30 minute boil

Anyone have experience with a 30 minute boil and adding more hops to get the target IBU's?

I have a brew this weekend and want to experiment with a 30 minute continuous hopping.

I could be completely wrong, but I thought you had to boil hops for longer to get the bitterness...isn't that why hops added at the 30 minute mark usuall referred to as 'flavor hops'?

There was a thread on here about only doing late hop additions giving a smoother hop biterness. Most flavor additions are around 10 mins. But you still get some IBU out of them. You most definitly can do a 30 min boil comma heck I did a 15 min boil for my berliner weisse.

Sure, the longer you boil the more bitterness. Ahhhh, but add more hops and you can achieve the same IBU in less time which, according to recently uncovered documents, is also smoother tasting and less harsh than a full boil.

That's it, i'm brewing 30 minute IPA. Screw those 60 and 90 minute east coast IPA's.

Don't worry, I'll still add the falvor and aroma hops, but the bittering hops are only gettin' 30 mo-fo-minutes.:fro:

Check my recipes button for the proposed recipe.

It'll work but you'll also need more grains to compensate the lack of reduction and lower gravity.

It just sound more expensive to me but if that's not a concern then why not.
There are other ways to save time if that's the issue.

Don't you need at least a good boil for 60 minutes when you do AG ?? Fact or Myth ......????

derogg said:

Don't you need at least a good boil for 60 minutes when you do AG ?? Fact or Myth ......????

Click to expand...

Fact...sorta. Most times it's recommended to do a long boil to coagulate proteins, achieve good hop utlization, drive off unwanted volatlies, and boil off any unwanted volume. However, the hot break (protein coagulation) usually happens very early in the boil, you can add more hops to make up for lost utilization in a short boil (you'll get tons more flavor/aroma that way), and you may not need to boil off much volume if you refine your mash technique to maximize extraction with minimal over-collection.

That leaves the evaporation of volatiles as the only unaccounted for reason to do a long boil. Anybody want to chime in on that?

If you read TCJOHB there's a chart on Hop Utilization...I forget the page, but I've referenced it many times...

Basically, it says that the max extraction (30%) for hop bitterness is done in 1 gal of water with 1 lb of malt and 1 oz of hops giving you a gravity of 1.040.

I've done several 30 min boils. The chart mentions that if you do a 30 min boil and double your hops it's the same bitterness. While this may be true I can also tell you that at 30 mins you are also adding some "hop flavoring" to the brew. In my case it was a Hefe Weizen and did not take away from the taste. I did it for a pale ale and was pleased, but I wouldn't do it again for a HW.

What Yuri says is true for all grain.

I have to tell you that I've done this as a late addition with DME only. If I use any grains I do a 60 min boil.

derogg said:

Don't you need at least a good boil for 60 minutes when you do AG ?? Fact or Myth ......????

Click to expand...

I'd say myth...I've done 30 minute boils and noticed no difference (as far as evaporating volatiles). You just need to increase hop amounts for IBUs and adequately increase grain amounts to compensate for less sparge volume/boil off and volume loss due to increased hops in the kettle.

As others have pointed out, its a trade off between time and cost. It'll save a half an hour, but cost a couple more bucks.

For some AG beers you will need to do a 60+min boil. As Yuri points out some unwanted volatiles - DMS in particular- needs to be driven off to avoid off flavours ("cooked corn") in light lagers, pilsners etc.

GT

Especially true with the lighter kilned malts (pilsner etc) which have more DMS precurser. Can you drive off enough DMS-p in a 30 min boil? Maybe. If you try it and have some vegetal off flavors in your beer, at least you will know where to change.

As for the late hopping it is a great technique. I use it to make 20 minute extract batches (well the boil is only 20 minutes). I can whip out an extract batch of Pale Ale while my AG batch is mashing. No extra clean up twice the beer.

http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=76187

it's a long thread but worth the read. IIRC it starts off as a no boil experiment and evolves into a boil lenght/lid vs no lid/DMS experiment. If you just read Oldfart's posts, you'll get the gist.

Ouch, my eyes....

orfy said:

Ouch, my eyes....

Click to expand...

http://www.brewboard.com/lofiversion/index.php/t76187.html

easier on ya?

My 30-Minute IPA came out great. Click on my recipes below for the Hogfish Dead 30-minute IPA. NO DMS taste, but I boiled on the edge of boil over the entire time.
The continuous hop technique made the beer very rounded. This is the best IPA i've brewed as of yet.

I will be brewing this again.

I'm in search of the perfect North West IPA............

I've done two 30 minute boils. Both turned out fine. One was a Pale where I wanted a lot of hop flavor without too much bitterness.

I do do continuaous hop additions now on many of my beers. I like what it does to the bitterness, aroma, and flavor. I am a bit of a hop head so i love what it did for an amarillo ale I made.

1lb Crystal 20
.5 lb Honey Malt
6lbs Light DME
1oz Amarillo hops (Whole Leaf) divided equally for additions every 5 minutes ove the 60 Minute Boil
1oz Amarillo Hops (Whole Leaf) Dry Hop inn secondary for 1 week.
Wyeast 1056
I kegged but if you are bottling add 1/2 to 3/4 Cup DME or Carb Tabs

I really enjoyed it and plan on making a veriation of it soon. Good luck to anyone who is playing with different hopping methods.

Cheer

It seems as though it would be more cost effective to do an early hop addition for bitterness and then use the rest of your hops at the 15 min mark. With the same amount of hops, this gives more bitterness and very nearly the same amount of flavor as a single 30 min addition.

I don't really worry about hop cost. I have a "relative" in the hops industry and I have a freezer full of vacuum foil bagged hops. I tend to spare no expence in the search for the perfect brew.

For the 30-minute IPA I only had to increase the bittering hop by 50%. The aroma and flavor hops were the same weight, just distributed at even intervals. It was not much of an increase in hop "cost".

I just read Mr.Malty's article. Fantastic. I'll be formulating a new recipe......

I would encourage you to try it. In addition, try scooping out the foam (coagulated proteins) caused at the beginning of the boil with a scoop/screen, which will also help your beers clarity.

It is known that you don't have to let the grains sit in the lauter tun for more than 15 to 20 minutes if you do a single stage temperature infusion. Many breweries do a shorter saccharification to save time. The lautering time will also help the starch conversion. The key is to do an Iodine test to see when all the saccharification rest is complete. This won't work, however, for recipes that call for adjuncts like corn and rice. That is because the saccharification takes longer.

You should try a 15-20 minute saccharification (must use the Iodine test) and 30 minute boil and see what happens.

McTarnamins said:

I have a "relative" in the hops industry and I have a freezer full of vacuum foil bagged hops.

Click to expand...

Mmm, can I adopt that "relative" too?

Most styles you guys are discussing are fairly light - how does this apply to darker, heavier beers? Can one adopt a 30 or perhaps 45 minute boil for something like a brown ale?

Or do the darker brews rely on 60-90 minute boils for caramelization?

What about a Scottish ale? or a stout? Am I being too meticulous? Should I just experiment?

If you feel you need a full 60 minutes because of the grains used, but you want to try the big late hop additions.... Then do just that. No one said you have to add hops at the beginning of the boil. In fact I find it WAY easier to avoid boilovers if I over sparge a bit and boil for 20 minutes before the first addition anyways.

Did a mini-mash Belgium White kit from Austin Brew Supply yesterday and was surprised to see that it directions called for a 30 minute boil. Kept thinking I was missing something, but looks like from this thread that there is such a thing! Good to know I did not screw the pooch!