alpha range (say mid to upper 140's). The wort needs to be fermentable since its unlikely that the yeast will be able to take the gravity very low. You may not want to cold steep the roast malt for the reasons mentioned above. Adding the roast at the end of the mash may provide more of the roast bitterness you may desire in the beer.

So are you suggesting leaving the roast grains out of the mash completely and then adding them to the mash right before recirculation?

The recipe I'm following says to mash at 150 so I was going to be shooting for that. I'm also going to be using WLP 002, English Ale Yeast...which I know isn't the best attenuator but I'm brewing a clone :)
 
The heavy roast flavor is part of the style. You should probably include the roast malts for the entire mash. The high FG will balance the roast.
 
Makes sense and that’s what I was thinking as well, but I do understand the reason for cold steeping or adding the roasted grains at the end of the mash. The main reason is to cut down the astringency that the roast malts give while leaving only the roast flavor. I am thinking that the roasted grains being mashed for the full 60 minutes would be appropriate for this beer specifically because I am trying to clone the beer.
 
Do different brands of distilled water have small amounts of minerals? Or are all distilled water brands pure with absolutely nothing in it?
 
The recipe I'm following says to mash at 150 so I was going to be shooting for that. I'm also going to be using WLP 002, English Ale Yeast...which I know isn't the best attenuator but I'm brewing a clone :)

150 should be fine. You don't want this to be a dry beer, I presume. With 70% attenuation you should wind up at about 7 °P and a bit under 9% ABV. And you'll probably get a bit more attenuation than that assuming a good pitch, proper oxygenation etc.
 
Do different brands of distilled water have small amounts of minerals? Or are all distilled water brands pure with absolutely nothing in it?

That depends. Even the purest water will pick up CO2 from the atmosphere very quickly. Otherwise it depends on whether the water is single, double or triple distilled, what the boiling vessel was made of, whether the water is in fact distilled or is RO water that has been passed through a cation/anion exchanger etc. If the package is labeled with the resistivity 18 MΩ-cm is as pure as you can get.

Tiny amounts of trace ions won't hurt you. In fact it is not necessary to use DI water. RO water with a TDS of a few ppm is sufficiently pure.
 
That depends. Even the purest water will pick up CO2 from the atmosphere very quickly. Otherwise it depends on whether the water is single, double or triple distilled, what the boiling vessel was made of, whether the water is in fact distilled or is RO water that has been passed through a cation/anion exchanger etc. If the package is labeled with the resistivity 18 MΩ-cm is as pure as you can get.

Tiny amounts of trace ions won't hurt you. In fact it is not necessary to use DI water. RO water with a TDS of a few ppm is sufficiently pure.

Well the thing is I'm not sure where to find RO water so I figured diluting with store bought distilled water would be easier. Although I went to the local grocery store last night and all they had was spring water.
 
Try health food stores, drug stores, upscale super markets... You aren't exactly in a remote area. I'm sure you'll find an RO machine somewhere.

I have, on occasion, forgotten to collect RO water until too late and wound up having to hit more than one local drugstore to buy them out of distilled water. I was never surprised when they offered free Thorazine samples.
 
I have, on occasion, forgotten to collect RO water until too late and wound up having to hit more than one local drugstore to buy them out of distilled water. I was never surprised when they offered free Thorazine samples.

HAHAHAH! But diluting with distilled and building up my Ca and Cl levels from there should work just fine right? And I know you said not to worry about my Cl to SO4 ratios, but would less than 20ppm be ok taste wise? I'm in the state of mind where I'm trying to brew the best beer I can without experimenting with the same batch and different mineral levels because of time, lack of funds, and space issues. That's why I am trying to get specific as I can with people who have done the experiments and finding out what they and others preferred in regards to water and mineral levels. Thanks again!
 
That's why I am trying to get specific as I can with people who have done the experiments and finding out what they and others preferred in regards to water and mineral levels. Thanks again!

The only problem with this is the fact my water is different than yours and so are my personal tastes. You might like the taste of minerals that I don't. Hence, the need for personal experimenting...
 

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