US reported Osama has been killed

Yakima 728
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GilaMinumBeer said:
Dumped overboard as fish food is most appropriate for him. No "in the name of Allah" or "Salaam". Just there one minute, gone the next. And would likely the ONLY thing done with him that could be construed as benificial.
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i like this.

eat it *****. you will be remembered untill these fish **** you out. the ones who will be remembered forever are those who lost their lives in the attacks or while fighting for our freedom.
+1 for the home team
 
GilaMinumBeer said:
I think he deserves as much US respect in death as he deserved in life. And I am a Muslim. His 100 years of hell is his reward for his life and he's earned every one of them.

And yes, my fear is that this will only feed a more enthusiastic call to action from remaining Al-queada extremists with a new found "cause" to "honor" Osama. reports say that there is still a very active cell in Yemen that has not been getting their directives from Osama. So then, who?

Could be, and will continue to be, anyone with a grudge against the American freedom, the American Governement, or a daughter/son who immigrated to and married outside of religion. Or worse, and most likely, any ignorant (in the context of out of touch with worldly things) Muslim who hears only of Americans killing Muslims and no other context to indicate causation. "They" are everywhere.
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Aren't you sort of in the wrong forums? Muslims cannot consume alcohol.
 
bernerbrau said:
I just believe he's gone. There's no satisfaction there, no sense that any wrong has been put right (and really, how can the death of one man ever adequately pay for so many countless lives?), just a somber relief that one more evil man cannot hurt any more innocent people.
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What is important here is that he, openely, and repititiously, claimed that his actions were made "in the name of Allah" and for the "Good of Islam". And most notably that he shrouded himself under a loose interpretation of "Jihadism" as if he were protecting Islam.

Athiest or not, I propose that you should take satisfaction in that "He" believes he will be faced with Allah and made to account for his actions.

And while the Quran makes it very clear that "Allah is most merciful, most forgiving" you must also understand that Allahs "mercy" and "forgiveness" has many shapes, many forms. In a religious context, it could be viewed that allah has shown mercy to Osama in the form of a bullet to the brain rather than a slow, animalistic, torturous death. In the context that Allah has shown Osama forgiveness by expediting his sentence in the hereafter that he (Osama) claims to bestow his faith. And we, athiest and Muslim alike, can only hope that as Osama lived by the fire here (guns, bombs, etc...) that he will live by the fire (hellfire) in the hereafter as well.
 
GilaMinumBeer said:
Nor can Christians by way of Corinthians, Galatians, Proverbs, Isaiah, and Hosea. Yet many still choose to in moderation.

So what is your point?
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Not that i wish to get into a debate like this and thread-jack. But i've never heard that Christians are not supposed to consume alcohol. In fact, Jesus himself created and consumed wine.
 
Zixxer10R said:
Not that i wish to get into a debate like this and thread-jack. But i've never heard that Christians are not supposed to consume alcohol. In fact, Jesus himself created and consumed wine.
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Ever been to the South? Lots of denominations down here ban alcohol consumption. But that's beside the point. There are 1.6 billion Muslims. Wouldn't one expect some variation in how they choose to observe their faith in the real world?

rycov said:
so he was a home brewer? sweet
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Yup. Mad skills too. Primary to bottle, instantly.
 
yeah. the bible is filled with crazy stuff. if you read some of the old testament it says you have to (like its your duty) to stone gays and kill whores. and it gets specific about how you should kill some body if they sleep with they're relatives. so i'm totally not gonna do that. guess i'm just a sinner
 
Zixxer10R said:
Not that i wish to get into a debate like this and thread-jack. But i've never heard that Christians are not supposed to consume alcohol. In fact, Jesus himself created and consumed wine.
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Yes. Jesus did make wine from water. But you forget the context fo the time too. Water alone was unfit to drink. Table wines were not considered to be alcoholic in the same context that Strong drinks were. But todays society see it all as alcoholic.

So then, what non-alcoholic beverages do you suppose the Islamic pilgrims consumed along their Camel back caravans to and fro?

Date juice? In that heat, kept in autoclaved bladders? Do you see my point?

There is a clear distinction in every religious text that condemns drunkeness but no clear indication of what people actually drank on a daily basis.
 
GilaMinumBeer said:
Yes. Jesus did make wine from water. But you forget the context fo the time too. Water alone was unfit to drink. Table wines were not considered to be alcoholic in the same context that Strong drinks were. But todays society see it all as alcoholic.

So then, what non-alcoholic beverages do you suppose the Islamic pilgrims consumed along their Camel back caravans to and fro?

Date juice? In that heat, kept in autoclaved bladders? Do you see my point?

There is a clear distinction in every religious text that condemns drunkeness but no clear indication of what people actually drank on a daily basis.
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Well put.
 
GilaMinumBeer said:
Yes. Jesus did make wine from water. But you forget the context fo the time too. Water alone was unfit to drink. Table wines were not considered to be alcoholic in the same context that Strong drinks were.
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Oh dude... This is just some straight up BS that American teetotalers of the 18th and 19th century invented to discourage Christians from getting drunk.

The fact is people have been imbibing since antiquity. First-century Jews were no exception. You put grapes in an open container, and eventually they just naturally make it to 20%. There's no reason to suspect they cut it with water, which, as you already noted, was undrinkable.

EDIT: my bad, I re-read what you wrote and realized that's not what you were saying. You were saying that culturally, wine wasn't considered "booze". I have to wonder what was considered "strong drink", though, because distillation didn't come around for another 200 years.
 
bernerbrau said:
The fact is people have been imbibing since antiquity. First-century Jews were no exception. You put grapes in an open container, and eventually they just naturally make it to 20%. There's no reason to suspect they cut it with water, which, as you already noted, was undrinkable.
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Exactly my point. But now, take that concept to the deserts of the Middle East, or to Israel. Not too much water to cut with even if you could.

And fast forward to today. Science in chemistry has learned that many a compound insoluable in water can be added to alcohol and Whalah! What was once a powder in water is now a solution in alcohol.

If the strictest prohibition of everything alcoholic were to be maintained then many a sniffling Muslim would have fallen to their death by the simplest of cold or flu. Yes, a stretch but a point nonetheless how rediculous the stance on alcohol is percieved both within Islamic circles and from the outside. When the true context is that overindulgence is what is to be avoided. And that has been proven to apply to anything.

Now, I suggest we get off of this detour and back to the Original Topic of what it is Osama has earned for himself? There is always a way to generate topics in more appropriate rooms for debate.

By the way, which is more appropriate, to rememeber the name of the evil and the impact it has inflicted on a society (thus by some twisted manner bestowing an honor of rememberance)? Or to forget completely the source, the implement, of said wrongs and only honor the names of those lost in service through a non descript period of time?

On this, I am torn. By declaring a name for what Osama has done (War of "blank", etc...) it gives those who revere his acts something to pride themselves on because it survives through history. But, in the same respect by not "memorializing" the period could also be construed by the suyrvivors of the lost as dishonorable to those lost, or disrespectable. Is it possible to memorialize this period in time in such a way that honors those lost in the fight without even a smidgeon of a mention of Osama to avoid any potential "claim to fame" for successive Al-Queada factions to feed pride from?
 
GilaMinumBeer said:
Exactly my point. But now, take that concept to the deserts of the Middle East, or to Israel. Not too much water to cut with even if you could.
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Right, I misread your statement originally. See my edit :p

GilaMinumBeer said:
And fast forward to today. Science in chemistry has learned that many a compound insoluable in water can be added to alcohol and Whalah! What was once a powder in water is now a solution in alcohol.
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Well that's more of an Industrial Revolution discovery, so more 1700s/1800s than today, but I get your point. Certain medicines are just delivered more effectively in an alcoholic solution.

GilaMinumBeer said:
When the true context is that overindulgence is what is to be avoided. And that has been proven to apply to anything.
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You also basically said that wine wasn't considered "booze" back then. I have not heard this before. What would have been stronger than wine though? You have to distill to get stronger and they didn't start distilling until 200 AD.

Incidentally I just found out from Wikipedia that ancient Arabs were one of the first cultures to distill alcohol. I gotta wonder what went wrong between then and now!
 
bernerbrau said:
You also basically said that wine wasn't considered "booze" back then. I have not heard this before. What would have been stronger than wine though? You have to distill to get stronger and they didn't start distilling until 200 AD.
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No. I propose that society at large was not educated enough to discern between table drinks and "Booze". Or at least the time period, and understanding of when/how it occured. Only that they could drink what was needed and did not succumb to the drunken illness. This is another one of those things that is elusive in religious texts. How did they come to discern the difference between table drinks and these "Strong Drinks" and by what indication did they learn to avoid the latter.

bernerbrau said:
Incidentally I just found out from Wikipedia that ancient Arabs were one of the first cultures to distill alcohol. I gotta wonder what went wrong between then and now!
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That fool Kalil. Fvcker washed from the cistern water and pee'd in the baptismal. Turns out he'd just came from Alibaba's where he'd bought the house date juice without noticing it was 6 months past it's born on date.

So the congregation took an idea and organized it.

Later, soon as they brought him home to his wife, she beat the crap outta him with her sandals cause it was that or strangle his ass with her sarong but she sure as heck wasn't gonna strip down in front of his worthless friends.

So, the congreagation took an idea, and organized a punishment from it.

But, that high falootin' queen up the street wouldn't dare risk damaging her newest Prince Falood strapless on a drunken husband so, she grabbed the nearest thing she could throw.

So, a congregation took an idea, and drunkeness was met with stones.




I could be wrong tho'.
 
GilaMinumBeer said:
That fool Kalil. Fvcker washed from the cistern water and pee'd in the baptismal. Turns out he'd just came from Alibaba's where he'd bought the house date juice without noticing it was 6 months past it's born on date. So the congregation took an idea and organized it.
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Just takes one to ruin it for everybody, I guess.
 
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I loved this part from an NPR interview with Lawrence Wright yesterday:

(retrieved from http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=135917389)

GROSS: How did the reality of his demise compare with some of the scenarios you'd imagined?

Mr. WRIGHT: Actually, Terry, I think it was in 2006, the CIA came to me to write a scenario, in their words, about what would we do if we got bin Laden because this has been a subject of concern within the intelligence community.

What if we did get him? How would we treat him? Where would we take him? Would it be better to take him alive or dead? And because I had written this movie, "The Siege," you know, and Hollywood had done a somewhat better job of connecting the dots about terrorism and the threat to America than the intelligence community.

The CIA was reaching out to screenwriters, such as I had done, and I said: Well, you know, I'm a reporter. I can't go writing screenplays for the CIA. But I'll tell you in the form of an op-ed for the New York Times what I think if we were able to catch bin Laden.

First of all, remember that bin Laden is the most famous man in the world. He's going to be one of the most famous men in history. So if you have the good luck to catch him, you have to deal with the legacy, not just the man.

And if you catch him, don't kill him because he'll become a martyr, which is what he seeks to be. But don't take him to America just yet.

First of all, take him to Kenya, where on August 6, 1998, he set off a bomb in front of an American embassy, killing 224 people and wounding, blinding 150 Africans. Let him sit in a courtroom in Nairobi and tell 150 blind Africans that he was just striking at a symbol of American power.

And then you can take him to Tanzania, where on the same day, he set off another bomb in front of another American embassy, killing 11 people, all of them Muslims. And bin Laden excused that because it was Friday, and good Muslims would be in the mosque.

I think that would be a wonderful venue to talk about what a good Muslim actually is. And then you could bring him to America and have him answer for the death of the 17 sailors on the USS Cole in October, 2000, and the 3,000 Americans who died on 9/11.

But you don't have to stop there. You can take him so many places. You know, Casablanca, Madrid, London, Bali. But just take him one last place. Take him home and try him under Sharia law, which is the only law that he and his followers would respect.

And if he's convicted, he would be taken to a square in downtown Riyadh, and the executioner is a big man with a long sword, and it's Saudi custom for the executioner to go out and ask the crowd, which is composed of the victims of the condemned man, to forgive him.

And if they couldn't do that, then the executioner would do his job, and bin Laden would be taken and buried in an unmarked Wahhabi graveyard. And I thought in that manner, you could begin to roll back some of his awful legacy.
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unbeknownst to the free world, the team that took out Osama was comprised exclusively of female special forces operatives from Thailand. You won't see this on CNN. I have connections.

I give you....Seal Team Six...

sealteam6.jpg
 
Actually, I don't think alcohol was Osama's vice...

Osama bin Tokin'

AFA the burial, there is a good reason to treat him the way they did.

My understanding is that there are two types of burial in the Muslim faith - one for "regular" deaths, and one for martyrs. There are specific ways that a martyr's body is to be handled in order for him to be considered a martyr. As I understand it, since Osama was given a common "funeral," he cannot strictly be considered a martyr. Now, many will still consider him a martyr, but if what I heard is correct he cannot be officially declared a martyr by a cleric or order.
 

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