SG going the wrong way

I'm sure this has been addressed but I must be searching for the wrong keywords.
I made a 6 gal batch of strawberry wine last Wednesday.
Here's the ingredients:
17.5 lbs fresh hood strawberries
12.5 lbs table sugar
5 gals water
5 tsp acid blend
5 tsp pectin enzyme
1.25 tsp grape tannin
Yeast: CR51 with nutrient

The OG was 1.070 (which I thought was low). I've stirred it every day for 5 days now and took another gravity reading this morning and it's at 1.084 now.
This is my first fresh fruit wine so I'm still a rookie and gaining experience. Here's my thinking of why the SG is going the opposite direction from what I expected. The sugars in the berries are dissolving into the wine. Is this correct?
I put the berries in a giant nylon bag and mashed the hell outta them with a potato masher, and I also made sure the 12.5 lbs of sugar were fully dissolved.***(EDIT: We now know that this was untrue, I did not fully dissolve the sugar)
I have noticed the berry must in the bag getting lighter and reduced in volume every day when I stir it.

Any feed back from the experienced ones? I'm not really worried about the wine but now I'm not sure about calculating ABV when it's done.

The only thing I can think of is that it wasn't mixed up properly when you took your original reading of 1.070 (even though you said it was), and all of the sugars weren't dissolved. Since you've been stirring since then, they'd likely be dissolved now. You didn't take either of these readings at any sort of extreme temperature, did you? Both relatively the same temperature?

The strawberries wouldn't account for that kind of a difference. I would imagine that there would actually be a slight lowering of the gravity with strawberries, since the berries aren't putting in just sugar, but juice. I haven't checked but I wouldn't imagine the juice would have a gravity lower than 1.070. The net loss of gravity would be practically negligible, though.

Maybe the pectic enzyme is still breaking down everything?

Temperature was at about 70F both times.
If what you say about the amount of juice vs. sugar that the berries add then you must be right about the table sugar not being fully dissolved. If this is the case then I'm still ok aren't I?
The recipe said to add the mashed up berries (in the nylon bag) to the primary bucket, then add the sugar, then add the boiling water to it all and mix it up. On hindsight, I should've dissolved the sugar in the boiling water THEN added it all to the berry mash correct?
Damn school of hard knocks.

Thank you for the feedback!!

I always try to dissolve the sugar in hot water before putting it in the fermenter. I always use less to do that so I can make sure I can add enough cold water to hit pitching time quicker.

you turned wine into water???

JasontheBeaver said:

Temperature was at about 70F both times.
If what you say about the amount of juice vs. sugar that the berries add then you must be right about the table sugar not being fully dissolved. If this is the case then I'm still ok aren't I?
The recipe said to add the mashed up berries (in the nylon bag) to the primary bucket, then add the sugar, then add the boiling water to it all and mix it up. On hindsight, I should've dissolved the sugar in the boiling water THEN added it all to the berry mash correct?
Damn school of hard knocks.

Thank you for the feedback!!

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Dissolving it first probably would have been a good idea. It's certainly still fine, though. If it's fermenting then no worries!

I think the same as "BryanThompson" .

This is the mistake many beginners do :

"Neglecting the function of Pectic Enzyme"

How long did you wait after adding the Enzyme to measure the gravity ?

Hector

With that amount of sugar you should have an OG around 1.096
The berries should make it a bit more (6 gal is total with berries right?)

hector said:

I think the same as "BryanThompson" .

This is the mistake many beginners do :

"Neglecting the function of Pectic Enzyme"

How long did you wait after adding the Enzyme to measure the gravity ?

Hector

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I measured the OG immediately after adding the enzyme.

So while we're on the topic maybe you could help me understand what exactly the pectin enzyme does? The guy at the LHBS had no idea either.
Thanks in advance!

JasontheBeaver said:

I measured the OG immediately after adding the enzyme.

So while we're on the topic maybe you could help me understand what exactly the pectin enzyme does? The guy at the LHBS had no idea either.
Thanks in advance!

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The pectic enzyme only breaks down pectin, the substance that causes fruit jellies to thicken. It doesn't do anything magical for the OG.

My guess is that your first OG reading is just wrong- I always dissolve the sugar in boiling water before adding to my primary. Your sugar wasn't dissolved, so the OG reading is faulty. No big deal. Keep stirring, and pushing the cap down that forms, and it'll be fine.

I had the same problem... it turns out that I took the SG sample at the end of a racking and got one thing but then checked it in the new carboy and it was higher. Most logical thing is that since I was syphoning off the bottom to do my racking, the denser liquid was drawn the bottom off leaving a less dense sample that was not representative of the whole.

Also.. Pectin is a protein found in fruits and is very water soluble so it doesn't settle out easily and leaves the wine hazy. Pectic enzyme changes the structure of the pectic protein making it less water soluble and therefore causing it to settle out and clearing up your wine. This should not contribute significantly to any changes in SG.

I have made a six gallon batch of strawberry wine. I've also ruined some strawberry wine. Currently I'm working on about 18 gallons of strawberry wine. A few words of advice. I'm one of those guys who likes a high alcohol content in my wine. This drive is part of what ruined a batch of strawberry wine. I added 3 TBS of wine tannin which was 3 times more than I added in my successful batch of wine. Also I added about 16 lbs of sugar to my must when I tried to start the fermentation. This had an adverse effect of the yeast. I pitched the yeast a few times, but with no success. I learned that to start a fermentation, your s.g. needs to be in a certain range and too much wine tannin will kill your yeast.

brazedowl said:

.
Also.. Pectin is a protein found in fruits and is very water soluble so it doesn't settle out easily and leaves the wine hazy.

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it's not a protein, it's a polysaccharide, quite a different beast altogether, being composed of simple sugars (with various modifications and substitutions) linked in various conformations, forming a matrix, normally found in plant cell walls. in your juice this matrix can hold other 'stuff' including fibrous cell wall pieces which are less soluable in water, resulting in the pectic haze.
anything that is 'very soluble' will not give a cloudy appearance when dissolved, only non-soluble stuff in suspension will
proteins are made of linked amino acids rather than sugars.

JasontheBeaver said:

I measured the OG immediately after adding the enzyme.

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As I said , that is the big mistake some Winemakers do .

You should always give the Enzyme enough time to do its Job .

It's a Protein that needs usually 10-12 Hours to break down most of the Cells to convert all the lees to Juice .

Besides , it will free some more Sugars and Acids as well and this is exactly neglected by some Winemakers and

they end up with a Wine which has more Alcohol% than they expected .

Therefore , it's recommended NOT to add all the Sugar first and you'd better wait for 10-12 Hours after

adding the Enzyme and then measure the gravity and acidity and do the adjusting , if needed .

Hector

Yooper said:

The pectic enzyme only breaks down pectin, the substance that causes fruit jellies to thicken. It doesn't do anything magical for the OG.

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I wonder as you call yourself an experienced Winemaker and you underestimate the function of the Pectic Enzyme so easily !!!

I know a dutch winemaker who has done some excellent experiments called "Pulpfermenting" with the Enzyme to show how it causes

the S.G. and acidity of the Must to rise by the time of adjusting the Must .

The Experiment and the Results are fully covered in his Weblog :

http://wijnmaker.blogspot.com/2011_04_01_archive.html

Hector

hector said:

I wonder as you call yourself an experienced Wine maker and you underestimate the function of the Pectic Enzyme so easily !!!

I know a dutch wine maker who has done some excellent experiments called "Pulpfermenting" with the Enzyme to show how it causes

the S.G. and acidity of the Must to rise by the time of adjusting the Must .

The Experiment and the Results are fully covered in his Weblog :

http://wijnmaker.blogspot.com/2011_04_01_archive.html

Hector

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I would suggest that the reason his SG went up (by only a couple of points, incidentally) is because the pulp wasn't properly macerated to begin with. And he's not talking about a HUGE difference at all- in fact after the must has been mixed (after one day) there is most often no increase at all. I do use pectic enzyme, especially for fibrous fruits, but I think the reason the OG in this thread changed so drastically is because the sugar wasn't dissolved.

Typically, a winemaker will mix up the must and add pectic enzyme 12 hours later. The next day, the measurements are taken (OG, pH if doing, etc) and then the yeast is pitched. By then, the OG will be very very close to the actual OG.

Yooper said:

I would suggest that the reason his SG went up (by only a couple of points, incidentally) is because the pulp wasn't properly macerated to begin with.

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The Experiments are done in 7 Parts with different fruits and he has controlled everything such as maceration very well .

My Winemaking techniques has improved well since I followed his Weblog .

Hector

Wow thanks for all this information guys! It's too bad I get it AFTER my first fruit wine but I think this batch will still be drinkable.
I couldn't find a great, step-by-step strawberry wine recipe so I just googled it and found this one: http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/reques5.asp I used recipe #4.

JasontheBeaver said:

Wow thanks for all this information guys! It's too bad I get it AFTER my first fruit wine but I think this batch will still be drinkable.
I couldn't find a great, step-by-step strawberry wine recipe so I just googled it and found this one: http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/reques5.asp I used recipe #4.

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It shows that you have not read enough about wine making first .

Try to improve your basic knowledge about Wine .

Jack Keller's Homepage is a useful Source for beginners .

As you see , in the Recipe you chose it's also mentioned to wait 12 Hours after adding the Pectic Enzyme .

Hector

hector said:

As you see , in the Recipe you chose it's also mentioned to wait 12 Hours after adding the Pectic Enzyme .

Hector

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Hector thank you, you are absolutely correct! The good news is, now that I review my notes I indeed did wait 12 hours after adding the pectin enzyme so at least I'm able to somewhat follow directions.

I have a pretty good strawberry wine recipe, that makes 6 gallons.

Brewerone said:

I have a pretty good strawberry wine recipe, that makes 6 gallons.

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Care to share it? Berry season is almost wrapped up here but I could use another batch in my primary.

How To Make Strawberry Wine
By Damian Perrin

Makes a 6 gallon Batch

Ingredients

15 lbs Strawberries
7.8 gallon Fermenting Pale
6.5-gallon Carboy
Airlock
1 TBS Wine Tannin
7 TBS Acid Blend
¼ TBS Pectic Enzyme
6 Camden Tablets (Potassium Metabisulphite)
10 lbs. Cane Sugar ( 20 cups)
1 Yeast Packet
6 TSP Yeast Nutrient
1 TSP Gelatin Finings
2 1/2 TSP Bentonite
Bucket Bag (Fine or Coarse)

Day 1

Secure bucket bag inside Fermenting pale (Primary Fermentation) and strap down with bungee cord. Then add strawberries, wine tannin, acid blend, pectic enzyme, bentonite, and Camden tablets. Next add enough water to cover strawberries. Cover pale with towel.

Day 2

Add sugar, yeast packet, and yeast nutrient. Then add water to the 5-gallon mark. If you have a wine acid test kit (recommended), test the acid in the wine. You should be looking for a range between .60 - .65%. Test the Specific Gravity. You should be looking for a range between 1.075 – 1.100 Specific Gravity), which can produce between 10.2% - 13.5% alcohol. Do not raise the Specific Gravity level too high as this will have an adverse effect on your yeast. You may add sugar to your must after about 2 days once the fermentation process has started. Days 2 through 8 stir daily for 1 minute. Test S.G. after 3 day and again each day until the Specific Gravity reaches 1.000. Then follow day 8 instructions.

Day 8

Remove strawberries from wine and discard. Rack (siphon) wine into 6.5-gallon carboy (Secondary Fermentation). Add Gelatin Finings. Fit with airlock.

After 30 days, degas the wine. Rack wine. Wine should clear. You may drink after two months, but it matures after 6 months.

Question! Can you add the acid blend and/or tannin at the time of bottling?

I wouldn’t recommend adding acid blend or wine tannin that late. Wine ages better in bulk. It would difficult to know how much acid blend you would be putting in at that time. If you want to add any or both, I would do it while it was still in the carboy. It would be easier to test you acid level and see how much darker your wine will be by add small amounts of wine tannin.

Jason, which LHBS do you use?

fendermallot said:

Jason, which LHBS do you use?

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What is LHBS?

fendermallot said:

Jason, which LHBS do you use?

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I go to Brew Brothers and Main St Supply mainly (both stores are in Hillsboro). But I have visited that shop in Tigard too (name escapes me).

My neighbors and I visit Brew Brothers often. I haven't been to Main st. for supplies yet (i've visited the store though). They were a bit more expensive. But dammit, Brew Brothers can't get Nottingham yeast in to save their lives!

Brewerone said:

What is LHBS?

Click to expand...

Local HomeBrew Store/Supply

Brewerone said:

How To Make Strawberry Wine
By Damian Perrin

Makes a 6 gallon Batch

...

Click to expand...

There is a negative and also a positive point in this Recipe that I'd like to mention :

By Day 1 --> NEVER add Pectic Enzyme and Campden tablets together to the Must at the same time , since the function

of the Enzyme is retarded by presence of SO2 .

The Enzyme should be added 12 Hours after adding Campden tablets .

The positive one is that it's mentioned NOT to add all the sugar first and it says that you should check the gravity and

then you can add rest of the sugar on Day 2 , if it's needed .

Hector

dinnerstick said:

you turned wine into water???

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love this comment!

hector said:

There is a negative and also a positive point in this Recipe that I'd like to mention :

By Day 1 --> NEVER add Pectic Enzyme and Campden tablets together to the Must at the same time , since the function

of the Enzyme is retarded by presence of SO2 .

The Enzyme should be added 12 Hours after adding Campden tablets .

The positive one is that it's mentioned NOT to add all the sugar first and it says that you should check the gravity and

then you can add rest of the sugar on Day 2 , if it's needed .

Hector

Click to expand...

I have two questions. I do a lot of fruit wines. How much pectic enzyme should I typically use per gallon. What is the importance of SO2? I don't have anything that will measure for that. I just ignore it all together. Is this a bad thing? Can pectic enzyme be added at the same time as the yeast. Since pectic enzyme helps break down the pectin in fruit, is it useless to add pectic enzyme to a must after the fruit has been removed. I ask because I may not have put enough in initially.