N00B @ kegs

So I bought a ball lock keg set up recently and am having a hell of a time trying to get it to carb. What am I doing wrong?? I cleaned / sanitized my keg, filled w/ beer and put my regulator @ 30 psi an rocked back and forth for a count of about 100 (after purging oxygen). Let sit for about 24 hrs on 30psi. No matter how I get my serving pressure down to about 5 psi, my beer is flat. I purged the pressure out of the keg down to 5, I also turned my gas off lowered my pressure and purged my line and it's still flat but all head.
It's a delicious beer that would be great if it had carbonation.... Any thoughts?!?
Thanks for your time
::cheers::

do you hear gas flowing into the keg? was the keg at the correct temperature when you did the shaking?

there is no magic about carbonation, there are only two variables you need to measure temperature and pressure... if you have the right pressure and temperature, you will carbonate the beer.

jmlivingston10 said:

it's still flat but all head.

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If beer is flat but you have a lot of foam, it means the CO2 is going out of solution. This can happen if:
* beer is over carbonated
* your beer lines/shangk/faucet are warm (if it is the case, the second beer in a row should be better)
* your beer lines are too short to keep the CO2 in solution. You can have a look at the forum stickies on how to balance a system.

You probably have a mix of point 1 and point 3. This is what can happen when shaking under 30psi.

I have found that the high pressure/shaking keg to carbonate is a poor and inconsistent way of carbonating a beer. From the sounds of it, having all foam, your beer is over carbonated. Which is what generally happens when you pump the pressure way up and shake it. Try turning the gas off and release the keg pressure and let it sit for a day or so, then check back. The foam should have gone down, and if it is still flat, pump the pressure to 12-15psi and let it sit for a couple days to recarb.
In my opinion, the best way to carb a keg is just set it to 13-15 psi and forget about it for 3-4 days. Remember... Patience is KEY in brewing. Don't rush it, or it will taste like doody and you'll get frustrated

It just needs more time....be patient. Here's my process......30 psi for 48 hours (no rocking or shaking the hell out of the keg!), then turn off CO2 to the keg, purge the pressure off of the keg, then set it at 11 psi for a week. You need to make sure there are no leaks in your system (a little dish soap and water and saturate all of your connections, poppets, etc. looking of bubbles = leaks). Be patient....give it time to carb. up. Even after 48 hrs. at 30 psi, my beers are nowhere near carbed up. It takes the extra week or so to fully carb up, sometimes longer. What kind of a set up do you have....kegerator, coffin keezer, collar keezer?

Several things can cause foaming (serving pressure>beer line resistance/warm beer lines and shanks/overcarbonation, etc.), but regardless it seems that after a day or two, your beer just hasn't had enough time to carbonate fully and what carbonation you do have is coming out of solution. Give it another week at 11 psi or check the chart for whatever CO2 volume your looking for and it will fully carbonate as long as your system is air tight without leaks. Also make sure your system is balanced and beer lines are cold.

Thanks for the info guys, I'm going to remove the beer tonight and try it again. I don't think the foam problem is because of over carb, because it's still completely flat... My serving line is just the picnic tap, and I have left it off the keg in room temp (65 -70 ish?), so that might be part of the problem... I am using a regular fridge that I drilled a hole in and was running my gas line through the side... Could that be part of the problem too?
:cheers:
:-D

I'm also new to kegging beer and just bought my single tap tower kegerator and 5 gallon ball lock corny keg, so I'm going to piggy-back off this post. I'm doing the "set and forget" method at 12-15psi for about 2 weeks and have had it kegged and under pressure since Monday night. However Tuesday night I thought I had frozen my beer line, or keg, as I couldn't get anything to come out of the tap (just a little drip). I opened the door to the kegerator and it was clearly not below freezing (cold, but not freezing) nor had the keg been in long enough to freeze even a little bit. I took the keg out and shook it a little to see if I could hear the beer sloshing around, I could. My beer line was visibly pressurized and full with beautiful beer. I disconnected and reconnected my beer and gas line and was able to get a full pour from it. My question to add to this post would be - what would cause that? Has anyone else run into this situation during carbing?

Also seperate to that - Can I carb a beer in a 2nd keg by pressurizing it to 15psi disconnecting and letting it sit in my kegerator for 2 weeks? I'm thinking this should theoretically work if there's no leaks to the keg, right? I don't have the ability to tap two beers at the same time with my tower/regulator setup, but I can certainly keg and pressurize a 2nd corny and let it sit 2 weeks. This way when my tapped keg is spent it'll be ready to be tapped. Or does it need to be connected to Co2 for the entire 2 weeks of carbing?

Also seperate to that - Can I carb a beer in a 2nd keg by pressurizing it to 15psi disconnecting and letting it sit in my kegerator for 2 weeks? I'm thinking this should theoretically work if there's no leaks to the keg, right? I don't have the ability to tap two beers at the same time with my tower/regulator setup, but I can certainly keg and pressurize a 2nd corny and let it sit 2 weeks. This way when my tapped keg is spent it'll be ready to be tapped. Or does it need to be connected to Co2 for the entire 2 weeks of carbing?[/QUOTE]

Nope....won't work. The 15 psi of CO2 in the head space will gradually go into solution to equalize. It will not carb your beer sufficiently. You need it under constant pressure to fully carbonate the beer over time. You could however rack your beer into a keg with priming sugar, purge out the O2 with CO2, and then store someplace, unrefrigerated, as it naturally carbs up.

Joncb04 said:

Also seperate to that - Can I carb a beer in a 2nd keg by pressurizing it to 15psi disconnecting and letting it sit in my kegerator for 2 weeks? I'm thinking this should theoretically work if there's no leaks to the keg, right? I don't have the ability to tap two beers at the same time with my tower/regulator setup, but I can certainly keg and pressurize a 2nd corny and let it sit 2 weeks. This way when my tapped keg is spent it'll be ready to be tapped. Or does it need to be connected to Co2 for the entire 2 weeks of carbing?

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I don't think it works that way, as the CO2 dissolves into the beer, you lose the pressure head on the beer. As an example, the dissolving process might equalize with the beer absorbing enough CO2 to leave only 5 psi of pressure head on the beer, and stop there. Meaning you won't be getting all the pressure you desire in the beer. And with the pressure dropping, you are more prone to opening up small leaks in the tank.

At least that is my understanding. As a potential workaround, you could give your keg a booster shot of gas every couple days and I would think that would be enough to keep the pressure head high enough to dissolve CO2 into the beer.

Hoppopotomus said:

Nope....won't work. The 15 psi of CO2 in the head space will gradually go into solution to equalize. It will not carb your beer sufficiently. You need it under constant pressure to fully carbonate the beer over time. You could however rack your beer into a keg with priming sugar, purge out the O2 with CO2, and then store someplace, unrefrigerated, as it naturally carbs up.

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That's what I expected to hear back and was what I was thinking in the back of my mind. Thanks for the quick responses on that.

Does anyone know what might be up with my first question/issue?

One though.....maybe sediment that fell out of suspension as you cold crashed the beer formed on the floor of the keg and clogged the dip tube. Then when you took it out and sloshed it around, it dislodged and started a better flow of beer? Just a though.

jmlivingston10 said:

I don't think the foam problem is because of over carb, because it's still completely flat...

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That seems to make sense, but isn't how it actually works out in reality.

Overcarbed == Foam.
Foam == co2 knocked out of solution.
co2 knocked out of solution == Flat beer.

So, overcarbed beer, depending on specific conditions, can definitely result in flat beer in the glass.

You can also take the above series of equations and replace "overcarbed" with "beer line too short", and get the same result. Or replace it with "beer too cold", "beer too warm", "frosty mug stored in freezer", etc.... Lots of things can cause foam, but pretty much anything what does cause foam will also result in flat beer.

And from one impatient homebrewer to another, you have to always remember that patience is your friend. Beer absorbs enough co2 to get foamy very, very fast. It takes a bit longer to actually have it taste carbonated. (Although, you can still get a 5 gallon cornie pretty darn close to proper carbonation in 24 hours if you're careful)

Hoppopotomus said:

One though.....maybe sediment that fell out of suspension as you cold crashed the beer formed on the floor of the keg and clogged the dip tube. Then when you took it out and sloshed it around, it dislodged and started a better flow of beer? Just a though.

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Yeah, that's possible. I wouldn't think that'd be the case seeing as most of the sediment had already been removed through secondary fermentation/settling, I also use a screen to filter out any large particles when I transfer to fermentor... There was also no visible sediment in the glass I was able to pour or in the beer line. It was a pretty clear pour. I'd think it'd have to be pretty visible sediment to clog the dip tube, but then again you never know. I'm at a loss, but I'm just going to wait for my baby to carbonate and I'll see if I have the problem again. Thanks for all the help... Loving this forum!

Should I keep my keg in the fridge to carb? Should I get a longer beer line/ keep it refrigerated?

jmlivingston10 said:

Should I keep my keg in the fridge to carb? Should I get a longer beer line/ keep it refrigerated?

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To carb? YES, keep it in the fridge. Cold liquid absorbs co2 faster than warm liquid.

As far as length of beer line, that doesn't matter until you're ready to serve the beer. At that point, assuming 3/16th line, then 1 foot per PSI is a good starting point from which you can tweak things out.....

My gas line is about 5' and my serving line is about 4'. Does that mean my serving line is too short?

It might have been stuck because the beer out was under the cold air duct in the fridge and it just froze that little bit at the top of the beer hose. It happened to me once. Just a thought.

jmlivingston10 said:

My gas line is about 5' and my serving line is about 4'. Does that mean my serving line is too short?

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Gas line length doesn't matter. Serving line length does. A 5' line is prone to aggravating the user and inspiring him/her to start "Yet Another Foaming Pour" thread here, as it doesn't provide enough resistance to the beer flowing to keep the carbonation in the beer, so it will "break out" and cause foam at the faucet.

You will rarely read a "Help! Foamy Pour!" thread started by someone using 10' 3/16" ID beer lines...

Cheers!

I was wondering why my pour was always so fast.. Thanks friend! I suppose purchasing a 10' beer line is in order.

So would everyone agree probably the easiest and best way to carb is around 10-12 psi for 14 days?

jmlivingston10 said:

I was wondering why my pour was always so fast.. Thanks friend! I suppose purchasing a 10' beer line is in order.

So would everyone agree probably the easiest and best way to carb is around 10-12 psi for 14 days?

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Absolutely! Set and forget. Never shake

jmlivingston10 said:

[...]So would everyone agree probably the easiest and best way to carb is around 10-12 psi for 14 days?

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Ahahahaha! There's like zero chance of getting everyone here to even agree the planet is spherical and there are folks here that swear by the shake 'n' bake "burst carb" method and will defend it to the death.

But for consistent results and never ending up having to outgas an overcharged keg, the so called "set and forget" method is hard to beat. Find the appropriate carb pressure for your serving temp and style of brew using any of the on-line calculators, set your regulator accordingly and let the keg sit for a couple of weeks. And use the time to figure out how to extend your pipeline so you never have an empty faucet

Cheers!

day_trippr said:

But for consistent results and never ending up having to outgas an overcharged keg, the so called "set and forget" method is hard to beat.

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Well, yeah, that's true. But if you use that method you'll be drinking beer in two weeks. If you're willing to shake things up a bit, you could be enjoying a nice, frosty, delicious homebrew tomorrow....

subliminalurge said:

Well, yeah, that's true. But if you use that method you'll be drinking beer in two weeks. If you're willing to shake things up a bit, you could be enjoying a nice, frosty, delicious homebrew tomorrow....

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But that's why it's all about the pipeline, brew more and more often...

tbergmania said:

But that's why it's all about the pipeline, brew more and more often...

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Exactly. Of course that would cut the thread count here by like 50%

Cheers!

That's the sad part of new brewers like myself. We are still working up our pipeline. I only have 4 cases of finished brew right now. Just got my kegging setup so will be kegging my first batch once my new batch finishes in the fermentor. So, it's starting, but slowly. Damn things needing to take so long for a newbie to get beer :-(

day_trippr said:

the planet is spherical

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WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Still having problems with carbonation... I got 10' of gas line and am still to carb my beer with the sit and forget method.. Comments?

jmlivingston10 said:

Still having problems with carbonation... I got 10' of gas line and am still to carb my beer with the sit and forget method.. Comments?

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The length of the gas line doesn't matter a bit- it could be 2 inches long and be fine as long as you can reach the keg with it!

If you have your fridge set at 40 degrees and your psi set at 12 degrees, the beer MUST be carbed correctly within two weeks. That's just physics, and if it's not carbing up, then the problem is either the temperature, the regulator, or a leak in the keg.

Not sure what the exact temp of the fridge is. Might be a bit warmer than 42, also I lowered my pressure to 5 psi for serving because that's why my lhbs said. Should I just leave it at 12 for serving and carbing?

jmlivingston10 said:

Not sure what the exact temp of the fridge is. Might be a bit warmer than 42, also I lowered my pressure to 5 psi for serving because that's why my lhbs said. Should I just leave it at 12 for serving and carbing?

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Absolutely. Check the temperature in the fridge with any old thermometer, and then go to a carbonation chart to make sure 12 psi is high enough.

Turning down the psi for serving is silly, if you ask me. First, the only reason to do that is because the system isn't balanced. Balance the system (lengthen the lines, generally) and you get a perfect pour at 12 psi. In my case, I have 5 kegs. Can you imagine I want Beer A, so I turn off the gas, lower the psi, pour a beer. Then I want Beer C, so I do it for that keg? Then try to remember to turn them both back up after serving, so they don't go flat?!?! But what about the other three kegs? What if I want to drink a beer from one of those taps?
That would make me crazy! If your LHBS suggested it, they don't know what they are talking about! "Set it and forget it" is just that. Once your system is balanced, you'd never turn it up or down unless you had a specific reason (say a much higher carbed beer). But I serve all my beers at the same pressure almost always.

What is this carb chart you speak of, and where can I get one? Can I just google search it and print it off the internetz?

jmlivingston10 said:

What is this carb chart you speak of, and where can I get one? Can I just google search it and print it off the internetz?

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There's a bazillion of them on the interweb, just Google "keg carbonation chart", but this one is pretty

Cheers!

Still having troubles guys.
If I force carb at 30 psi and lower 5 for serving through my 10' line I get all head and no carb; if I sit and forget for two weeks at 12 psi I get no carb and no head. Wtf am I doing wrong????? Fridge temp is about 40 degrees

jmlivingston10 said:

Still having troubles guys.
If I force carb at 30 psi and lower 5 for serving through my 10' line I get all head and no carb; if I sit and forget for two weeks at 12 psi I get no carb and no head. Wtf am I doing wrong????? Fridge temp is about 40 degrees

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if 2 weeks at at 12 psi on an average OG beer is not carbing then I think you have a leak in your system.

check the connection where the gas coupling meets the keg post, check the lid for leaks. make sure the gas popper is not stuck and is allowing gas into the keg

-=Jason=-

That's what I thought too, but I can't find one, and my gas isn't dropping rapidly like I thought it would.
Btw, recipe was 4# German pils, 4# wheat, 1# flaked oats, 1 oz hallertauer and wyeast 3068

jmlivingston10 said:

Still having troubles guys.
If I force carb at 30 psi and lower 5 for serving through my 10' line I get all head and no carb; if I sit and forget for two weeks at 12 psi I get no carb and no head. Wtf am I doing wrong????? Fridge temp is about 40 degrees

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You said you have 10' of line. Earlier you mentioned that it was 10' of gas line. That isn't what you want you want 10' of line between the keg and faucet. It is my understanding that the pressure drops roughly 1 PSI per 2'. So lets say you have your PSI at 6-7 and push it 10' it will drop to 1-2 PSI as it comes out of the faucet. This keeps it flowing nicely and prevents it from getting blasted out too fast which will cause the beer to loose the carbonation. The length of the gas line really doesn't matter. Make it long enough to give you enough to work with and you are good. It is the line carrying the beer that is important.

I meant 10' of serving line, not gas. My bad.

Question. My Milk chocolate stout is ready to be kegged, but I wont be serving it until mid January for a party. I dont mind kegging it, hooking it up to the gas and leaving it at 11psi, however I am concerned this may over carbonate the beer? Is that too much time to be exposed to co2? I want to take the beer out of secondary because it has some flavor elements in it that I dont want to overpower the beer if left in there for too long. Can I keg the beer and wait for a later date to carbonate it? Or should I rack it again and leave it in a carboy until I get closer to serving time? Will it be fine left in the fridge and hooked to co2 if i do keg it now?

Your probably asking yourself why i brewed it so early to begin with, part bad planning, part being that my brewing schedule is pretty full already anyway. Any advice would be appreciated.