Panel Design

I'm getting ready to go electric, bcs or BT, and I want to make sure I have manual override for everything. I came up with this layout on a 20x20 box.

Thoughts, Ideas, Suggestions, Don't Do that's?


Thanks for your input.

photo not visible

I put it back up. Is it up now?

I can see it, examining now!

What do the 3 switches bellow the PIDs do? Force the PID On / Off? Or somehow bypass the PID and force the element on / off? I didn't think PIDs were used as part of a BCS / BT system - or is that part of your full backup?

The PID are display only. I wanted bling and less people handing my iPad on brew day seeing what temp the "insert item here" is currently at.

I looked at the wiring schem's for the lighted switches and they can be wired to turn on when the element, pump, or rims is on. So I might make the lights go away. Thoughts?

My whole idea is to have an auto system with manual backup.

I'm also thinking about making a flow chart like black heart brewery's lower panel.

So you still never answered my question - what do the 3 switches under the PIDs do then?

The PIDs - If they're just for temperature read out, then they're overly expensive and complicated for your use. You can get a temperature display to do the same thing for a whole lot less money and taking up a whole lot less space within the panel.

If its like mine, it turns the element/pump on manually : off : or computer controlled (BCS in this case). I agree with you, I'd find a temp display instead of using a PID. The BT store sells exactly what you're looking for. I know they work for the BT but may also work for the BCS.

Oops sorry. Pickles is correct. The switches are to show on, off or auto controlled.

I was checking those pid read outs and like the covers they offer at the BT site. The 3-way switch has an independent light function so it is probably redundant to have a light separately come on when I could have the switch light when an element is active.

I was reading last night on the bcs you can have an observer login. They can see all the controls but can't make changes. I think that is really cool.

Maybe I'm not getting it. When I look at your panel I see two switches under each PID, for a total of 6 switches. The bottom row (3 of them total) appear to be what pickles is talking about, and I get that - they're clearly labeled as PUMP controllers.

What are the three switches above the pump switches, below the PIDs doing? I feel like I'm in some scenario where everyone else knows what's going on except me, and I somehow missed the big obvious answer...

lI assume they are for the Elements on HLT and BK and possibly a RIMS tube for the MLT? Looks good though..

S-

BadNewsBrewery said:

Maybe I'm not getting it. When I look at your panel I see two switches under each PID, for a total of 6 switches. The bottom row (3 of them total) appear to be what pickles is talking about, and I get that - they're clearly labeled as PUMP controllers.

What are the three switches above the pump switches, below the PIDs doing? I feel like I'm in some scenario where everyone else knows what's going on except me, and I somehow missed the big obvious answer...

Click to expand...

Usually i miss some big part that loses everyone. Don't feel bad, have a beer. Those are the for the BT, mlt (rims), and hlt. They should indicate on, off, and auto.


I have indicator lights above the 3-position selectors that would light when elements are on. I think I am going with lighted selector switches so when elements are on they will light up no matter the on or auto position.

Gotcha, that's what I thought, but I got confused along the way because you said the PIDs weren't actually going to be used. Here's why - you indicated you wanted full manual override, which makes a lot of sense and is a cool "bling" factor. If you get rid of the PIDs and have that row of switches basically just serve as an auto (BCS controlled), off (zero power to elements), or on (100% power all time), then you have lost the ability to manually regulate temperatures without the BCS - the elements will heat up as hot as they can get when in the on mode.

If you keep the PIDs as shown in your original design and you actually use those PIDs to run your elements in the manual mode, then you'd be able to dial in a temperature and the PIDs would modulate the elements and you'd have pure 100% adjustable and tuneable manual control over your panel.

It's obviously your panel and your design, but I think it'd make a lot of sense to keep the PIDs and actually use their functionality so you have that backup that you're looking for.

I agree if you plan to use it truly as a back up then the PID would be the way to go. I use my manual switches a bit differently. I like to be able heat water independently of the BT; this allows me to heat water for cleaning, a crab boil after brewing, etc. I have an element in the HLT for heating strike water, but since I have a RIMS tube I can manually turn on a pump and the RIMS tube to augment the heating process and really get up to temps quickly.

Good point on the PID and full/semi auto. I have seen some smaller analog dials that work for 220. Auber sells the SSVR for $25. On my set up I would also have to buy displays that look like PIDs ($35). That is more than an actual PID. . Doesn't make sense to go that route. I am a fan of simplicity when you need it.

I am going to buy PID controllers so I can go manual if I wish to do so. I did a quick update with the way my set up is going to work. I put my set up as the background then added the switches to see how it looked late last night. I couldn't sleep with all the rain were getting in Colorado so it may not be fully correct.

What do you think about this new draft of the CP design? I pulled elements from JonW's set up and Kal's CP. I like how it is coming out with help from this thread.

So it's been decided that I'm going with a hybrid PID and BCS system. I'm thinking about the selector switches, do I go 3 or 4 way. I like the idea of having PID off bcs for the selections on the switch. The reason I'm thinking going this way I'm going is duty cycle concerns. Once an element is on how do I really control the temp? I'm thinking counting to 3 turn it off, then count to 7 turn it on, the repeat.

Thoughts?

I also found this from an old post. Looks like no one answered. Additional thoughts?

summerofgeorge said:

If you have a PID system and decide to upgrade to the BCS, is it possible to keep the PIDs and use them in manual mode? Say you went with ON/OFF/AUTO switches on the elements. Could ON use PIDs and AUTO use BCS? I know you'd need two sets of temp probes but could you "share" the other stuff (SSRs, relays, etc)?

I guess I'd wonder about the converse too...if you went from BCS to a normal PID system, could you keep the BCS for data logging? I know it's a waste given the BCS's capabilities but if you already have it, why not...

For those of you who switched between BCS and PIDs, did you bag the other system or incorporate both into the new system?

Click to expand...

The third iteration of the cp.

Auburn Instuments has a sweet sale on a control panel with 3 PID cutout and heat sink for less than a 100. So this is what I'm going with. So I redrew my design.
I'm not totally in love with the design. What would you do?

I the box in. My estimates are way off. So I remeasured and put this design together for it.

Here is the naked box

I'm laying my panel out with Visio since it lets me put in exact measurements and easily move things around. One thing I'm finding though is seeing them on the panel itself gives a better perspective. To do this I printed drawings of each component on card stock out at scale and then put them on the panel. I still haven't got it all dialed in but I think I get closer everyday. Looking at what others are doing helps out too.

Bigscience said:

Click to expand...

You're monitoring the HLT (Hot Liquor Tank... or all your hot water), the HEX (Heat Exchanger... maybe the wort temperature into your HERMS coil?), the HERM (wort temperature out of the coil? I'm guessing here), and the MLT (the temperature of your wort in the mash tun).

In other words, you're dedicating 4 PIDs (or just temp readouts) and temperature probes to measuring what I can only guess are 4 temperatures that are going to be within 2-3* of each other...

Do you have a separate post where you detail the thought process behind this setup? I'd be curious to see what it is...

I haven't started a build thread yet but yes, you are close. I have a hybrid system that mainly uses propane but also have a separate HERMS chamber that is electronic. I'm also going to add an element in my HLT to allow me to heat up strike water while I'm sleeping. I came across some nicer PIDs that were being thrown out so I figured why not use them. For now I'd like to keep everything on 120 V so can can brew in anyone's garage but am specing everything to allow me to go full electric down the road if I want to.

Bigscience said:

I'm laying my panel out with Visio since it lets me put in exact measurements and easily move things around. One thing I'm finding though is seeing them on the panel itself gives a better perspective. To do this I printed drawings of each component on card stock out at scale and then put them on the panel. I still haven't got it all dialed in but I think I get closer everyday. Looking at what others are doing helps out too.

Click to expand...

Pretty cool set up.
It's interesting about the hex and the 110v ability. I use to take my gear just about anywhere. Man it's a pain but you you get really efficient about what to bring, and that one thing you forgot.

I do all my stuff in illustrator, I run macs so and use illustrator everyday so it makes it easy for me to design. It looks like I am going to have to redesign with more lights. I talked with Scott over at ebrewsupply.com and decided to go with the 3 element bcs with a few changes which means more lights that aren't switches.

Parts came. It feels like Christmas.

Final tape out before I start making holes!