trub/carbonation/cold crash..... bitter trub

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iambeer

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The biggest worry now is how to end the fermentation and prepare it for bottles.

I cold crash in a Mr Beer keg because it fits in the fridge. But when it's time to add the carb sugar, I don't know what to do. Do I stir it (which stirs whatever has taken days to settle)? Do I let pour it in and simply close the lid and hope the sugar spreads out evenly? Do I pour it and wait some time and hope the yeast doesn't have an unpressurized snack?

I just bottled a cold crashed (in secondary) dark mild which had been excessively bitter during the nearly two weeks it has been fermenting, a big difference from the previous dark mild with same recipe. The last bottle has a considerable about of trub in it which makes it undrinkable.

Can I just BUY something to remove the trub? (I have begun using whirflock tabs). Should I siphon a few more times? Will buying a wort chiller help? Obviously I don't want to use the word 'filter' because the oxidation police will pipe up.

Panic mode: On
 
On the last bottle: After pouring the contents through a coffee filter, it seems 'decent'. I need it to be decent before filtering. :p
 
Why are you cold crashing a beer in the first place? If you don't want the trub, I would suggest getting a secondary fermentation bucket with an auto-siphon. It will allow you to remove it and then let it age and mellow out.

Most dark/heavy beers need a few extra weeks to mellow out.

How is the carb levels in the bottles?
 
I don't understand. I do siphon into a secondary which is cold crashed. It's a low sugar beer 3.5% ish abv mild that doesn't need aging.
 
Ok, I skipped over some stuff in your original post.

How often are you tasting this beer, and how long are you letting it ferment. Also what is the temperature that it is fermenting at.

Additionally what are you using to clean/sanitize the supplies?
 
I guess you want to tell me to wait it out and to relax and drink beer. That's actually not always the answer you know. I have bitter trub in the beer. I want it out, and I'm not going to wait 3 months for it to magically decompose in the beer. I'm either doing something wrong or I need to add something to my process.
 
After you cold crash the beer, you can rack it to a bottling bucket, leaving the trub behind.

While you get ready to rack to the bottling bucket, you can dissolve the priming sugar and put it in the bottling bucket so that when you rack the beer, you can lay the tube in a circle on the bottle of the bucket and let it swirl and fill from the bottom to mix. That ensures the trub is left behind, and that the priming solution is evenly mixed.
 
To quote the ancient romans; Beware young maidens
& value your wine. Beware of young men in their velvet prime. how deaply they'll drink from your finest kegs...leaving you...with bitter dregs.Aaaah ahaah...bitter dregs. It needs to settle out clear or slightly misty before bottling. Less bitter dregs that way.
 
Could I instead buy a submerged pump and a trub filter to move beer only once to a bottling bucket/cold crasher? I read that a stainless steel mesh filter that features 0.5mm pores would be small enough to filter out a significant amount of trub and hop material but large enough not to easily clog. Does anyone do this?

unionrdr: It fermented two weeks and it was in the fridge for 3 days.... I just figure waiting more time is a non-issue. I just can't believe how much trub I still had after I carefully siphoned it and cold crashed it.
 
It's still easier to let it settle out clear or slightly misty before racking to the bottling bucket. That's what I do.
 
I guess you want to tell me to wait it out and to relax and drink beer. That's actually not always the answer you know. I have bitter trub in the beer. I want it out, and I'm not going to wait 3 months for it to magically decompose in the beer. I'm either doing something wrong or I need to add something to my process.

No, those were my questions to you, so that I could better understand what you were doing and take a look at your brewing process. It wouldn't have been till subsequent posts that I told you to relax and have a beer.
 
People buy less necessary tools to save a day or two (stir plate). Or to save 15 minutes (wort chiller). Why not buy a trub filter? Even if I wait another week, at least some trub is going to get sucked out. After I filtered the sample through a coffee filter, I could tell it's ready.
 
You could also be more careful when pouring the beer into the fermentation bucket to not get that stuff in there. I use a funnel with a screen on it. Then I find that I don't have to much trub in the primary.
 
People buy less necessary tools to save a day or two (stir plate). Or to save 15 minutes (wort chiller). Why not buy a trub filter? Even if I wait another week, at least some trub is going to get sucked out. After I filtered the sample through a coffee filter, I could tell it's ready.

Most filters that filter down far enough to remove all of the sediment out of your beer will also remove yeast. You also have to filter clear beer at the start, otherwise you clog the pads.

I still think it'd be far easier (not to mention cheaper) to just rack to a bottling bucket.
 
Yooper, I'm talking about a .5 mm filter which is a lot bigger than yeast. http://www.brewershardware.com/FILTER1.html

wkowlks, what kind of filter? Is that the kind that fine sand could get through?

That's not a filter- that is just a strainer that is used PRE fermentation. It won't do a thing about trub or yeast sediment post-fermentation.
 
There's a few things you can do without getting a filter to fix your problem.
1 use Irish moss in boil
2 when cool whirlpool the wort in the kettle and let it sit till it stops then siphon wort from the side of the kettle to your fermenter leaving the sediment behind in your kettle
3 get a bottling bucket don't bottle straight from fermenter. A plastic spigot is less than four dollars from lhbs and five gallon bucket less than three bucks at HD. Drill a hole add spigot that's it.
 
If your beer is done fermenting and is clear above the trub, just bottle it and the trub will stay behind. If it isn't settled, wait for it to settle. A few extra days on the trub will do a heck of a lot less damage to your beer than trying to mess around with filters (unless you're kegging and can use a pressure filter) and probably will make a better beer. Stuff like coffee filters and the like at this point will do nothing but oxidize your beer.

I let mine sit on the trub in the fermenter anywhere from between 10 and 20 days and have NEVER had any bad taste problems.

You will get always get sediment (even if you do filter it somehow) from the carbonation no matter how clear it is when it goes into the bottle

bosco
 
Heck, even if it's not clear so's you can read a paper thru it.. and it won't be..

When it is finished fermenting, as when the hydrometer reading is the same for a couple of days. That will let the beer finish without all the trub you are concerned about. There will be more that will settle out in that secondary but you will still have goo yeast in suspension. Do you have a bottling bucket? I use one with a tap on the bottom. Sanitize the bucket and your racking device/tubing.. dump the boiled sugar water in that bottling bucket and then carefully rack (no splashing) into that bucket. If you keep the end of your siphon above the little trub that will collect in the secondary, you'll be golden. I get a long stainless spoon and sanitize it. After I finish siphoning into the bottling bucket, I carefully stir from the bottom to the top a number of time being careful to NOT splash or cause air to mix into the beer. Then begin your bottling process. You should be good. No splashing and keep everything sanitized and covered as much as possible during the process.

Good luck
 
Thank you all. I really appreciate the responses. I will be drilling all your tips over and over because I have many gallons to bottle before summer holiday and I'm really not looking forward to it. I don't feel too confident about it but maybe it will be easier done now that I'm more aware of getting around this problem.

And when I start cooking wort again I'll be sure to strain the wort from kettle to fermenting vessel. The plastic filter/funnel looks good. I also read that a high quality bouillon strainer is really good for catching tiny particles.. anyone have experience with the Mafter bouillon strainer or think it's overkill?
 
Thank you all. I really appreciate the responses. I will be drilling all your tips over and over because I have many gallons to bottle before summer holiday and I'm really not looking forward to it. I don't feel too confident about it but maybe it will be easier done now that I'm more aware of getting around this problem.

And when I start cooking wort again I'll be sure to strain the wort from kettle to fermenting vessel. The plastic filter/funnel looks good. I also read that a high quality bouillon strainer is really good for catching tiny particles.. anyone have experience with the Mafter bouillon strainer or think it's overkill?

I don't strain my wort going into the fermenter, but if you want to that's fine. Keep in mind that it won't stop the post- fermentation trub from forming in the bottom of the fermenter. You'll still have plenty of trub from the suspended proteins and yeast falling out when the beer clears. That's why you should rack from the fermenter to the bottling bucket.
 
read revvys bottling thread...it will solve your problem,https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/bottling-tips-homebrewer-94812/
you need a bottling bucket....way cheaper than a pump and filters and will do exactly what you are wanting. once your beer settles and clears there is NO WAY to incorporate the priming sugar in bulk without stirring all of the gunk back up unless you rack to a new vessel first,
 
For the record, I have been using a bottling bucket. I siphon from a carboy to a Mr Beer Keg. The problem was that yes, I use the keg for cold crashing first and adding sugar later. The beer needs to be as still and clear as the starry night sky when bottling, isn't that right? No one has said 'fear oxidation' so I guess siphoning again is reasonable. I don't think my primary fits in the fridge but if it did, I guess that would be preferable(?)
 
I always cold crash...eack to a secondary and right to the fridge for a couple of days...then pour my priming sugar into the bottling bucket and rack the cold beer right on top of it and bottle.
 
Your beer does not need to be clear when you bottle it. I've bottled and kegged beers that are cloudy when I bottle them, but then clear during conditioning.
If you're worried about adding sugar and causing your cold crash beer to get cloudy, you can add the sugar directly to each bottle, rather than to the bottling bucket.
 
For the record, I have been using a bottling bucket. I siphon from a carboy to a Mr Beer Keg. The problem was that yes, I use the keg for cold crashing first and adding sugar later. The beer needs to be as still and clear as the starry night sky when bottling, isn't that right? No one has said 'fear oxidation' so I guess siphoning again is reasonable. I don't think my primary fits in the fridge but if it did, I guess that would be preferable(?)


I don't understand. If you are racking to the bottling bucket from the mr beer keg, then there are no worries.

Racking to the bottling bucket with the sugar is the last thing you do before immediately filling the bottles.
 
A Mafter bouillon strainer is nothing more than a fine strainer used to get out fine particles from soups and sauces. It will still allow a good amount of soft cheesey stuff through it and clog up constantly.

In cooking if you want to make a crystal clear comsume (broth) a Mafter ( a brand name for a chinois ) will not fill the bill. There is only one way to acheive the clarity you appear to be in search of (in a boullion) and that is by using a combination meat, vegetable and meal raft that is floated on the liquid and as the liquid simmers the raft collects all the proteins and other gunk leaving behind a true comsume (clear liquid).

This is the same as in brewing only instead of a raft on the surface the cloudy yeast and other stuff collects in the trub on the bottom. In both instances time is needed or as in some commercial large scale operations (brewing or soup making) filters can be used to get the same result.

For me, I'll let the trub do all the work, besides a good chinois costs more than a fifty pound sack of Maris Otter and would probably get clogged up with the first bit of trub being just a needless PIA.

I've added all I can to this one.. Hope it was of some help. If not that's OK as well.

OMO

bosco
 
Thanks Bosco, that's definitely helpful. Not to be rude, but have you actually used the Mafter bouillon on stock or on wort? It sounds like you woudln't buy one so maybe you are a chef?
 
I don't understand. If you are racking to the bottling bucket from the mr beer keg, then there are no worries.

Racking to the bottling bucket with the sugar is the last thing you do before immediately filling the bottles.

Apologies Yooper. I'm totally confusing the issue. It sounds like I need three vessels if I am going to cold crash. Thanks
 
Thanks Bosco, that's definitely helpful. Not to be rude, but have you actually used the Mafter bouillon on stock or on wort? It sounds like you woudln't buy one so maybe you are a chef?


Not a chef but grew up in as well as owned and operated two restaurants, one Italian American and the other American/International style. I have used most items ( yes to your question as far as using a chinois ) that can be found in the industry.

Items like the chinois are needed for many things, but not for getting anything to the crystal clear mode. About as effective as 3-4 layers of cheese cloth.

bosco
 
Apologies Yooper. I'm totally confusing the issue. It sounds like I need three vessels if I am going to cold crash. Thanks

Well, no, you don't need three vessels- not at all. You can brew the beer, and let it ferment. When it's done, you can cold crash if you'd like. Then, on bottling day, rack the beer to the bottling bucket. That's the way it's done. You don't want to stir up anything in the fermenter, so you remove the beer from the fermenter by racking it off of the trub and into the priming solution and proceed with bottling.

It's super easy.
 
I see. In my case, I don't want to ferment in mr beer keg but it so happens that it does quietly fit in my fridge between the broccoli and the milk. Mr beer keg was my cold crash and bottling bucket because of the spigot, but now i see the error of that plan. So because of limited fridge space, 3 vessels for me. I figure minimal splashing and the cold temp will minimize oxidation. If not I'll revise. For now I'm just glad to have a plan against trub.
 
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