the holy grail of hop filtering - whole and pellet

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dbrewski

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Ok, I have searched and read on this topic over and over. My brain kind of hurts. Here's my deal. I have used the following: hop bags dropped into the boil, hop spiders with paint bags, bazooka filters, a large homemade hop thingy from SS screen, and no screen. I use whole hops and pellet hops, sometimes both in the same batch. I want a solution that filters out whole and pellet hops at the same time. I use a CFC/pump setup or just an IC depending upon my laziness at the time (no brewstand setup).

I don't like hop bags or spiders because I do not get good utilization, especially with later hops. My hop bag gets clogged up with boil junk probably halfway thru the boil even with whole hops. I can pull the bag up, and it retains wort like a water balloon, so the hops are not getting good flow. So my goal is hops in the full boil, no bag. I moved to a bazooka screen. It clogged with pellet hops, any kind of screen seems to clog with pellets. With whole hops, a screen type filter works fine.

Am I overthinking this? I have not found a solution that works good with a mix of whole and pellet hops. Maybe it's my process not the screen. I have looked at the Hopblocker, I don't have a Blichmann kettle, I've seen the hopstopper, it seems just like my homemade screen solution (maybe it isn't). I thought my homemade job would do the trick, but as I pulled off wort via pump it clogged right away (mix of whole and pellet). Maybe just a gravity drain would have worked better? Here is a pic of it.

Thanks for any tips.

IMAG0138_scaled.jpg
 
Wow, you have put some serious effort into this. I'll be interested to read the suggestions, but I don't have a good one - I leave all of the hop junk in, no filtering, and let the normal settling of fermentation handle it for me.
 
I am just going to toss out 2 ideas/subjects and let you draw your own conclusions...

1. Hop Back
2. Mash Hop

:mug:
 
Here is what I do, but it is so simple that I must be overlooking something. It seems to work fine for me though.

I used the hop sock for a little while and like you thought "surely I can't be getting good utilization". So what I do now is throw my hops in the boil with no hop sock. Once I am done and have chilled my wort I have a bowl shaped strainer with a handle that I balance on top of my bucket (or in a funnel when using a carboy). It really helps to have a second person to hold it so it doesn't fall over. I wrap a paint strainer/hop bag around it and syphon my wort through this. Of course I sanitize everything with Starsan first.

This method gets the job done for me. Of course when I do a big IPA I have to move the hop sludge around or dump it from time to time.

I guess technically this helps get some oxygen into the wort also. Bonus! :rockin:
 
I have a bowl shaped strainer with a handle that I balance on top of my bucket (or in a funnel when using a carboy). It really helps to have a second person to hold it so it doesn't fall over. I wrap a paint strainer/hop bag around it and syphon my wort through this.

I like the idea of wrapping a hop or grain bag around the strainer. I have a big stainless strainer but it isn't fine enough, that would help. I have a kettle with a valve, which I got so I didn't have to lift a full kettle, so I'm looking at other ways of filtering in the kettle. But when screens get clogged....I do exactly what you say, or I put the strainer in place and use a spoon to scrape the surface of the screen so it opens it up and drains. I have to keep doing it, it's a pain.
 
Of course I sanitize everything with Oxyclean first.
FYI...Oxyclean isn't a sanitizer.

For the OP, I feel your pain. Every solution seems to have a trade-off. I have moved to hop bags for the bittering hops...keep it to 1oz or less per bag, and utilization isn't compromised much (maybe 10% at most). I account for this by sticking with high alpha hops for bittering.

I then use the hop spider for late additions. I weigh the bag down with marbles to minimize floating, seems to work fairly well. I just take care to ensure the bag doesn't reach the bottom of the pot.

I'd like to hear other suggestions...this seems to work best for me to avoid getting hop junk into the fermentor.
 
I've been considering using an outlet ring manifold similar to the one I use in my mash tun. Right now it's just a ring manifold with slits cut in it and if you have a threaded kettle valve you can easily attach something similar to your kettle. The real test will be if the whirlpool is strong enough to keep the hot break and pellet hops from getting to inlet slits (which should face down). Right now I use a dip tube for pellet hops, but this option would surely clog up in no time flat with leaf hops. I suppose that unlike the mash tun, where you're aiming for uniform flow to ensure efficiency, in the kettle we're just looking to separate, so we could move the ring manifold towards the wall more (someone correct me if this is wrong). But yes, one setup that good for duel use would be excellent.

I'm not sure if the strainer would work for the OP's setup. With a CFC, you need to drain from the kettle to get into the chiller. This differs from the immersion chiller, where you can chill first then separate.

Any thoughts?
 
I have a blichmann kettle and hop blocker, but even with it you have to use the following method (per blichmann instructions). Boil, add hops as usual, directly into the boil. Once the boil is complete, whirlpool the hell out of your wort and let it set for around 30 minutes. This will give you a nice cone of hop and break material, then open the ball valve and transfer wort. I have yet to clog my plate chiller, or anything else for that matter. Plus my wort comes out crystal clear after that resting period.
 
Huh. So no cooling, just whirlpool and let it sit for 30 minutes? I wonder if others have successfully used the hopblocker in a non-blichmann kettle. I searched for that, but didn't find much.
 
I have a blichmann kettle and hop blocker, but even with it you have to use the following method (per blichmann instructions). Boil, add hops as usual, directly into the boil. Once the boil is complete, whirlpool the hell out of your wort and let it set for around 30 minutes. This will give you a nice cone of hop and break material, then open the ball valve and transfer wort. I have yet to clog my plate chiller, or anything else for that matter. Plus my wort comes out crystal clear after that resting period.

30 minutes of extra exposure to the hop material?

Wouldn't that increase bittering since you're not cooling, you're just swirling, and it is quite high in temperature?
 
Wonder how making a ring type manifold that went around the inner edge of the kettle, then whirlpooling while you drained it would work.
 
Wonder how making a ring type manifold that went around the inner edge of the kettle, then whirlpooling while you drained it would work.

I like this thought. But here's the thing (remember I am not an experienced pump user): when I start the pump up in order to whirlpool, it is pulling wort from the kettle. Very quickly, before the whirlpool gets started, the screen clogs (with pellets). It is a mystery to me how anyone mechanically whirlpools with mixed hops in an open boil. I guess I could use a spoon only to whirlpool, then let it sit, but how are all these other folks doing it?

I am beginning to wonder if it is just not advisable to mix hops.
 
I like this thought. But here's the thing (remember I am not an experienced pump user): when I start the pump up in order to whirlpool, it is pulling wort from the kettle. Very quickly, before the whirlpool gets started, the screen clogs (with pellets). It is a mystery to me how anyone mechanically whirlpools with mixed hops in an open boil. I guess I could use a spoon only to whirlpool, then let it sit, but how are all these other folks doing it?

I am beginning to wonder if it is just not advisable to mix hops.

You can use a drill and a paint stirring attachment from Home Depot to do this. Of course you need to clean and sanitize it, just like anything else at this point, but I've had good results using this method.
 
30 minutes of extra exposure to the hop material?

Wouldn't that increase bittering since you're not cooling, you're just swirling, and it is quite high in temperature?

Instead of adding your 5 min and 10 min hops, just add them at flame out. That's what "whirlpool" hop additions is considered. More aroma, less bitterness.

Plus, correct me if I'm wrong but you need to boil hops to get the bitterness out of them, this is more of a steep at high temps.
 
I use a 5 gallon paint strainer bag inside my bottling bucket. I pour my wort into the bottling bucket, pull out the paint strainer bag and aerate from my bottling bucket into my fermenting bucket. It works great for both whole and pellet hops.
 
dfc said:
I use a 5 gallon paint strainer bag inside my bottling bucket. I pour my wort into the bottling bucket, pull out the paint strainer bag and aerate from my bottling bucket into my fermenting bucket. It works great for both whole and pellet hops.

I do the same. Since I started straining I get much less trub and clearer beer. I love it!
 
dbrewski said:
I like this thought. But here's the thing (remember I am not an experienced pump user): when I start the pump up in order to whirlpool, it is pulling wort from the kettle. Very quickly, before the whirlpool gets started, the screen clogs (with pellets). It is a mystery to me how anyone mechanically whirlpools with mixed hops in an open boil. I guess I could use a spoon only to whirlpool, then let it sit, but how are all these other folks doing it?

I am beginning to wonder if it is just not advisable to mix hops.

Or just put a bag on the output of the pump. Whirlpool until cool, then place output in a sanitized bag.

I don't like hop spiders during the boil, last time I used one for an IPA, after cooling and removing the bag, the compacted hop sludge was sitting at 125°f. So I threw it out. I've been meaning to try the idea I mentioned above but its slightly difficult for me because my whirlpool output is permanently attached yo my keggle.
 
the plate chiller is a SOB w/ this. I am seeking the same fix as the OP and the majority of the posters. problem for me with most of these noted methods is the use of a plate chiller needs to have all that gunk removed prior to sending through said plate chiller. I just use muslin grain sacks with 5 oz max in it. Still losing utilization, though...

where's the ultra fix for this issue?? I know it's out there:)
 
I was thinking that you would start the whirlpool with a spoon/paddle and then start draining or pumping once the sludge started to move to the center.
 
i use the paint bags, as the hop bags seem to clog right up with resin, and like you said - retain to much wort. i think the key is to change them pretty regular- maybe not worry so much about what kind of hop trub you have in the primary and either use extract or dry hop. i have one of those randall set ups i made from a water filter, but i'm not a huge hop guy- i prefer the noble, more subtle ones, but i will say that the randall acts as a nice filtration device for any cloudy beers.
 
dfc said:
I use a 5 gallon paint strainer bag inside my bottling bucket. I pour my wort into the bottling bucket, pull out the paint strainer bag and aerate from my bottling bucket into my fermenting bucket. It works great for both whole and pellet hops.

Yep me too. Works pretty good except I usually have to squeeze out the wort with my hands. I just make sure my hands are sanitized or wear disposible gloves.
 
spokaniac said:
I was thinking that you would start the whirlpool with a spoon/paddle and then start draining or pumping once the sludge started to move to the center.

Thanks for the input. I will try this next brew session. Makes sense, at least when mixed hops are used. It is hard to imagine these guys with $$$ tied up in super bling brew rigs whip out a $3.99 spoon to whirlpool but it's worth trying.
 
Take a look at my homemade hop stopper. The large surface area really holds a ton of hops. I start with gravity which is fine, because it matches the flow I need with my CFC. Once it slows, I turn the pump on. Works great. At the end you have to slow to a trickle. I watch the hose and when I see the wort dripping through it, I slow the output of the pump.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/hop-quesadilla-305073/
 
What about a false bottom in the kettle? I am in the same situation. I have a plate chiller and need to keep hop gunk out of the chiller. So at the present time I use bags but I'd like a better way, I have been thinking of some kind of hop back but that will likely just clog too.
 
smokinghole said:
What about a false bottom in the kettle? I am in the same situation. I have a plate chiller and need to keep hop gunk out of the chiller. So at the present time I use bags but I'd like a better way, I have been thinking of some kind of hop back but that will likely just clog too.

A FB is probably not fine enough for a plate chiller with pellet hops
 
I have just used a SS scrubbie over my diptube for the past year or two and have not had a problem with pellets or leaf hops clogging. I do not use a pump though. I'll hopefully be using a pump on National Homebrew day on teh 5th for the first time.
 
Thanks for the input. I will try this next brew session. Makes sense, at least when mixed hops are used. It is hard to imagine these guys with $$$ tied up in super bling brew rigs whip out a $3.99 spoon to whirlpool but it's worth trying.

I'm not one of those guys, I am one of those guys trying to go as cheap as possible. Was thinking of something along those lines as I'd be able to put it together for a couple bucks in fittings and pipe I've already got.
 
Take a look at my homemade hop stopper. The large surface area really holds a ton of hops. I start with gravity which is fine, because it matches the flow I need with my CFC. Once it slows, I turn the pump on. Works great. At the end you have to slow to a trickle. I watch the hose and when I see the wort dripping through it, I slow the output of the pump.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/hop-quesadilla-305073/

Yeah, I used 30x30 mesh on mine, I didn't want to sew anything so I made it a different shape w/rivets. But that is a nice build. in the comments someone says it works great if you run the pump slow. I think that is my problem. in attempting to create a whirlpool, I am trying to run the pump too high. I think I need to whirlpool manually as spokaniac suggested. Then maybe I can just use a stainless scrubby on a short side pickup tube (which by the way also clogs when you don't whirlpool and use a pump too fast).

I'll keep working at it and post any progress.
 
I have just used a SS scrubbie over my diptube for the past year or two and have not had a problem with pellets or leaf hops clogging. I do not use a pump though. I'll hopefully be using a pump on National Homebrew day on teh 5th for the first time.

I'm in basically the same boat. I've used paint strainer bags, muslin bags, etc etc, but for the last 5 or so brews I've just used a stainless scrubby wedged under my diptube. It's worked great. I also have not used a pump with it, but I would imagine it should work fine for a single transfer to the fermenter. My biggest concern is that I want to use that pump for a whirlpool to recirculate/agitate the wort while my IC is chilling, then it may get clogged up with the continued flow.
 
dbrewski said:
Yeah, I used 30x30 mesh on mine, I didn't want to sew anything so I made it a different shape w/rivets. But that is a nice build. in the comments someone says it works great if you run the pump slow. I think that is my problem. in attempting to create a whirlpool, I am trying to run the pump too high. I think I need to whirlpool manually as spokaniac suggested. Then maybe I can just use a stainless scrubby on a short side pickup tube (which by the way also clogs when you don't whirlpool and use a pump too fast).

I'll keep working at it and post any progress.

I run the pump at full blast for whirlpooling. Works good. Only have to slow the pump when you start to expose the stopper.
 
I run the pump at full blast for whirlpooling. Works good. Only have to slow the pump when you start to expose the stopper.

OK, is this with mixed pellet and whole hops? Starting right after flameout? I cannot do that, it runs for about 7-10 seconds then slows to a crawl as pellet hops are sucked into a clingy mossy mess on the surface. Maybe it is a surface area thing, yours has a larger area. I am not using crazy amounts of hops here either, maybe 4 oz total.
 
dbrewski said:
OK, is this with mixed pellet and whole hops? Starting right after flameout? I cannot do that, it runs for about 7-10 seconds then slows to a crawl as pellet hops are sucked into a clingy mossy mess on the surface. Maybe it is a surface area thing, yours has a larger area. I am not using crazy amounts of hops here either, maybe 4 oz total.

Did 9 oz of pellets last weekend, ran it 5 minutes while boiling and a few after. It did stop after that. With 6 ozs it ran for 15 no problem. I think surface area has a lot to do with it.
 
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