Hobbit Brew?

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hoffmeister

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Okay, so I'm going to expose my dorkiness to all of you, but I think you might be able to help me. This was partially encouraged by a posting a saw for Butterbeer, from the Harry Potter books. I'm a huge J.R.R. Tolkien fan, and when I was recently watching Fellowship two scenes got me thinking. In one, during Bilbo's birthday party, Frodo accuses him of drinking too much of the Gaffer's ale, to which Bilbo admits that he has. Later, at the Prancing Pony, the hobbits are delighted when they find they can get beer in pints.

Now my question is, what type of beer would hobbits drink? Would the beer they brew in Hobbiton be different from the beer brewed in Bree, since they are for different clientele, or would they be similar? I know there's not any sort of indication of what their preference in beer might be, but I thought it might be fun to come up with a recipe for either the Gaffer's ale or Bree ale, or both. I'm thinking something like a mild brown ale or bitter for the Gaffer's, and maybe a hearty brown ale or even a porter for Bree, since there are men there and its a bit rougher of an area. Any thoughts/suggestions would be welcome, but please keep comments about my nerdiness to yourselves :)
 
That is too cool.

Bree's proximity would have yielded similar ingredients to work with, but they probably had to have a steady supply at the prancing pony, so that might have led to stretching the batches etc. Lots of possible variables.

The gaffer probably put some wierd herbs in his brew.

Is Tolkien still alive? He went so insanely into detail in those books(writing 30 some pages of songs for the books instead of just saying "and then they sang a cheery tune")
 
The Drizzle said:
There has to be a morbidly obese mid-30's guy somewhere who will pry himself away from WoW and be able to answer your question.

No reason to be a complete ass. I'm a 24 year old, married to a hotty, college graduate, won't play WoW, homebrewer that ****ing LOVES tolkien. So back off.

I think the beer is a killer idea, I'm gonna think about it a little more and post my thoughts.
 
cheezydemon said:
That is too cool.

Bree's proximity would have yielded similar ingredients to work with, but they probably had to have a steady supply at the prancing pony, so that might have led to stretching the batches etc. Lots of possible variables.

The gaffer probably put some wierd herbs in his brew.

Is Tolkien still alive? He went so insanely into detail in those books(writing 30 some pages of songs for the books instead of just saying "and then they sang a cheery tune")

Tolkien died a while ago, his son has editted some of his old notes and turned them into books that got published recently, so he's still kinda "writing from the grave" so to speak.
 
I don't think he was attacking tolkien fans, and he is probably right. And in all fairness you aren't hooked up to a cathedor so that you can play wow without taking a break, and you don't have the answer right on the tip of your tongue.

Someone that doesn't have a "hottie" at home, didn't go to college, and is still living at home playing wow has lots more time to think about **** like this.

Between my hottie and our 3 kids this has never occured to me to do.

*****

MOD EDIT (BIRD): Don't apologize for "not being PC," please try and not post things that are intentionally non-PC, m'key? Slurs aren't acceptable here.
 
Ó Flannagáin said:
Tolkien died a while ago, his son has editted some of his old notes and turned them into books that got published recently, so he's still kinda "writing from the grave" so to speak.

Right, but he can't give us his opinions on it. Wasn't he alive when the movies were made? I remember the director consulted him on pronunciations.
 
Boy.. given what he put in creating a language from scratch, he could have written down some recipes...

The beer must have been good, the Hobbits look pretty happy people.
 
cheezydemon said:
Right, but he can't give us his opinions on it. Wasn't he alive when the movies were made? I remember the director consulted him on pronunciations.

No, he was alive for the cartoons in the 70's, but not for the movies. The director worked with the big artists that used to illustrate for tolkien books all the time. I believe the main one was Alan Lee.

It was a personal attack, the dude asked to refrain from nerd comments specifically in his post. If you don't find interest in a thread, then don't post in it. I thought the Harry Potter idea was decent as well. I'm not a big harry potter fan, but some of the more recent books were good reads.
 
I seem to recall at least one other scene where Merry and Pippin drink beer.

Its after Isengard has fallen to the Ents. Merry and Pippin are left at a destroyed gatehouse and find some bacon, tobacco, and I belive, some beer. I think they have a discussion comparing it to Shire beer. Might be some clues there...

Its been a long time since I read this, so I can't recall clearly.

It might be in Unfinished Tales and not in the main text of LoTR.

When I get home from work tonight I'll see if I can find it.
 
Beerthoven said:
I seem to recall at least one other scene where Merry and Pippin drink beer.

Its after Isengard has fallen to the Ents. Merry and Pippin are left at a destroyed gatehouse and find some bacon, tobacco, and I belive, some beer. I think they have a discussion comparing it to Shire beer. Might be some clues there...

Its been a long time since I read this, so I can't recall clearly.

It might be in Unfinished Tales and not in the main text of LoTR.

When I get home from work tonight I'll see if I can find it.

At first I was thinking about getting ideas from the movie by seeing if the beer they drank splashed over their mugs and see what color it was, but then I realized, that Tolkien had nothing to do with the movies art direction, so it would be of little relevance, I think I will stick to searching out ideas from the text itself.
 
Ó Flannagáin said:
At first I was thinking about getting ideas from the movie by seeing if the beer they drank splashed over their mugs and see what color it was, but then I realized, that Tolkien had nothing to do with the movies art direction, so it would be of little relevance, I think I will stick to searching out ideas from the text itself.

I'm talking about the books, not the movies. I don't think the movies would be reliable on this point, either.

Check out Unfinished Tales if you haven't already. There is a lot of fun and interesting stuff in there that Tolkien wrote that didn't make it into the final LoTR books.
 
Beerthoven said:
I'm talking about the books, not the movies. I don't think the movies would be reliable on this point, either.

My bad, the word "scene" I always relate to films. I never think about how it's used in books as well. :mug:
 
Ó Flannagáin said:
No reason to be a complete ass. I'm a 24 year old, married to a hotty, college graduate, won't play WoW, homebrewer that ****ing LOVES tolkien. So back off.

I thought he meant the WoW comment in jest, I was LOLing..... I'm surrounded by WoW players though... I never made it past Lv 35.... I lack attention span.

I need a homebrewing video game. :D

Anyways, I would think that a Middle Earth beer might be something close to an English Old Ale or a Mild.... both are fairly historic styles. Herbs will be difficult to estimate, though, because of the differences between our worlds.....

Just found through Wiki that the Prancing Pony was where the practice of smoking pipe-weed began, and then spread through Middle Earth. Maybe that's the secret ingredient?
 
I don't remember the books getting into much detail about the drink, but I haven't read them since I started brewing. If there are any hints, they shouldn't be hard to find since the references would be in the first few chapters.

I'm a bit of a LoTR geek myself and would enjoy brewing something in hobbit style. Let me know if you find anything interesting.

Oh, and Tolkien's sons penned the Simerillian. Haven't read those yet, but will eventually.
 
Yes I remember them drinking a lot actually. They did find some longbottom leaf as I recall after the sacking of Isengard. As for the beer, I bet a google search would turn up some results.

As for HP, sorry if I spoke harshly, the books must be decent and the movies are decent enough. They were all written too recently, and there are too many 8 year old girls reading HP, it is too trendy for me to take seriously. Silly I know but I can't help it.
 
The Drizzle said:
There has to be a morbidly obese mid-30's guy somewhere who will pry himself away from WoW and be able to answer your question.
Ó Flannagáin said:
No reason to be a complete ass.

IB4TL.........

ib4tl.JPG
 
I suspect they would use hops, not herbs. Tolkien tended to use English culture as a base for a lot of the customs of the hobbits. So like everyone was saying, I bet it was some sort of English mild or brown, but, hobbits liked to be happy, so I suspect the ABV was a bit high. A pipe, and a warm ya up beer. Now, if Bilbo, or a female hobbit was brewing, there might be some spices or herbs in there, but when I think of the gaffer, I think of a traditionalist who would stick with the barley and hops simple ale. But what about yeast? I doubt they cultured yeast back then and probably had a slight sourness to the ale.
 
cheezydemon said:
...They were all written too recently, and there are too many 8 year old girls reading HP, it is too trendy for me to take seriously. Silly I know but I can't help it.

lol, agreed, I thought my wife was such a nerd when she would read a whole HP book in a day or two, but then I picked up the one that came out before the last one and read it on a whim and kind of got sucked in. Rowlings a pretty good storyteller. I would NEVER call them classics, but a good read nonetheless.
 
Ó Flannagáin said:
I suspect they would use hops, not herbs.

I disagree. Early english ales and the rest of the continent were made with many herbs other than hops. in fact there was a lot of resistance to the use of hops. I believe I read they even passed a law in london to prevent their usage. According to a book I have been reading. "Sacred Herbal Healing beers"

I think you should research Gruit ales. They were brewed with may herbs but mostly 3 main herbs. Myrica gale, yarrow, and wild marsh rosmary.

As a side note. In the context of Tolkein, The author of aforementioned book suggests that the dwarves in Tolkeins books were based on the pictish peoples of Scotland.
 
Ó Flannagáin said:
I suspect they would use hops, not herbs. Tolkien tended to use English culture as a base for a lot of the customs of the hobbits. So like everyone was saying, I bet it was some sort of English mild or brown, but, hobbits liked to be happy, so I suspect the ABV was a bit high. A pipe, and a warm ya up beer. Now, if Bilbo, or a female hobbit was brewing, there might be some spices or herbs in there, but when I think of the gaffer, I think of a traditionalist who would stick with the barley and hops simple ale. But what about yeast? I doubt they cultured yeast back then and probably had a slight sourness to the ale.

Agreed, with out real refridgeration, wild yeast and then yeast cakes would have been cultivated and kept going.

On BYO there is an interesting article on a brewery re-creating some old recipes (as in ancient).

The Gaffer was an earthy old gardener, that's why I thought herbs or ginger or something like that, but maybe not!
 
knights of Gambrinus said:
I disagree. Early english ales and the rest of the continent were made with many herbs other than hops. in fact there was a lot of resistance to the use of hops. I believe I read they even passed a law in london to prevent their usage. According to a book I have been reading. "Sacred Herbal Healing beers"

I think you should research Gruit ales. They were brewed with may herbs but mostly 3 main herbs. Myrica gale, yarrow, and wild marsh rosmary.

As a side note. In the context of Tolkein, The author of aforementioned book suggests that the dwarves in Tolkeins books were based on the pictish peoples of Scotland.

I have been schooled! Very cool, I didn't know any of that. Now, the dwarves were probably making scottish style ales, but I don't think the hobbits learned a lot of their ways from the dwarves. In fact, I don't think they even liked the dwarves that much.
 
Ó Flannagáin said:
No reason to be a complete ass. I'm a 24 year old, married to a hotty, college graduate, won't play WoW, homebrewer that ****ing LOVES tolkien. So back off.

I think the beer is a killer idea, I'm gonna think about it a little more and post my thoughts.


Hahaha, hit a nerve did I? I do love a hole in one!
 
I will pose a hypothesis. Do with it as you will. I propose that humans in middle earth perhaps drank hopped new-fangled beers while the other inhabitants being more in tune with ancient ways and connected with the earth brewed ancient brews.

As to how they taste I dunno. There are many recipes in the book I spoke of, and apparently their are societies of hobbyists who have recreated these. According to the author these herbal beers were actually more intoxicating, potent and at times psychotropic in nature depending on the herbs used.

I think this is a pretty interesting idea. Given the current hop shortage it would be an apropos time to experiment perhaps.
 
knights of Gambrinus said:
According to the author these herbal beers were actually more intoxicating, potent and at times psychotropic in nature depending on the herbs used.


Hence the Church monopoly I have read.
 
The Drizzle said:
Hence the Church monopoly I have read.

Yes, he proposes that the switch to hops had alot to do with politics and the reformation. He also speculates that the german purity laws were actually one of the first anti-drug laws ever in that they demanded the use of hops over more "dangerous" herbs. Hops were safer because they induced sleep more than any other effect.

Take it or leave it. :D
 
knights of Gambrinus said:
Yes, he proposes that the switch to hops had alot to do with politics and the reformation. He also speculates that the german purity laws were actually one of the first anti-drug laws ever in that they demanded the use of hops over more "dangerous" herbs. Hops were safer because they induced sleep more than any other effect.

Take it or leave it. :D

Yes, i've been hankering to give a wild gruit a try see if I can get any of those *ahem* effects
105whistle6pk.gif
 
I enjoy tangents and differences of opinion. I took your comments good naturedly drizzle
I admire your defense of Tolkien against the percieved insult oflannagan.

CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!!!!Lol

I suggest that we settle on a style and recipe an all of us that give a **** can brew it. Sound cool? GOOD!

Who's with me?
 
cheezydemon said:
I enjoy tangents and differences of opinion. I took your comments good naturedly drizzle
I admire your defense of Tolkien against the percieved insult oflannagan.

CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!!!!Lol

I suggest that we settle on a style and recipe an all of us that give a **** can brew it. Sound cool? GOOD!

Who's with me?
:mug:


10carrots
 
Well, I'm pretty sure there's specific mention of porter in The Hobbit (one of the dwarves asks for it) but other than the fact that the beer was made with locally grown barley I'm not aware of other details. I remember coming across a webpage a few years ago devoted to this topic, where some guy had compiled all references to beer and brewing in Tolkien's works but I can't find it now (sorry).
 
One beer to be brewed by all, One beer to find them! One beer to consume their thoughts and in the darkness...... get them really sh*tfaced!

I get to be the elf!!! Lol.
 
Holy Crap! I posted this barely an hour and a half ago, and look at the responses! Thanks everyone, I had no idea this would go over so well. I think the general consensus so far has been a mild brown for the Hobbiton region, I think that opting for herbs rather than hops is a good way to go. Like someone mentioned, given the current shortage in some areas, this might now be a bad time to give this a try. I'm honestly not too up on my indigenous British herbs, but does anyone have any thoughts as to what might be appropriate? Also, I know it's generally not part of the style of a brown mild, but I was thinking about using a small quantity of oak chips in the secondary to simulate the casks they used, since I'm sure they didn't have glass or stainless fermenters :) Good idea, bad idea?

I did a cursory glance through Fellowship last night and I didn't see anything specifically related to beer, but I'll take a better look when I get home. I'll also consult some of the other materials, as someone suggested. Thanks again everyone, I'm glad this is going over so well!
 
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