NanoBrewery build

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Just thought of something...since the PET bottles are more expensive, maybe offer some sort of "discount" for hikers that show you a park pass (you have to get one a yosemite right?)

Or maybe some sort of "discount" from their next purchase if they bring back the PET bottles they just used, thus saving you some money ;)
 
SteveMillerTime said:
Just thought of something...since the PET bottles are more expensive, maybe offer some sort of "discount" for hikers that show you a park pass (you have to get one a yosemite right?)

Or maybe some sort of "discount" from their next purchase if they bring back the PET bottles they just used, thus saving you some money ;)

I'm not sure I see the point of the first part, but to combine the second idea with the previous poster's idea...

Maybe give a small "discount" on a glass six-pack for people who bring back all their PET bottles (since glass is cheaper anyways) to take home. Maybe even give them a card that's both promotional and allows you to keep track of how many bottles they brought into the park. If they like the beer, they show the card (which you've written down a number on), get a little "discount" on more to take home, and you help keep people from littering in the park, which is good PR too.

If it makes it easier to stomach, you can call it a "deposit" instead.

Just a thought...
 
Thank you all for the good thoughts. I'm going to go with the PET bottles for the stores and glass 12 oz. bottles for the restaurant type businesses.
See, this is why I ask you guys, you give me good, honest feedback! :mug:
 
I talked to the owner of the local market and liquor store and he looked at me sideways when I mentioned plastic bottles and he would prefer the 22oz bottles but is also interested in the plastic. I think I'll start with the 22 oz bombers and then next spring, as it gets closer to camping season, introduce the plastic bottles. This will cut my initial costs down which is the smarter way for me to go right now. Had he reacted a little more positively to the idea of plastic, I would have stuck to selling the PET bottles.
Decisions, decisions....
 
Thats the mass market effect. I'm sure the guys at Oskar Blues, New England, or even Sierra Nevada got sideways looks when they brought their aluminum cans to market. It comes with a little stigma, but you might be able to capitalize on a new trend if you trailblaze it!

Imagine if Metallica brought a pop song to the studio with Katy Perry guest vocals... they would be castrated worse than when Load came out, but if it becomes a smash hit, then who looks silly?
I digress...

Point being that it may be a great niche to get in on, especially with the association with the park/camping.
 
The only thing in plastic bottles over here in Europe is cheap ass Czech swill. I remember that purple crap from Everclear being in plastic bottles and that is pretty much it. They have had many years to put beer in plastic, I'm glad they have not.
 
Imagine if Metallica brought a pop song to the studio with Katy Perry guest vocals... they would be castrated worse than when Load came out, but if it becomes a smash hit, then who looks silly?
I digress...

I can imagine and it would be a hit, and I would never listen to music again. Might even pull a Kurt Cobain!!! I think need a beer just thinking of it. Then what, Iron Maiden and Gaga!!! Oh the humanity!!!:rockin:
 
The local grocery store is going to carry my Porter in 22 oz. bombers which means the Liquor store probably will do the same since it's the same owner.
Time to start brewing on the 1 bbl system.

1 bbl brew day.jpg
 
That is pretty awesome Hoss. You said you are doing an ale using wild hops from Yosemite, are you going out and gathering those yourself or are you getting a hookup from someone in the valley? Also any clue what they are, estimated AA?
 
That is pretty awesome Hoss. You said you are doing an ale using wild hops from Yosemite, are you going out and gathering those yourself or are you getting a hookup from someone in the valley? Also any clue what they are, estimated AA?

I have one brew that I do with the wild hops and I won't be getting those hops anymore. No clue as to their AA.
 
Well that sucks. I am prepping to head back to school next week but the wife is interested in heading your way eventually and see what you go going. Is the new cold room finished and do you have any pictures. I am looking to retrofit my shop and could use some ideas. Might just frame an area and insulate the hell out of it as i don't think I will need the full 1200 sqft at this point.
 
Well that sucks. I am prepping to head back to school next week but the wife is interested in heading your way eventually and see what you go going. Is the new cold room finished and do you have any pictures. I am looking to retrofit my shop and could use some ideas. Might just frame an area and insulate the hell out of it as i don't think I will need the full 1200 sqft at this point.

Let me know when you'll be in the area and you can come out to the brewery for a tasting.
Here's the cold room.

Cold Room 1.jpg

Cold room 2.jpg

Cold room 3.jpg
 
That looks great. So jealous!!!! I will let you know for sure but it will be a bit. I got screwed into needing more classes to graduate so my workload increased by another 3 units and we have the baby coming any time now so life will be crazy till December. I will drop you a line and keep living the dream.
 
I'm bar coded and in the grocery store and a mini-mart. Hitt'n the big time now. :D
Delivered another 2 cases of Porter to the restaurant. Bartender told me some gal sat down and had 3 of my Porters. Someone likes it. :drunk:
 
Still dialing in the 1 bbl system. Problem with summertime is the warmth of the water. Even with the Therminator in ice water I still couldn't get down to pitching temperature. Minor technicalities that I'll just have to figure out.

1 bbl brew day.jpg
 
Hoss, are those fermenters and cold room new? Maybe I missed a page somewhere.

I got those awhile ago. So far I've only completed the fittings on one of them but I have all the fittings. I just want to be sure where to put the upper outlet so I don't waste any brew but also don't get a lot of yeast in it.
 
HBHoss said:
I got those awhile ago. So far I've only completed the fittings on one of them but I have all the fittings. I just want to be sure where to put the upper outlet so I don't waste any brew but also don't get a lot of yeast in it.

Can't you run off the yeast til you get to clean beer if it's too low? I don't have any experience with conicals...
 
Can you do a tasting room where people can buy by the pint? That's the best way to create cash flow. How about cask ale? Here is a link on a video I did on how we are making it.
Cheers,
Tom
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Can't you run off the yeast til you get to clean beer if it's too low? I don't have any experience with conicals...

Yes, you can run the yeast off using the bottom fitting, which I do before clearing the top fitting. I think where I placed it is going to work for me so I'll finish the other conicals soon.
 
Can you do a tasting room where people can buy by the pint? That's the best way to create cash flow. How about cask ale? Here is a link on a video I did on how we are making it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wEfDNpvkog
Cheers,
Tom

Up until recently I didn't have the production to support buying by the pint plus the state told me I wasn't allowed to have tables and chairs based on the type 23 license that I have. People tend to want to sit down to enjoy a pint. Now that I've finally ramped up production I could handle selling pints but that doesn't get me around the no tables and chairs thing. Besides, the tasting room just wasn't paying for itself.
EDIT: You could sell pint sized "Tasters" since in Calif. they don't specify the amount of a taster. ;)
 
the more i see this, the more i want to drive down and say hey, but it's 13 hours away. any cheap hotels and stuff near by? it'd be tempting to plan the trip next year though! i'd love to get out and do some road tripping.
 
the more i see this, the more i want to drive down and say hey, but it's 13 hours away. any cheap hotels and stuff near by? it'd be tempting to plan the trip next year though! i'd love to get out and do some road tripping.

Now that we're into the "off-season", there's probably some good deals at any of the local hotels and motels.
 
Up until recently I didn't have the production to support buying by the pint plus the state told me I wasn't allowed to have tables and chairs based on the type 23 license that I have. People tend to want to sit down to enjoy a pint. Now that I've finally ramped up production I could handle selling pints but that doesn't get me around the no tables and chairs thing. Besides, the tasting room just wasn't paying for itself.
EDIT: You could sell pint sized "Tasters" since in Calif. they don't specify the amount of a taster. ;)

Hey Hoss,
Are you sure about the "no tables and chairs" restriction? I know of plenty of small breweries in CA that are only a tasting room. They have tables and chairs. These are NOT brewpubs, just tasting rooms. You might want to talk to the CA Small Brewers Assoc. about that one.
 
Hey Hoss,
Are you sure about the "no tables and chairs" restriction? I know of plenty of small breweries in CA that are only a tasting room. They have tables and chairs. These are NOT brewpubs, just tasting rooms. You might want to talk to the CA Small Brewers Assoc. about that one.

I have tried to get the ABC to answer that question but they haven't returned my calls. I did find an interview with Hess Brewing regarding tasting rooms and this was his reply: "
I don't know if I'm going to get in trouble saying this, but is a tasting room like a bar?

HESS: It is similar to a bar, but there are a few caveats. We don't have any chairs. So you can't sit down. Can't have any table cams. So out goes the pool and the darts. But other than that, it's similar."


Now, he doesn't say it's against the ABC regulations but it sounds similar to what I've heard from the ABC. One person said it was a county regulation and that it's possible I can have tables and chairs. I need to pin the ABC down with a definitive answer to this. It's almost like it's a gray area that the ABC doesn't want to have to police and they just let it go until someone complains or something.
 
HBHoss said:
The local grocery store is going to carry my Porter in 22 oz. bombers which means the Liquor store probably will do the same since it's the same owner.
Time to start brewing on the 1 bbl system.

:rockin: :mug: awesome news Hoss!
 
All 1032 posts over 2 days. I am EXHAUSTED! Great feel-good story.

Can I ask you a couple of specific questions? If you aren't comfortable answering, I understand.

1) What volume are you consistently selling on a monthly basis?

B) After your loan payment, materials cost etc. What are you profiting (ballpark) per month? Does this include any kind of wages for you?

-) I've looked at bottling but by the time you pay for the bottles, labels, product and labor it seems really prohibitive. Clearly you have found a way to make that model work for you, right?

*) What are you doing to reduce or eliminate the sediment at the bottom of your bottles? (I assume you are bottle conditioning.) Do you filter before bottling or is the sediment at the bottom a "feature" instead of a "bug".

I would love to start a small nano and build it as you have, but my business plan numbers indicate that the best way to 'pay for the business' is with a small taproom. However this adds a good deal of overhead in terms of rent (as you discovered) and employees to man it. Perhaps I should take a page (or 104 pages) from you and back off on the taproom idea and focus more on small scale bottle and keg distributing.

Thanks for giving us all a happy story. They are much more pleasant than the sea of "You're DOOOOOMED." things we generally see and hear whenever we start seriously thinking about tackling this business.
 
All 1032 posts over 2 days. I am EXHAUSTED! Great feel-good story.

Can I ask you a couple of specific questions? If you aren't comfortable answering, I understand.

1) What volume are you consistently selling on a monthly basis?

B) After your loan payment, materials cost etc. What are you profiting (ballpark) per month? Does this include any kind of wages for you?

-) I've looked at bottling but by the time you pay for the bottles, labels, product and labor it seems really prohibitive. Clearly you have found a way to make that model work for you, right?

*) What are you doing to reduce or eliminate the sediment at the bottom of your bottles? (I assume you are bottle conditioning.) Do you filter before bottling or is the sediment at the bottom a "feature" instead of a "bug".

I would love to start a small nano and build it as you have, but my business plan numbers indicate that the best way to 'pay for the business' is with a small taproom. However this adds a good deal of overhead in terms of rent (as you discovered) and employees to man it. Perhaps I should take a page (or 104 pages) from you and back off on the taproom idea and focus more on small scale bottle and keg distributing.

Thanks for giving us all a happy story. They are much more pleasant than the sea of "You're DOOOOOMED." things we generally see and hear whenever we start seriously thinking about tackling this business.

Thank you for sticking it out and reading the whole story.
I do not have a consistent monthly volume yet as I'm trying to add more accounts as time allows. The restaurant is going through about a case a week and time will tell on the grocery store.
Profit? Hmmmm, I've heard that term before but I'll have to look up its definition. :) Right now I'm selling to get my name out there more than I am to gain a profit. I'm hoping as word spreads I'll be able to sell enough to actually turn a profit. It started out well, then it seems as soon as I took out the loan and expanded the brewery the tourist industry died. Murphys' law in action.
It's about $.32/bottle and $.10/label. Labor is not that much, unless like me your bottles get their tarp blown off during a storm and they get real dirty because of it. :eek: The majority of sites that are willing to carry my beer want bottles. Plus, I think keg washing and line maintenance would be more labor intensive than bottling. Bottling, you fill then sell and forget about it.
I keg condition then bottle from the keg so no sediment to deal with. I also don't filter. If I did bottle condition, it would be a feature and not a negative.
I had an opportunity to get into a tasting room with my brother which allowed me to get some exposure to the locals, even though I don't feel as if I had much local support, but now the overhead is out weighing the benefit. I think if you have the money and can advertise a lot and throw the occasional festival or street fair that really seems to help. I don't have the deep pockets for that kind or business strategy nor can I afford employees. My son is taking an interest in the business so that helps. Perhaps in the future I may collaborate with another brewery and get some more exposure with them.
My brewery is kinda off the beaten path but if someone wants to make the drive out here I'll be more than happy to do tastings and sell some bottles. It would just have to be by appointment.

There are various ways to approach having a business like this and my hope is that people can look at my example and either follow it or realize they want to go a different direction. Kind of like parenting, your kids can either look at you as an example to follow or an example of what NOT to do. :cross:
Good luck to you!
 
HBHoss said:
I have tried to get the ABC to answer that question but they haven't returned my calls. I did find an interview with Hess Brewing regarding tasting rooms and this was his reply: "
I don't know if I'm going to get in trouble saying this, but is a tasting room like a bar?

HESS: It is similar to a bar, but there are a few caveats. We don't have any chairs. So you can't sit down. Can't have any table cams. So out goes the pool and the darts. But other than that, it's similar."

Now, he doesn't say it's against the ABC regulations but it sounds similar to what I've heard from the ABC. One person said it was a county regulation and that it's possible I can have tables and chairs. I need to pin the ABC down with a definitive answer to this. It's almost like it's a gray area that the ABC doesn't want to have to police and they just let it go until someone complains or something.

I'm working on a Nano down in San Diego. I know a lot if people down here. Including Mike Hess and some other owners. There are no laws saying that you cannot have chairs or tables. However it can be a condition of you type 23 if local or state agencies make it so. Each license is different and specific. Almost all of the tasting rooms in town have tables and almost all the new ones have chairs. There are about 20 tasting rooms in town now.

Now that local police and agencies know about how tasting rooms work it is less of a concern. I know hours of operation was a factor at one point too but that seems to be changing also.

Contacting ABC for this is not a bad idea. But you will get different answers from different people and enforcement.

We are going to have tables but no chairs for business reasons. Unless it becomes a condition of our license. We are not asking if we can. Since there is precedent already for tables and chairs in San Diego and with Cali ABC.
 
If you are trying to figure numbers you can shoot me an e mail and I can forward a spreadsheet I made up some years ago. It looks like a mess but it is easy to use. Numbers in red are formulas. Just plug in whatever numbers you want and it will tell you if you will make money or not, including bottling, rent, employees, cost of equipment and so forth. I am off to the GABF today so I may not be able to respond as quickly as I would like for the next few days. I will be driving a firkin over about 4 mountain passes and hope that it doesn't pop on me as it will be sitting in the passenger seat. I am doing a seminar Saturday night there. Sorry to get sidetracked. I will also see if there is a way I can just post the spreadsheet on this forum.
Cheers, Tom - [email protected]
Colorado Boy Brewery
 
If you are trying to figure numbers you can shoot me an e mail and I can forward a spreadsheet I made up some years ago. It looks like a mess but it is easy to use. Numbers in red are formulas. Just plug in whatever numbers you want and it will tell you if you will make money or not, including bottling, rent, employees, cost of equipment and so forth. I am off to the GABF today so I may not be able to respond as quickly as I would like for the next few days. I will be driving a firkin over about 4 mountain passes and hope that it doesn't pop on me as it will be sitting in the passenger seat. I am doing a seminar Saturday night there. Sorry to get sidetracked. I will also see if there is a way I can just post the spreadsheet on this forum.
Cheers, Tom - [email protected]
Colorado Boy Brewery

Thank you. Spreadsheets are always a good thing to have around. Good luck with the seminar.
 
What better way to kill the afternoon off at work than to read a 104-page thread. Thanks so much Hoss for keeping this updated and providing wisdom for us HB'ers and followers.
I'm just getting started in the process of moving my HB towards a professional operation. What I say started, I really mean started. I've been in touch with our city's economic development commission to simply test the waters of interested. I got a reply requesting a meeting within minutes of sending the email.
I've started reviewing the confusing TX laws here regarding Brewery vs Brewpub and have yet to decide which direction to go. I'll be creating a business plan over the next couple of weeks and have lots of support (both emotionally and financial) from friends.

This thread is such an inspiration. Again - thanks
 
I am in the pre-pre-pre-pre-planning stages of doing this as well. Got two places I know I could sell the product. But this is a lot of good info on what I need to really look at.
 
Back
Top