Cascadian Dark Ale/ Black IPA - No Carafa!

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alexdagrate

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Location
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I'd like to make a Cascadian Dark Ale /Black IPA like the Stone Sublimely Self Righteous or the Black Brutal Bitter, but I can't find any Carafa III Special locally and it's too expensive to ship for me.

Is it possible to use chocolate malt or black patent malt and achieve a similar result? Some folks have mentioned cold-steeping, and I've seen some Black IPA recipes on this board using chocolate malt.


Any ideas?
 
Got access to any de-bittered black? I've substituted that for Carafa special before and it was fine. I have also heard of people using chocolate/black patent late in the mash to get color and reduce some of the bitterness.
 
Thanks, Austin!

I ended up just steeping one pound of black patent for 10 minutes at 160 degrees. I got all the color I needed and the beer just tasted like a normal IPA.
 
recipes please.. i've been wanting to do one of these since i started..

I don't have my exact recipe in front of me, but I basically just threw something together to try it out, and it turned out better than I expected:

5.5 lbs Ultralight Liquid Malt Extract
2 lbs Crystal Malt 60 - Steeped 30 min at 160 degrees
1 lb Black Patent Malt - Steeped 10 min at 160 degrees

1 oz Columbus Hop Pellets at 60 min
1 oz Bravo Whole Hops at 60 min
1 oz Cascade Whole Hops at 15 min
.5 oz Simcoe Whole Hops at 15 min
.5 Amarillo Whole Hops at 15 min
1 oz Cascade Whole Hops at 1 min
1 teaspon Irish Moss

1 oz Cascade Dry Hops in Secondary

WYEAST Liquid American Ale Yeast.
 
Thanks, Austin!

I ended up just steeping one pound of black patent for 10 minutes at 160 degrees. I got all the color I needed and the beer just tasted like a normal IPA.

So you didn't get any of the darker malt characteristics that you would see in a Stone Sublimely Self Righteous or Widmer W'10 Black IPA?

I only ask because I am not brewing this just to add a dark color to a normal IPA.
 
recipes please.. i've been wanting to do one of these since i started..

this is my all late hopped black ipa. it is awesome. if you don't want to do all late hops you can do an ounce or two of columbus for bittering. this recipe is for a 12 gallon batch

OG 1.065

24# Two Row
2# Munich
2# Crystal 15L
1# Crystal 40L
2# Carafa II (de husked)

Hops:

This gave me 42 IBUs Rager in Beer Calculus

Boil 20 mins 2.0oz Amarillo pellet 7.5%
Boil 20 mins 1.0oz Columbus pellet 14.0%
Boil 10 mins 2.0oz Amarillo pellet 7.5%
Boil 10 mins 1.0oz Columbus pellet 14.4%
Boil 1 min 2.0oz Amarillo pellet 7.5%
Boil 1 min 1.0oz Columbus pellet 14.0%
Dry 7 days 2.0oz Amarillo pellet 7.5%

Yeast: Wyeast 1028 London Ale w/ starter.

2ciijrc.jpg
 
Well here is mine. I have brewed this 6 times and have a hard time keeping in on tap. I tried 5 different versions before I settled on this one and I love it. I have yet to find one of my friends or family who dosen't like this brew.

Size: 5.5 gal
Efficiency: 75.0% - Attenuation: 75.0%

Original Gravity: 1.073 (1.056 - 1.075) - Terminal Gravity: 1.018 (1.010 - 1.018)
Color: 19.35 - Alcohol: 7.24% - Bitterness: 103.6

Ingredients:
13 lb American 2-row
8.0 oz Caramel Malt 20L
8.0 oz Brown Malt
8.0 oz White Wheat Malt
8.0 oz Belgian Aromatic
4 oz Kiln Coffee Malt
8 oz Pale Chocolate Malt
2 oz Roasted Barley
.5 oz Warrior (16.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
.5 oz Columbus (15.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
.5 oz Summit (17.0%) - added during boil, boiled 30 min
.5 oz Columbus (15.0%) - added during boil, boiled 30 min
.5 oz Mt. Hood (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 15 min
1 oz East Kent Goldings (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 10 min
1 oz East Kent Goldings (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 1 min
1.0 ea Fermentis US-05 Safale US-05
.5 oz Summit (17.0%) - added dry to secondary fermenter
.5 oz Mt. Hood (5.0%) - added dry to secondary fermenter
1 oz Cascade (5.5%) - added dry to secondary fermenter
 
Here is my take on the style. I brewed this right after my Rangers whupped those damn yanks!!!

Yankee Killer Texas Cascadian Dark Ale
AKA Kerry...Black as hell, refuses to act like you think it should, a little bitter, & it'll kick your ass!!!

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Taste Notes: Distinct grapefruit flavor. I mean REALLY grapefruitty! Close your eyes and its an IPA...but wait...there's more! Smokey undertones. Brings out unique character in the hops you just wouldn't get with a traditional IPA

1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [Starter 1000 ml] Yeast-Ale

11 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 82.21 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 7.47 %
12.0 oz Carafa II (412.0 SRM) Grain 5.61 %
10.1 oz Special Roast (50.0 SRM) Grain 4.71 %

60 min. Single Infusion mash; Batch sparge

60 min 1.00 oz Warrior [17.20 %] (60 min) Hops
30 min 1.50 oz Cascade [5.90 %] (30 min) Hops
15 min 0.50 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
15 min 0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
5 min 0.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.40 %] (5 min) Hops
5 min 0.50 oz Summit [18.50 %] (5 min) Hops
2 min 0.75 oz Warrior [17.20 %] (2 min) Hops

Primary fermentation (14 days at 68.0 F)
Secondary fermentation (14 days at 68.0 F)
Dry hop 1st 7 days of secondary
0.25 oz Warrior [17.20 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
0.50 oz Cascade [5.90 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -

Target: 1.057 SG
1.014 FG
5.74% ABV & 74 IBU
 
Anyone hear/see competition style guidelines for this yet?

Here is the link to the entire BYO article that reported it...

http://***********/component/resource/article/2072-birth-of-a-new-style-cascadian-dark-ale

...but I'll quote the proposed specs and style descriptors and the GABF accepted parameters. BJCP entries should be entered in style 23 but labeled Cascadian Dark Ale (or Black IPA, meh)...I hate that people use the regional exclusivity argument. If you brew a Pilsner is it too regionally exclusive to call it a Pilsner? Can't I brew a Pilsner (or Burton Ale, or Russian Imperial Stout, or Irish Stout, or Scotch Ale...) in Texas and still call it a Pilsner? So why can't it be a CDA, whether you brew it in the heart of Washington or the heart of Texas or the heart of the freakin Congo? I feel it is just paying respect to our hop growing compatriots in the great Northwest....

Rant Over :D

A quick review of the specifications we proposed will provide your first clue:

Color = 30+ SRM
Original gravity = 1.060–1.080
Final gravity = 1.010–1.016
Bitterness = 50–90 IBU
Alcohol by volume = 6.0–8.5%

Your second clue is a list of the proposed style descriptors:

Aroma – Prominent Northwest variety hop aromas – resinous pine, citrus, sweet malt, hints of roast malt, chocolate and/or Carafa®, can include mild coffee notes, dry hopped character is often present.

Appearance – Deep brown to black with ruby highlights. Head varies from white to tan/khaki.

Flavor – A balance between citrus like and spicy Northwest hop flavor, bitterness, caramel and roast, chocolate, or Carafa® type malts. Any roast character should be subdued. Black malt is acceptable at low levels but should not be astringent. Any burnt character is not appropriate. The finish should be dry with caramel malt as a secondary flavor. Diacetyl should not be present. The main emphasis should be on hop flavor.

Mouthfeel – Light to medium, hop bitterness and tannins from roast malts combine to create a dry mouthfeel. Resinous character from high levels of dry hopping may create a tongue coating sensation.

Comments – Some brewers prefer to cold steep the dark grains to achieve a very dark beer without the tannin contribution of adding these grains to the mash. The use of Sinamar® color extract to enhance the color is common.

What differentiates Cascadian dark ale from a hoppy porter or stout? There are really three main differences. The first would be the basic hop profile. These beers are brewed using traditional IPA bittering, flavor and aroma hops with citrus, spice and floral characteristics. Typical hop selections would be Columbus, Centennial, Chinook, Amarillo, Simcoe and Cascade or hybrids of these like Warrior or Magnum. The second would be the vastly reduced roast malt flavor contributions. The use of debittered Carafa® malts instead of black patent or roast barley. This provides color without the harsher, burnt flavor profiles of robust porters or stouts. And finally, the third is the much drier finish. This is achieved through the use of very little light caramel malts and highly attenuative yeasts.


Charlie Papazian had completed the style update for 2010 and included this new style. The name “Cascadian” was deleted as it was felt that non-Northwestern brewers may be turned off to the style if it hinted of regional exclusivity. The accepted name is American-Style India Black Ale. The style descriptors remained relatively unchanged but some of the basic specifications were scaled back. Here are the finalized GABF numbers:

Color = 25+ SRM
Original Gravity = 1.056–1.075
Final Gravity = 1.012–1.018
Bitterness = 50–70 IBU
Alcohol by volume = 6–7.5%

The BJCP does not update their style guidelines yearly, as the GABF does, and Cascadian dark ale has not been accepted as an official BJCP beer style. Unofficial feedback from BJCP officials indicates that, if examples of this beer start showing up at homebrew contests at a reasonable frequency, it could be included in the next style guideline revisions. (If you choose to compete with this style, enter it in Category 23 and describe the beer as a Cascadian dark ale, an India Black Ale or Black IPA.)
 
I feel it is just paying respect to our hop growing compatriots in the great Northwest....

Rant Over :D

Briess is located just over a hour from my house. I'll expect anyone making a beer with Carapils or Victory to start calling it Badger Ale out of respect. Actually, I wouldn't, since we aren't as in love with ourselves as some parts of the country.
 
Only those who know what Cascadia is all about will call it Cascadian Dark Ale.
The rest are lost in the Dark.
 
I'd like to make a Cascadian Dark Ale /Black IPA like the Stone Sublimely Self Righteous or the Black Brutal Bitter, but I can't find any Carafa III Special locally and it's too expensive to ship for me.

Is it possible to use chocolate malt or black patent malt and achieve a similar result? Some folks have mentioned cold-steeping, and I've seen some Black IPA recipes on this board using chocolate malt.


Any ideas?
Ive made a couple CDA's, but I just did a Black Saison, but didnt want any roast flavor and only had Black Malt, so I made my recipe and added the black during mash out and held at 170* and stirred for 10 miuntes, then lautered. Worked great.
 
I think Ill try putting some Pauls dark in at mash out for my Black Belgian IPA or maybe Ill call a "Cascadian BelgHop" :)

Or I might just do a cold steep with a pound of dark over night as Ive done before with good results.

Did you manage to avoid most of the black malt flavours adding at mash out?

Thanks
 
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