There's Some Bad Info Going Around

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discnjh said:
And i've heard that argument made (by Jamil, at least, i feel like i may have heard some of the pro brewers interviewed on the BN mention it as well) that you actually get BETTER results from your yeast on the 3rd or 4th pitch than you do on the first, because by then you have a yeast population that is tuned to operate in optimal beer making mode.
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I can understand that if you're operating a commercial brewery that makes exactly the same wort for multiple batches. The colony gets acclimated to a particlular composition of sugars. How many of us brew the same batch repeatedly?
 
william_shakes_beer said:
I can understand that if you're operating a commercial brewery that makes exactly the same wort for multiple batches. The colony gets acclimated to a particlular composition of sugars. How many of us brew the same batch repeatedly?
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Well, JZ believes it helps from a homebrewing perspective as well, you can take that for whatever its worth, perhaps as little as nothing. :p

But, even if you're not brewing the same beer over and over again, you have to remember that brewing conditions and yeast propagation conditions are different. So even if you have different beers, those conditions are probably still more similar to each other than they are to yeast propagation conditions. When propagating yeast, the yeast labs don't have any reason to let the yeast ferment all the way out, because the tail end of fermentation does nothing to help yeast numbers or yeast health (which are their only concerns). For instance, wyeast recommends when propagating to move on to the next propagation step at as early as 50% apparent attenuation. When propagating, there are no hops, which can inhibit yeast growth.
 
HaHa. I love threads like this that bring out all the usual HBT flamers. I am surprised Airborneguy hasn't made an appearance. Some people get all bent out of shape over the dumbest stuff. I guess that will happen when you mix ABV and HBT.

Wyeast website also states to pitch lagers at 68-70. Would I do it that way? Nope. I don't have an opinion on the proper way to use dry yeast, as I don't use it, but stating that because the yeast company says you don't NEED to aerate, is not enough for me to prove that it is the BEST way to do it. That's just how I feel. As stated earlier, I wouldn't even think of following kit beer instructions, so instructions in general are suspect in my mind.


Oh, and I love it when people are being brow-beat they always resort to bashing the other person for not being a financial supporter of the forum. haha.
 
MrManifesto said:
but...how? what is the advantage that dry yeast has in this regard that liquid doesn't?
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Many single cell organisms, especially ones that lack strong membranes (like yeast) have a defense mechanism where they build a layer of protein/lipid around themselves to help reduce the impact of cold/dryness (otherwise the internal water pressure would cause them to burst for instance). It should come as no surprise that it might use this structure to help propagate when more optimal conditions return. Most microbiology textbooks discuss this in some detail. You might want to start there.
 
For those of you (like me) who need videos and pictures and graphs... Bobby provides.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOrfmzpDmPk]Dry Yeast Experiment - YouTube[/ame]
 
MachineShopBrewing said:
HaHa. I love threads like this that bring out all the usual HBT information nazis.
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Honestly, look at the thread title and tell me that wasn't some serious bait.

I think the "information nazis" here have tried to add fact to anecdote. This is always a good thing; how can it not be?

I won't discuss the human/emotional side of things. You know, the first person to get emotional loses.
 
passedpawn said:
Honestly, look at the thread title and tell me that wasn't some serious bait.

I think the "information nazis" here have tried to add fact to anecdote. This is always a good thing; how can it not be?

I won't discuss the human/emotional side of things. You know, the first person to get emotional loses.
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Now you've hurt my feelings. :(

img65ec4ff15de04783a7d58cdd3a09c102.jpg
 
bolshoifish said:
Many single cell organisms, especially ones that lack strong membranes (like yeast) have a defense mechanism where they build a layer of protein/lipid around themselves to help reduce the impact of cold/dryness (otherwise the internal water pressure would cause them to burst for instance). It should come as no surprise that it might use this structure to help propagate when more optimal conditions return. Most microbiology textbooks discuss this in some detail. You might want to start there.
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Ahh ok, sounds like something I'll look into. Thanks for the response.
 
bolshoifish said:
Many single cell organisms, especially ones that lack strong membranes (like yeast) have a defense mechanism where they build a layer of protein/lipid around themselves to help reduce the impact of cold/dryness (otherwise the internal water pressure would cause them to burst for instance). It should come as no surprise that it might use this structure to help propagate when more optimal conditions return. Most microbiology textbooks discuss this in some detail. You might want to start there.
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it's trehalose that is the yeast 'anti stress'. They purposely stress the yeast to produce this in the drying process to increase viability (but then they have to deal with the trehalase enzyme, but that's another topic and I'd hate to be an 'information nazi').
 
ChillWill said:
it's trehalose that is the yeast 'anti stress'. They purposely stress the yeast to produce this in the drying process to increase viability (but then they have to deal with the trehalase enzyme, but that's another topic and I'd hate to be an 'information nazi').
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There are many mechanisms which yeast uses to survive less-than-optimal environments.

That being said, I do always keep trehalose and glycogen in mind. And so I think it's time to add more fuel to the fire...

I cold crash my starters, and decant/pitch the starter right out of the fridge, in order to take advantage of these reserves instead of letting the yeast *waste* it while warming up. That's right - when I pitch, the temperature of the yeast is just above freezing (and the temperature of the wort is just below my desired ferm temp.)

Now that you know how I pitch my yeast... who here ****ING HATES MY GUTS?
 
emjay said:
Now that you know how I pitch my yeast... who here ****ING HATES MY GUTS?
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I do!!!! No, not really. Although I'm sure you've irritated somebody. I've never done it this way, just assuming that the quick temperature change would be bad for the yeast. I might be confusing yeast with tropical fish...

It's always cool to learn about different techniques, especially if the info comes from someone with some info on why it works. If I like it enough, I'll give it a shot (I'm going to try pitching cold yeast), if not, I move on. Easy as that. Sharing the info is the key.
 
Y'all need to take this to more of a literal meaning and actually pitch your yeast. I make a challenging game out of it and try to throw curve balls and sliders, but stay away from the spit balls for fear of infection.
 
What? No response today? C'mon gang. We can't let this meaningless thread die out!! I mean, surely you all are at least aerating your yeast by shaking the packet of yeast before you pitch it!
 
I make a 5 gallon starter. Then I don't even have to brew beer. I call it no-brew pitching. It's the latest awesome-alternative-cutting-edge-unique method. You have to use pre-hopped yeast, though.
 
earlier people were talking about how the liquid yeast companies say that their yeast is ready to pitch for 5 gallon batches below 1.060. my thought on this is that they don't want to have to sell larger pouches for more money because people new to brewing wouldn't want to spend that much money as liquid yeast is expensive as is. They'd just go with the dry stuff.
 
so........what you're saying is don't make a starter and don't aerate? or is it do make a starter and don't aerate? wait maybe it's make a starter and aerate. Yeah, it's either that or don't make a starter and do aerate.

Got it, thanks for the advice! :)

^^^^JOKE^^^^

+1 for the diversity of the learning process and developing a personally efficient brew day!
 
Or just go buy a 4-pack of DFH! Wait, it's over-rated. Maybe that's a different thread... :confused:


Skagdog said:
so........what you're saying is don't make a starter and don't aerate? or is it do make a starter and don't aerate? wait maybe it's make a starter and aerate. Yeah, it's either that or don't make a starter and do aerate.

Got it, thanks for the advice! :)

^^^^JOKE^^^^

+1 for the diversity of the learning process and developing a personally efficient brew day!
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I think what we all learned here is to stop telling n00bs that their beer has stalled at 1.030 because they didn't aerate with dry yeast. Especially after they tell us it's fermenting at 50f with 5lbs of crystal malt in it.:)
 
I think saying do what works for you is too black and white.Its way too hard to tell if wether or not aerating or not did good or bad for your beer.Oxygen is gennerally good for yeast, ive seen a few brands that say its not neccessary,and people that have no problem with it.Sometimes you dont know whatto do that what works for you,involves whether its pitch rate,starters,aerating,water ph.etc...... Im still not shure but have a good assumption my water has more to do with anything really. But that is not doing what works for me,because i still dont know., In the mean time there is always still good beer to drink. And this post may have just made every body all the dumber for reading it,ha.
 
ClarnoBrewer said:
Or just go buy a 4-pack of DFH! Wait, it's over-rated. Maybe that's a different thread... :confused:
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Yeah ,just dont tell that to Sam. Im seing your dead people too. What? Yah it seemed weird but was somewhat brilliant and dumb at the same time,again,what?
 
Nah, I actually take Sam's side in that one. I was just trying to stir things a little more. Dunno why. This thread has turned into an opportunity to be ridiculous. :mug:

jonmohno said:
Yeah ,just dont tell that to Sam. Im seing your dead people too. What? Yah it seemed weird but was somewhat brilliant and dumb at the same time,again,what?
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I guess I'm a bit late to the party.

Safale us-04 says to sprinkle directly into the wort. It doesn't say anything about rehydrating. I do agree that the instructions are messed up. I don't understand why whitelabs says a vile is good for 5 gallons of 1.060 wort and then works with Jamil with his calculator and a book saying the opposite. I have a hard time believing what they are saying with so many contradictions.

That said, I'll have to try not aerating next time I use dry yeast since people's results seem to back up the no aeration thing. Since it really is all about the beer, use what works.
 

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